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Re: I'm speechless
[Re: Blackstone]
#38034
03/19/08 03:26 PM
03/19/08 03:26 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
This guy is a HOOT! He claims that the $50 paint job is a myth, but that you can get professional results for just a bit more by simply buying his DVD... borrowing a compressor... and a paint gun... and a garage.
He even links you to a site where a guy got amazing results with rolled Rustoleum to prove that rolled Rustoleum doesn't work... Huh?
http://www.easypaintyourcar.com/CarPainting/fiftydollarmyth.html
"1) Paint the car the same or similar color.
2) Borrow an HVLP gun and compressor.
3) Buy the paint. Your cost? $31 for a quart of great quality single stage urethane paint. $13 for activator (hardener) $10 for reducer (thinner). Okay guys, get out your calculator. Uh, $55. If you decide to do a radically different color, you may need a little more paint."
He makes it sound like my only neighbor, a 78 year old widow, has a HLVP gun and a air compressor for me to borrow.
Neil Slade Method<69chargeryeehaa method
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Re: I'm speechless
#38035
03/19/08 04:10 PM
03/19/08 04:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220
toronto canada
69chargeryeehaa
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220
toronto canada
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Quote:
Quote:
This guy is a HOOT! He claims that the $50 paint job is a myth, but that you can get professional results for just a bit more by simply buying his DVD... borrowing a compressor... and a paint gun... and a garage.
He even links you to a site where a guy got amazing results with rolled Rustoleum to prove that rolled Rustoleum doesn't work... Huh?
http://www.easypaintyourcar.com/CarPainting/fiftydollarmyth.html
"1) Paint the car the same or similar color.
2) Borrow an HVLP gun and compressor.
3) Buy the paint. Your cost? $31 for a quart of great quality single stage urethane paint. $13 for activator (hardener) $10 for reducer (thinner). Okay guys, get out your calculator. Uh, $55. If you decide to do a radically different color, you may need a little more paint."
He makes it sound like my only neighbor, a 78 year old widow, has a HLVP gun and a air compressor for me to borrow.
Neil Slade Method<69chargeryeehaa method
not to mention primer and primer sealer, and the reducers (hardener) for all of it. plus urethane paint is hard to lay down.
I used duplicolor paint on one car, probably the cheapest paint you can buy, it was single stage acrylic enamel, supplies cost me about $300, for the paint, primer, primer sealer, and reducers. I don't know what paint this guy is referring to, but any auto paint that cheap is bound to be CRAP.... plus you need a decent compressor to shoot using HVLP, over 7scfm at 40psi minimum, which usually works out to be 7+HP and over a 50gal tank, unless you like to paint and stop alot to let the compressor catch up...been there done that....   
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Re: I'm speechless
[Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
#38036
03/19/08 07:30 PM
03/19/08 07:30 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Re: I'm speechless
#38037
03/19/08 09:41 PM
03/19/08 09:41 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
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Quote:
hey Charger i checked out his site and he is so full of crap i have a 69 chevelle that i rolled when i first read this thread about a year ago and you did a damned good job at showing us how and yes i am a painter 14yr pro (cars,houses,anything that will accept paint)so hats off to you for leading the way 
Sadly I wasted a few minutes visiting that guy's crappy site. Maybe he should spend a few of the bucks he has generated from flogging his DVD to get someone to build him a less childish looking web site. My first overall impression of his site was 'snake oil salesman'. But it is all the non-car painting crap on his site that totally detracts from me taking him serious or even being slightly motivated to part with my money to buy his DVD.
ANYONE can find books on autobody work and spray painting. Oddly enough there are no books on the $50 roller paint job method ( although I bet that Hot Rod magazine saw their sales shoot through the roof when they did that eight page article putting the roller method to the test on their project Falcon ).
Now... I am not going to flame the spray method. It can produce good results and of that there is no doubt. But it's cost is definitely not in the $50 paint job league.
As well, the spray method is not as forgiving IF you make mistakes along the way. The roller method allows you to slow down the process where a mistake can be corrected and the paint job continued.
Possibly he chose to deliberately not mention the Interlux Brightside marine paint part of this thread - because that would have pitted a polyurathane paint job directly against his polyurathane paint job for shine and durability.
Oh well... the Internet is full of snake oil opportunist who hope to make their fortune flogging some odd crap to the gullible. Have you ever seen on E-Bay where some LOSER cuts pages out of old car magazines and trys to sell the full page advertisements to some enthusiast ? A sucker born every minute.
But probably what Charger noted is the best way to sum up that guy's attempt to make money selling his DVD... and that is that this message thread and the roller process was posted FOR FREE and no one here has made any money trying to sell this process or method. I tend to trust the folks who do something or share something for the love of it... over the snake oil salesman whose only motivation is to make some coin...
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Re: I'm speechless
#38038
03/19/08 11:08 PM
03/19/08 11:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,405
Southern, Ca.
69DartGT
OP
moparts member
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OP
moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,405
Southern, Ca.
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Quote:
hey Charger i checked out his site and he is so full of crap i have a 69 chevelle that i rolled when i first read this thread about a year ago and you did a damned good job at showing us how and yes i am a painter 14yr pro (cars,houses,anything that will accept paint)so hats off to you for leading the way
I'm not sure exactlly where it is but this site has been posted here before and didn't receive much support those times either, guys just came off wrong for the people here I guess.
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Re: I'm speechless
[Re: Marq]
#38039
03/20/08 06:07 AM
03/20/08 06:07 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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On the leadup to painting my car using the roller method I came across that guys pathetic website somehow... I LOL'd... Anyway I'm still working on my car and I reckon I'll have it finished over the next week or so. I've attached a pic when I pulled it out of the shed and gave it a dust off, looks great out in the sun. More pics on my web page. Cheers
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Re: I'm speechless
[Re: Blackstone]
#38041
03/20/08 09:55 AM
03/20/08 09:55 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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looking good, wilso! how many coats you got on it so far?
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Re: I'm speechless
#38042
03/20/08 11:43 AM
03/20/08 11:43 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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out of sheer boredom, I created this.  This is how I lay down my paint. I paint the edges first(green) and then "fan out" the paint(red). Stupid question but is there an "Actual" method to rolling paint?
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Re: I'm speechless
[Re: 69DartGT]
#38044
03/20/08 03:36 PM
03/20/08 03:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 49
Maine
Blackstone
member
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member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 49
Maine
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Quote:
I'm not sure exactlly where it is but this site has been posted here before and didn't receive much support those times either, guys just came off wrong for the people here I guess.
Funny, I was browsing these threads today and it turns out that Neil himself was in here peddling his system and trashing ours. As one can imagine... most of that discussion was deleted.
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Re: I'm speechless
#38045
03/20/08 06:56 PM
03/20/08 06:56 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
looking good, wilso! how many coats you got on it so far?
Thanks guys for your comments.
In those pics I have 7 coats on the side (finished), 9 on the roof (finished) and 3 on the tailgate (not finished).
Roof isn't made of glass, I think I just got it at a good angle
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Top Secret paint results?
[Re: Blackstone]
#38046
03/20/08 08:11 PM
03/20/08 08:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4
CO
rustyorange78
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member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4
CO
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Hey Blackstone Any more pictures of your results with Top Secret TS-4?
Thanks to this thread, I'm getting ready to make my rusty orange 78 W-150 less rusty and more orange and I would love to be able to order the Sunset Orange TS-4 paint. I have recently finished all of the three threads and I think you are the only active participant who ended up using TS-4. One earlier guy tried the TS-100, didn't like it and switched to Brightside. MontanaMan has not posted back with any results.
You seem to be the only guy who has followed through. Your earlier pieces looked good. Just wondering if you have newer pics or more info.
Thanks in advance to you and to all the others who have made this the best (not to mention longest) forum thread that I have ever seen.
Any other lurkers out there with Top Secret experience?
/**************************************
* Project: 1978 W-150 Extended Cab
*
* Orange and Black
**************************************/
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Re: Top Secret paint results?
[Re: rustyorange78]
#38047
03/20/08 09:47 PM
03/20/08 09:47 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 49
Maine
Blackstone
member
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member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 49
Maine
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Unfortunately I have no new developments since I posted my pictures on page 22(thread III). I haven't given up, I just spent the fall building my garage, then it got cold, now all five of my vehicles need bodywork thanks to old man winter. When I shelved the project, I think I had the process pretty well figured out. I checked on my test panel just yesterday, which has sat in direct sunlight exposed to the elements since July. It looks even better than I remembered. From what I've read, the characteristics of the TS-4 are nearly identical to that of Brightside... and man, do they have colors! I'm anxious to do some more rolling once I wrap up a few other misc projects. We should be seeing 50-degree days any time in the next few weeks, which may even help give the paint more time to self-level. I picked up a Wagner that I may experiment with, but I expect I'll like the rolled results better. In any case, I should get a better finish now that I have four walls and a roof between my project and the bugs/weather/dust. Meanwhile, I'll subject my test hood to some gratuitous violence... see how much punishment it can withstand. I'll report back next week to let you know if it talks. 
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Re: I'm speechless
#38048
03/21/08 09:16 AM
03/21/08 09:16 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
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Quote:
Stupid question but is there an "Actual" method to rolling paint?
Once you have worked out 'how much' paint you should have on your roller and the appropriate blend of thinner to paint ratio, there is the actual painting pattern to use when laying on the coats of paint :
When I went to roll each coat on my car, I always followed the same painting pattern.
First I would lay on the horizontal surfaces first : hood, roof and trunk. This way... if there was any drippage or runs, it would dribble to the vertical surfaces.
Once I had my coat on the horizontal surfaces, I would then begin at the drivers rear quarter panel and go to the drivers door, drivers front panel, front bumper area, passenger front panel, passenger door, passenger rear quarter and rear bumper panel.
By following this pattern consistently it allowed me to make sure that all edges were nicely feathered and blended as I transitioned between each panel. But the thing to note is that I completed each panel, going from top to bottom, before moving on to the next panel in the sequence.
The other thought that was always in the back of my mind is this : Normally I was only making small batches of paint, blended with the mineral spirits right in the roller tray. My concern was that the amount of pigment in my paint mix might be slightly higher or lower during a coating, depending on how much mineral spirit I might add to the paint as I rolled. By following the same painting patter each time it ensured that any color transition between panels was so similar that you could not see any color difference between the panels ( even though each panel had been rolled on its own before moving on to the next panel ).
When doing the vertical side surfaces, I always started from the top of the panel. Again the logic being that if there is any running of the paint ( due to me overloading the roller or pushing too hard on the roller ), that gravity would flow it down into the lower areas of the panels which I would next be rolling. So runs never posed a problem because my pattern of painting always took into consideration that 'if' they happened, it would simply be flowing towards where my roller would next be going....
When doing the hood... I usually always started in the center of the hood... I would start by going from the windshield end to the front bumper end. Then I would follow that pattern while working my way out to the side of the hood.
On the trunk... I usually always started from the center of the trunk area nearest to the rear windows AND UNLIKE THE HOOD I would go from one fender side to the other fender side. Then I would follow that pattern while working my way out to the read bumper end.
IF my car had a roof to paint ( its a convertible remember ), I would have started by going from the center front to the center back of the hood. Then I would work my way out following that pattern towards the drivers door side. Then I would go over to the passenger side and work out from the center towards the passenger door.
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Last edited by Marq; 03/21/08 10:25 AM.
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Re: I'm speechless
#38049
03/21/08 10:20 AM
03/21/08 10:20 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 58
MD, USA
v8mirage
member
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member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 58
MD, USA
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Quote:
out of sheer boredom, I created this.
Stupid question but is there an "Actual" method to rolling paint?
I kind of followed Marq's method. So far it has worked very well for me.
As for the pattern that you made on your hood, I would finish up with long strokes, it seemed to make it easier to get rid of the edges and stuff.
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Re: I'm speechless
[Re: v8mirage]
#38050
03/22/08 01:33 AM
03/22/08 01:33 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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damn, i need to go back and take some vocabulary test again. I wasnt looking for a method on rolling paint, i meant pattern. although seems some of you knew what I meant. 
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Am I doing something wrong?
[Re: Marq]
#38051
03/22/08 02:01 PM
03/22/08 02:01 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I have a fiberglass hood that I started to paint using this method. I sanded it with 400 to get rid of the gel coat finish and give something for the paint to adhere to. I wiped the hood down with mieral spirits and made sure it was nice and clean.
I used a 40% mineral spirits mixture with the rustoleum paint. Rolled on a coat, and everything went smooth. I then waited until the next day to roll on another coat. Let that dry for about 10 hrs, I could tell that the coverage was getting darker.
The problem is, that when I went to wet sand with 600, Just about all the paint came off. I thought maybe 600 was too much, so I tried some 800 and the same thing happened.
Am I doing something wrong here?
I just ended up wet sanding with some 600 and getting the whole thing nice and smooth. This took away about 90% of the paint that I layed down.
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Re: Am I doing something wrong?
#38052
03/22/08 08:05 PM
03/22/08 08:05 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Im pretty much having the same issues as sn95stangman is having with burning thru the paint. After sanding the 4th coat with 800g, I burned through a couple of spots already. not much though. I got some pics. I also fell in love with my hood after I hosed it down. I got most of the "shiny" parts off. Just wanted to know if this is fine to paint on  ------------------------------------ Heres the shots I fell in love with after wetting the hood.  ] ------------------------------------  So yea, like I said before, ive burned through a couple of spots before. its only really noticible while the hood is wet. But when its dry, you can barely tell.
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Re: Am I doing something wrong?
#38053
03/23/08 01:14 AM
03/23/08 01:14 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
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Quote:
So yea, like I said before, ive burned through a couple of spots before. its only really noticible while the hood is wet. But when its dry, you can barely tell.
The whole secret to the wet sanding is that the sand paper should have hardly any pressure applied while doing the wet sanding.
What I did to wet sand was buy one of those foamie kneeling pads that gardeners use to get down on their knees and work in their garden. It is a dense foam, usually about 1" to 1 1/2" thick. ( Actually I simply stole the one my wife had bought to work in the garden ). I cut a 4" x 8" chunk out of this knee pad and I would wrap my wet sanding paper around it.
Next. I would take a bucket and shoot about 1 tablespoon of Sunlight liquid dish detergent into the bucket and then add water.
I would next take my foam wrapped with 800 grit wet sanding paper and let it soak in the bucket for a minute or two.
Ok.. so at this point I have a nicely soaked wet sanding paper. I would then take my hose and put the nozzle to a fine mist. I would give the painted surface an initial wetting to get the surface generally wet.
With one hand I would begin wet sanding, while with the other hand I kept the nozzle and the fine mist of water spraying the area that I was wet sanding. This kept the surface I was working on constantly wetted.
NOW... this is the most important thing... the wet sanding should be like a hovercraft on that wetted surface. You should not be really applying much if any pressure to your sanding block. The whole idea of the wet sanding process is to simply skim over the surface letting the sand paper nick off any high points in the overall surface.
The reason I was using a 4 x 8 surface to wrap my sandpaper is to distribute evenly and over a wider surface the sanding process. This lessens the chances of too much of a concentration of sanding on one spot.
Now the only deviation in this process is when you are working on the edges ( whether they are the outer edges of the panel you are working on, or maybe even the edges of any shapes that have been stamped into the metal or fiberglass surface ). At those spots you really do have to lighten up even more and use as little pressure as possible. The high point of the edge will always want to sand down faster then the lower surfaces around it. So just back down on the pressure being applied there.
Ok... so once I have gone over the entire surface I then turn the hose loose at maximum spray and blast the entire surface. The whole point at this point is to try to fully remove any artifacts or 'mud' ( the wet sanded paint that was loosened and mixed with the detergent ).
Hopefully after a good blasting of water during this 'rinse' cycle, there are no contaminants left of the freshly wet sanded surface. I then let it dry thoroughly.
Ok... I should mention at this point, hopefully the water you are spraying the car with does not contain high mineral content or heavy amounts of chlorine ( like some well waters or heavy type waters where you have to use water softeners in it ). If you are stuck in that unfortunate situation, hopefully the next stage will level the playing field for you. The following also applies to those of you who have normal water as well.
Ok... assuming the surface is now thoroughly dried, it is time to take a clean cottony cloth rag ( preferably white ) and pour some mineral spirits on to it and get it good and damp. Next ring out the cloth so that it is not soaked... but overall it is wetted lightly. Now... give the entire surface a good wipe down.
This should do two things...
a ) it will remove any leftover artifacts that the rinsing stage did not get. Your white wiping cloth may show some color being picked up.
b ) it will put a temporary shine on the wet sanded surface. This is kind of cool because you can visually see how that wiped area might look if you had polished and waxed it....
Ok... at this point I would give the surface 30 minutes to an hour to dry and let any of the mineral spirits that were spread on during this wiping stage to fully evaporate.
You could at this point have your paint prepared, rollers at the ready and whatever else you need for adding the next two coats of paint. You could, just prior to applying the next coats run a 'tack' cloth over the surface just to remove any dust, hair, dandruff, bugs or whatever else may have fallen on to the surface during the intervening 30 minutes to an hour.
That is about as sanitized and prepped things are possible. So you should be able to go ahead now and start laying on your next two coats of paint.
PS : That picture of your car hood freshly soaked with water glistened like a mirror. You should be happy. With any bit of luck that is where things will be ending up by the 8th or 10th coat. Water is an invaluable tool at helping us see how things will look at the end of the project.
Marq
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