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Re: New INDY?RHS "X" Heads Tech Article
[Re: Hughes]
#374844
07/14/09 11:59 AM
07/14/09 11:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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just another junk mopar head that won't sell because it's useless and then all the manufactures will look at it and say "small block mopars heads don't sell why would we make a good one?"
Did you guys happen to flow one?
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: New INDY?RHS "X" Heads Tech Article
[Re: B3422W5]
#374847
07/14/09 02:14 PM
07/14/09 02:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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Isn't that the same situation with there own "Iron Ram" heads also?
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: New INDY?RHS "X" Heads Tech Article
[Re: HotRodDave]
#374848
07/14/09 02:49 PM
07/14/09 02:49 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 270
Washington, IL
Hughes
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 270
Washington, IL
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The difference in the Iron Ram head and the INDY /RHS head is that the Iron Ram (EQ hed) has enough material that you can cut the springs seats deep enough to get more installed height. RHS told us that you cannot cut the seats on theirs at all and Indy said they didn't know and they didn't want to give us a head to cut and see how far it could go. We like the heads. they flow good and have a lot of possibilites. They just have to get a better spring package or they are pretty much useless. Stock out of the box flow numbers on our bench are here http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/produ...mp;partid=25681 We haven't spent any time porting them yet but I think they have a good port design. Kevin
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Re: New INDY?RHS "X" Heads Tech Article
[Re: Hughes]
#374849
07/14/09 03:00 PM
07/14/09 03:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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I had a set of the old RHS heads and the ports in all the pics I have seen look identicle. When I had them a friend sonic tested them for me in the spring seat area and I don't remember exact numbers but it was about double what a stock set of magnum heads I had sitting around measured. Those were really nice heads and I almost wish I still had them, they are on Sharpies Demon now.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: New INDY?RHS "X" Heads Tech Article
[Re: S/ST 3040]
#374851
07/14/09 03:31 PM
07/14/09 03:31 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,505
PA
moparacer
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,505
PA
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Are there any plans in the works to correct the castings?
I have a friend the "was" going to use a set of these on a pulling truck class small block but the spring seat issue kills it.....
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: New INDY?RHS "X" Heads Tech Article
[Re: Hughes]
#374853
08/12/09 08:46 AM
08/12/09 08:46 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 235
Central Mississippi
mopar97
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 235
Central Mississippi
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I talked to Jim with Indy while I was at the Mopar Nats. Pointed out to him what the Hughes site was saying about the spring seat and that limiting HP. His response was that the seat could be cut .100 with no problems. 1.625 installed height plus the .100 cut is equal to .1725. Add + .50 retainers and you are at 1.775. Put a + .50 keeper in and you are now at 1.825 Installed height. Are my figures correct? These installed heights should produce the HP plus some that Indy says the heads will make. I know this is my first post on this site so that will make some people suspect my info. I would recommend you call Indy and verify this info with Jim. I have a circle track IMCA modified customer in N.C. whose cylinder head guy is very impressed with these heads. The heads were on display at the Nats and they look pretty good. When this info was posted on Hughes website it caused me to lose the sale of 4 sets my customers had on order. I am trying to dispel bad information here. A person could cut the stock valves to match the RHS/Indy seats put the heads together and everything is a go. ALMOST a true bolt on. I recently had a STOCK set of magnums worked for the class I race, for $600+ more I could have had heads that out of the box would make a bunch more HP. Before anyone starts dishing me call Indy and speak to Jim.
Thanx
Allen
Mopar born, Mopar breed, when I die, call me Mopar dead!
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Re: New INDY?RHS "X" Heads Tech Article
[Re: mopar97]
#374854
08/12/09 09:14 AM
08/12/09 09:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
I talked to Jim with Indy while I was at the Mopar Nats. Pointed out to him what the Hughes site was saying about the spring seat and that limiting HP. His response was that the seat could be cut .100 with no problems. 1.625 installed height plus the .100 cut is equal to .1725. Add + .50 retainers and you are at 1.775. Put a + .50 keeper in and you are now at 1.825 Installed height. Are my figures correct? These installed heights should produce the HP plus some that Indy says the heads will make. I know this is my first post on this site so that will make some people suspect my info. I would recommend you call Indy and verify this info with Jim. I have a circle track IMCA modified customer in N.C. whose cylinder head guy is very impressed with these heads. The heads were on display at the Nats and they look pretty good. When this info was posted on Hughes website it caused me to lose the sale of 4 sets my customers had on order. I am trying to dispel bad information here. A person could cut the stock valves to match the RHS/Indy seats put the heads together and everything is a go. ALMOST a true bolt on. I recently had a STOCK set of magnums worked for the class I race, for $600+ more I could have had heads that out of the box would make a bunch more HP. Before anyone starts dishing me call Indy and speak to Jim.
Thanx
Allen
only caveat I can put on this info, if you're using 8mm magnum valves, is the keeper groove is very high up in the stem, and the stock keepers have the rib at the top. I was playing with different spring combos on a stock head, including checking out keepers from a GM 3100 V6 (same part as LSx motors), which have the groove in the middle of the rib, and added about .050-.060" IH to my stock mags. those keepers leave the top of the keeper flush with the top of the valve, though, and with the retainers I played with (GM3100, again same part as LSx motors) and stock magnum, the rocker hit the retainer before the valve tip. now both these retainers have a bit of a dish to them, so you might be able to get away with .050" retainers, but I doubt you can gain +.1" of IH from retainer/keeper tricks with stock magnum valves, especially since choices are quite limited for retaners and keepers for the 8mm stems (but it is getting better with the popularity of the LSx and 3G Hemi motors). now hone the guides to 11/32 and switch over to some .1" longer chev valves, that might give you a lot more options without horrendously affecting valvetrain geometry.
Last edited by patrick; 08/12/09 09:16 AM.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: New INDY?RHS "X" Heads Tech Article
[Re: Hughes]
#374856
08/18/09 09:10 AM
08/18/09 09:10 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 660
San Diego
formula S
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 660
San Diego
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Quote:
"Are there any plans in the works to correct the castings?"
You should all call Indy & RHS and ask them.
Kevin
Are they going to make a head that will work with a 68 to 71 340 that have the pistons .035 out of the hole?
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Re: New INDY?RHS "X" Heads Tech Article
[Re: formula S]
#374857
08/18/09 10:03 AM
08/18/09 10:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
moparts member
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moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
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I don't do alot of Magnum stuff, mostly because of all these issues, you run into with the 8MM deal, & valvetrain issues, but...I've had to fight with enough of it, to have some knowledge.....
Like Patrick suggested if you are using 8MM Magnum valves that use a round lock groove, those valves are setup with very short tip length, to use a magnum style lock which is essentially similar to a Nascar style "top lock" Basically the lock groove is all way at top of lock, ie. there is no such thing as a +.050" lock for a Magnum style valve. Same deal on the retainer, The whole idea of using that top lock design was to get IH as tall as possible, so you're going to run out of rocker to retainer clearance if you try to run some type of +.050" retainer that stick well up above tip of valve.
So IMO, using Magnum valves, you can throw out the idea of adding +.100" of IH from different locks/retainers.
I've never cut apart an RHS head so I can't make any comments on how far you could machine spring pockets down.
This lack of IH issue, is not really "new" to anything Magnum related, it's one of reasons I prefer to use Magnum Edelbrocks...... It uses a standard SB Chevy 11/32" valve, with traditional .250" tip length & a square lock groove. Also they come through setup for a 1.80"+ IH right out of box.
I've had some guys wanting to have me setup Magnum R/T's for .700" solid rollers..... Good luck.
Usually we end up going to LS1 valves, but that only helps so much..... it's just an inherent design flaw of those heads.
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Re: New INDY?RHS "X" Heads Tech Article
[Re: formula S]
#374858
08/18/09 10:06 AM
08/18/09 10:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
moparts member
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moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
"Are there any plans in the works to correct the castings?"
You should all call Indy & RHS and ask them.
Kevin
Are they going to make a head that will work with a 68 to 71 340 that have the pistons .035 out of the hole?
Steve, Factory blueprint spec on a 10.5:1 340 has piston dome .018" out of hole.
ICH will machine a .060" deep round quench pad in the heads for an additional $95.
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Re: New INDY?RHS "X" Heads Tech Article
[Re: RyanJ]
#374859
08/18/09 11:29 AM
08/18/09 11:29 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 660
San Diego
formula S
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 660
San Diego
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
"Are there any plans in the works to correct the castings?"
You should all call Indy & RHS and ask them.
Kevin
Are they going to make a head that will work with a 68 to 71 340 that have the pistons .035 out of the hole?
Steve, Factory blueprint spec on a 10.5:1 340 has piston dome .018" out of hole.
ICH will machine a .060" deep round quench pad in the heads for an additional $95.
I was talking to a nhra E/SA 340 6pk racer and he said nhra allows the piston to be .045 out of the hole. I just did a 340 an used L2316 piston w/ a 1.84 cd and they ended up .035 out of the hole. This block has been decked,I'm sure your right about the .018 factory spec. Thanks Ryan
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Re: New INDY?RHS "X" Heads Tech Article
[Re: formula S]
#374861
08/18/09 11:52 AM
08/18/09 11:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
moparts member
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moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
"Are there any plans in the works to correct the castings?"
You should all call Indy & RHS and ask them.
Kevin
Are they going to make a head that will work with a 68 to 71 340 that have the pistons .035 out of the hole?
Steve, Factory blueprint spec on a 10.5:1 340 has piston dome .018" out of hole.
ICH will machine a .060" deep round quench pad in the heads for an additional $95.
I was talking to a nhra E/SA 340 6pk racer and he said nhra allows the piston to be .045 out of the hole. I just did a 340 an used L2316 piston w/ a 1.84 cd and they ended up .035 out of the hole. This block has been decked,I'm sure your right about the .018 factory spec. Thanks Ryan
It's simply math..... 3.31/2= 1.6550
1.6550 + 6.1230 Rod + 1.840" Piston = 9.6180"
Blueprint deck height is 9.6000" So piston designed to be .018" out of hole.
Every junkyard 10.5:1 piston 340 I've taken apart had deck around 9.608-9.612" so, when run from factory pistons, were just barely out of hole.
NHRA allows more because of deck height variations on blocks, to be able to get decks both square, on pretty much any block.
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Re: New INDY?RHS "X" Heads Tech Article
[Re: formula S]
#374862
08/18/09 12:05 PM
08/18/09 12:05 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
S/ST 3040
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
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Quote:
I was talking to a nhra E/SA 340 6pk racer and he said nhra allows the piston to be .045 out of the hole. I just did a 340 an used L2316 piston w/ a 1.84 cd and they ended up .035 out of the hole. This block has been decked,I'm sure your right about the .018 factory spec. Thanks Ryan
+ .045" is NHRA Blueprint spec on 68-71 340.......not factory specs. 
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