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Steering Center Link Binds on Oil Pan
#374543
07/13/09 10:53 PM
07/13/09 10:53 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 102
Virginia
MACDiesel
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Posts: 102
Virginia
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I have a '67 Belvedere 440/4-speed. I just put a Milodon 31580 road racing oil pan on and the center link binds on the right side. I didn't want to mod the pan so I searched for alternatives. I called just about everywhere. No one had a different solution. Everybody is modding their oil pans. Mopar doesn't even reproduce center links. Finally I called Firm Feel and ordered their fast ratio pitman and idler arms. They're 1.5" longer than stock and should fix my binding issue. Their only draw back is they don't work with some headers. Check them out: http://firmfeel.com/fastrati.htmI still want to find a solution with the center link that doesn't involve swapping the arms. Someone has to make it or I'll figure out a way to have them made so they can be bought for around $300-350. Anybody got ideas? Ray at CAP and Dick at Firm Feel deserve a big thanks. Those guys are awesome. It's guys like that, that keep this hobby alive! Next time I need suspension or steering parts I'm calling Firm Feel and CAP!
-1967 Belvedere II 440/4speed
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Re: Steering Center Link Binds on Oil Pan
[Re: autoxcuda]
#374546
07/14/09 02:35 PM
07/14/09 02:35 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 102
Virginia
MACDiesel
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No, it's not stud mounted.
Surprisingly, the pan fit great with TONS of clearance between it and the K-member. Ground clearance with 7 qt capacity was the goal with choosing that pan. Milodon did great.
Tell me more about that 70-72 b-body k member. My goal in the end is handling but of course I don't have $5k to throw at a tubular piece. Will the 70-72 just bolt up? What else will I need? Will it move the motor, affecting the trans crossmember?
As far as modding the pan, I'm just picky that way. I've heard that from a lot of people and you along with all of them are probably right. I know there is nothing wrong with modding the pan. Hell, thats how Speed O Motive does it and they're pretty damn good at what they do. I just don't want to do it.
-1967 Belvedere II 440/4speed
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Re: Steering Center Link Binds on Oil Pan
[Re: MACDiesel]
#374547
07/15/09 12:49 AM
07/15/09 12:49 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,319
Chicago Burbs
sthemi
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,319
Chicago Burbs
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In my opinion you should run the 70-72 B-body K-member if you are interested in handling. The 66/67 stud mounted idler flexes. The unique 66-67 idler will or allready has been discontinued. The wide 66-69 style sway bar limits the backspace rims you run in the front and they hang down a little low and bushing straps got beat up Beware, the 71 and up (newer) K member is totally wrong, the steering box mounts at a different angle, Like an E body. 68-70 should be what you are looking for., but I dont think there is any differece between 67 and 68 as far as engine location. It also sounds like you need a C body style notch in the oil pan. I think that is the 187 pan.. 
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Re: Steering Center Link Binds on Oil Pan
[Re: sthemi]
#374548
07/15/09 01:18 AM
07/15/09 01:18 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,220
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Someplace you aren't
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I have dealt with the same thing this summer.
I had a 7 quart low hanging pan- hated it. I didn't like the ground clearance since I drive all the time and do no drag racing with the car. I beat the crap out of the right side, JB welded it up for extra strength and called it good. Then I got mad about the clearnace and out it came.
In went the road race pan you have. I have a 69 383 RR. Pan is KILLER. fits real well all the way around. EXCEPT the same exact hitting you have and the same exact problem as the low hanging pan. Can't beat on this work of art- way too many complex bends, baffles etc to chance it.
I noted how it hit, and in reality it only hits at full travel and really doesn't increase the turning radius. SO I lived with it.
I noticed when I changed the pan that my idler has no place for a cotter pin. Disturbing, but I haven't decided on changing it or not. Considered that might be part of the hitting problem.
Then I got an alignment. The toe was off. THe adjustment made the clearance better, but still kisses slightly.
That is where I'm at right now. The pan is a really great piece, for those that haven't seen one I would say it is worth checking out. If you aren't running an external oil line it is a super good option. You could drill it for one I would think if you wanted to run it. It tucks AWESOME. Also has a place for an oil temp sender to screw into.
I want my fair share
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Re: Steering Center Link Binds on Oil Pan
[Re: MACDiesel]
#374549
07/15/09 01:24 AM
07/15/09 01:24 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,220
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 10,220
Someplace you aren't
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Quote:
Tell me more about that 70-72 b-body k member. My goal in the end is handling but of course I don't have $5k to throw at a tubular piece. Will the 70-72 just bolt up? What else will I need? Will it move the motor, affecting the trans crossmember?
I changed another 69 RR to the 70 up K bar. Not a hard change at all. Nothing but the K bar and the sway bar is changed and maybe the LCA's.
Much better options on sway bars since it has the pass through design.
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Re: Steering Center Link Binds on Oil Pan
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#374552
07/15/09 12:17 PM
07/15/09 12:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 27,471
So Cal
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Quote:
....
The K bar bolts right in like your current one does, 4 large bolts. Somebody might chime in and tell you if the LCA's have a different tab location on the 70-up for the sway bar. ..
The 70-72 B/E LCA's have sway bar tabs in the middle of them. The 66-69 LCA's have sway bar tabs on the end.
Hotchkis now makes 70-72 B/E LCA tabs you can weld into your non sway bar lower control arm. Might be easier for you since in live in HI and parts must be scarce.
I know the E-body 70-74 and 71-72 B-body K-frames have a different steering box angle. I don't think it's an issue with stock exhaust. But has anyone had a steering geometry related issue from the swap? I have heard TTI having an issue with swapped K-members since there stuff is tucked up so close.
If you K-member doesn't have a stud mounted idler and the idler is bolted to the Kmember sandwiched between two pieces of flat metal on top and on bottom, than there is nothing gained there.
Only gain would be the shorter 70 style sway bar. That allows for more front tire backspacing than 4.75 or so.
Lefty has a 67 B-body Coronet setup for handling. Wonder what his thoughts are?
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Re: Steering Center Link Binds on Oil Pan
[Re: autoxcuda]
#374553
07/15/09 05:01 PM
07/15/09 05:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 102
Virginia
MACDiesel
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If only I had an extra $5k laying around... all my problems could be solved.
-1967 Belvedere II 440/4speed
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Re: Steering Center Link Binds on Oil Pan
[Re: autoxcuda]
#374554
07/16/09 02:12 PM
07/16/09 02:12 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 102
Virginia
MACDiesel
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My bad, the idler arm is stub mounted. I was mistaken.
So is that and the narrow sway bar the only advantage to the later k member?
-1967 Belvedere II 440/4speed
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Re: Steering Center Link Binds on Oil Pan
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#374556
07/17/09 01:55 AM
07/17/09 01:55 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 102
Virginia
MACDiesel
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So I got my pitman and idler arms today. They sent me an Idler arm for the '68 and up cars. (pictured center) Of course they mount to the k-member differently. Mine uses a ball joint style mount. (pictured right)
I'm really not sure what I'm going to do. I'll call Dick at Firm Feel tomorrow and see what he says. Does anyone know if I can have the ball joint mount of the old one fitted to the new one? It looks close to the same size. I don't have the time or money right now to swap the k member.
Theold pitman arm isn't pictured because its still on the car. I forgot I needed to buy a pitman arm puller.
Last edited by MACDiesel; 07/17/09 02:13 AM.
-1967 Belvedere II 440/4speed
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Re: Steering Center Link Binds on Oil Pan
[Re: MACDiesel]
#374557
07/17/09 03:04 AM
07/17/09 03:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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So Cal
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Quote:
So I got my pitman and idler arms today. They sent me an Idler arm for the '68 and up cars. (pictured center) Of course they mount to the k-member differently. Mine uses a ball joint style mount. (pictured right)
I'm really not sure what I'm going to do. I'll call Dick at Firm Feel tomorrow and see what he says. Does anyone know if I can have the ball joint mount of the old one fitted to the new one? It looks close to the same size. I don't have the time or money right now to swap the k member.
Theold pitman arm isn't pictured because its still on the car. I forgot I needed to buy a pitman arm puller.
That's what I call a stud mounted idler. There is just a tapered hole in your K-member that the idler goes into. The 67 and down A-bodies are like that. Those inherently have less support (flex). That middle idler is a thru hole type that has a support on the bottom and top.
I bet that 66/67 idler is not easy to get (I bet discontinued by Moog). That's why you got that 68 up unit in the center.
And that is one of the main reasons I suggested in the post prior going to the 70 B-body K-member.
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Re: Steering Center Link Binds on Oil Pan
[Re: autoxcuda]
#374558
07/17/09 03:19 AM
07/17/09 03:19 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 102
Virginia
MACDiesel
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Yeah that is now in the to-do list for the car. Is there anything I can do in the meantime. Maybe open the small end of that tapered hole to 9/16" and bolt the new one on. It should be just about as strong as the old stud. And if it doesn't work the hole will still be tapered, so I could just reinstall the old one.
-1967 Belvedere II 440/4speed
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Re: Steering Center Link Binds on Oil Pan
[Re: MACDiesel]
#374559
07/17/09 04:16 AM
07/17/09 04:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
autoxcuda
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 27,471
So Cal
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Now that I look at the picture I see why he sent you that thru bolt idler. That is the long idler (actually listed optional on the FF site) that goes with the long pitman arm. It's actually a 71 C -body idler. The original E-bodies with the Fast Ratio option steering had the standard shorter idler on one side. Firm Feel offers to upgrade/correct the situation with the C-body idler. But that only worked on thru bolt idler aplications. Idler for your car on www.rockauto.com MOOG Part # K779 Frt Strg; Problem Solver $48.79 You could run a 66/67 idler on one side. BUT, I think you are running the longer arm/fast ratio idler arm for the oil pan clearence issues also?? This is ugly... but you could just run a bolt the fits super tight through the stud hole and bolt that long idler in. Use some sort of locking bolt and an thick hardened washer to cover the taper hole and support the end bearing shaft. Don't tighten to too tight though. It will bind the bearing inside the idler. Keep tightening and moving the idler and you will feel it get harder to turn. For some reason there was a 67 idler stud type Kmember in my 68 Barracuda. I ran the through hole 68 idler for about 4 years.  
Last edited by autoxcuda; 07/17/09 04:35 AM.
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This pan is TRICK!