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great start , bad ending #373455
07/12/09 09:36 PM 07/12/09 09:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor Offline OP
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Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
Car realy like the Jet change..ran 7.05-7.05-7.05-7.06-7.07.Air got wrost as we was going along. I like all that..But Jenni come from last run said something wrong.She says I know the E.T not showing it..but it not running right. It got a light miss in it and sounds funny..ok I checking it over..Hey she been in this car a long time so something not right if she says that. I pull all the plugs and valve covers .I can't find anything .Oil pressure is good. so I run it and lisen There is a noise.sounds deep. I don't like this. So I say let go up and stage the car for first round and get our show up points.and I go home take it apart see whats up. so I pull the oil filter off sys-1 full of metal.drain the oil looks bad. I pull the top end off.not the heads can't see anything.pull the Pan all kinds of metal in the pan .But I don't know what it is ? not bearings.So I am looking / thinking..blows my mind ! I don't know what it is..so other look rolling the motor over and I look up and see this. Pam helping me all along..Great woman ! get right out there and helps.






440 source rod pin bushing did't live very well !
Rod bearing look like new..took all 8 of the pin bushings out.
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: VernMotor] #373456
07/12/09 09:38 PM 07/12/09 09:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,163
Newark, OH
Hunted Duck Offline
super stock
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Newark, OH
OUCH. You going to have it fixed for next weekend?
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: VernMotor] #373457
07/12/09 09:40 PM 07/12/09 09:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,305
Hobart,Indiana
MoparPitBull Offline
Hollywood
MoparPitBull  Offline
Hollywood

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,305
Hobart,Indiana
that sucks

Re: great start , bad ending [Re: VernMotor] #373458
07/12/09 09:48 PM 07/12/09 09:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 398
Ohio
J
jdfpam Offline
enthusiast
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Posts: 398
Ohio
Sorry to see that you had a problem. Pin bushings are a thing that not all engine builders think of.
I really have never seen that happen on an aftermarket rod. Could have been too tight or too loose, could have been just one of those things! Heavy pistons (those are TRW's?), worn pins and excess timing all wear the pins and bushings prematurely.
You should get in touch of 440 Source and see if they have a problem or have seen this. If you find anything out, please let us all know!
Again sorry to see you have a problem. Let me know if we can do anything to get you back on the track.

Good luck!

Jeff Day
Precision Automotive Machine
Canton, Ohio
(330)456-3045
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: VernMotor] #373459
07/13/09 08:06 AM 07/13/09 08:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Sorry to see that Jamie... looks like they didnt have
enough press fit and slid sideways

Re: great start , bad ending [Re: MR_P_BODY] #373460
07/13/09 11:51 AM 07/13/09 11:51 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer Offline
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Rock Springs
Doesn't look like the rod around the pin had any excess heat, blue'n etc. The bushing does look thin.
Is that a Mopar or Chevy .990 pin size?

[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: Bob_Coomer] #373461
07/13/09 12:09 PM 07/13/09 12:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,925
NC
440Jim Offline
I Live Here
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NC
Jenni has a good ear, and you did a good job digging into the motor to find it. 600 passes is a lot between refreshes, but the rods should not have a problem anywhere near that.

Just thinking out loud. If you have TRW pistons with 1.09" pins, maybe the rod manufacturer just used thinner bushings in the same rod (6.76") used for .990" pins; resulting in a thin bushing. But it does look like it pounded out sideways, not just squished. What stroke, rpm, and piston/pin weight was it?

1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: Bob_Coomer] #373462
07/13/09 01:36 PM 07/13/09 01:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor Offline OP
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Quote:

Doesn't look like the rod around the pin had any excess heat, blue'n etc. The bushing does look thin.
Is that a Mopar or Chevy .990 pin size?



1.09 stock size pin
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: 440Jim] #373463
07/13/09 01:39 PM 07/13/09 01:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor Offline OP
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VernMotor  Offline OP
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Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
Quote:

Jenni has a good ear, and you did a good job digging into the motor to find it. 600 passes is a lot between refreshes, but the rods should not have a problem anywhere near that.

Just thinking out loud. If you have TRW pistons with 1.09" pins, maybe the rod manufacturer just used thinner bushings in the same rod (6.76") used for .990" pins; resulting in a thin bushing. But it does look like it pounded out sideways, not just squished. What stroke, rpm, and piston/pin weight was it?



Jim that could very well be.. stock stroke- shift car at 6000 across the line at 6200. old TRW piston..bob-weight was 2532.5g
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: VernMotor] #373464
07/13/09 03:33 PM 07/13/09 03:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,925
NC
440Jim Offline
I Live Here
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NC
Quote:

stock stroke- shift car at 6000 across the line at 6200. old TRW piston..bob-weight was 2532.5g

That should not be hard on things at all.
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: 440Jim] #373465
07/13/09 05:12 PM 07/13/09 05:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
E
emarine01 Offline
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nc
I wonder how those rods hold up on a hot street rig?
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: emarine01] #373466
07/13/09 05:45 PM 07/13/09 05:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175
Duloc
T
The Shadow Offline
top fuel
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Duloc
I'd be curious to know what the interference fit was on that bushing.
I would guess it wasn't enough and the bushing slowly worked it's way out.
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: The Shadow] #373467
07/13/09 07:56 PM 07/13/09 07:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor Offline OP
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VernMotor  Offline OP
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Well here is a flew more pics to lay a eye on.
I took rod-piston apart.
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: VernMotor] #373468
07/13/09 07:59 PM 07/13/09 07:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Q
Quicktree Offline
I Win
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that sucks Jamie, but glad you caught it. oops your drivr caught it

Re: great start , bad ending [Re: Quicktree] #373469
07/13/09 08:06 PM 07/13/09 08:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 687
Ohio
Chad Bittle Offline
mopar
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Posts: 687
Ohio
Glad she caught it....better here then traveling all the way to that state up north.

Last edited by Chad Bittle; 07/13/09 08:07 PM.
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: Chad Bittle] #373470
07/13/09 08:13 PM 07/13/09 08:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366 Offline
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Mt. Vernon, Ohio
any part of the bushing have a hole to oil the pin? sure look's like the rod was drilled for it, but I see no hole in any of the bushing chunk's that I see, also look's like the rod was rough machined and not honed for a true bushing fit. Sorry about the damage.

Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: dartman366] #373471
07/13/09 08:22 PM 07/13/09 08:22 PM

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Quote:

any part of the bushing have a hole to oil the pin? sure look's like the rod was drilled for it, but I see no hole in any of the bushing chunk's that I see, also look's like the rod was rough machined and not honed for a true bushing fit. Sorry about the damage.



i was looking at the same thing. the real problem is that you should probably re-bush all of the rods. i'd also add holes at 5 and 7 o'clock positions. it looks like you need a new pin also.
Re: great start , bad ending #373472
07/13/09 09:05 PM 07/13/09 09:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor Offline OP
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VernMotor  Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

any part of the bushing have a hole to oil the pin? sure look's like the rod was drilled for it, but I see no hole in any of the bushing chunk's that I see, also look's like the rod was rough machined and not honed for a true bushing fit. Sorry about the damage.



i was looking at the same thing. the real problem is that you should probably re-bush all of the rods. i'd also add holes at 5 and 7 o'clock positions. it looks like you need a new pin also.



No I do not see any hole in bushing..But I will say it seems like there is plenty oil there..and all 8 look just like this..not just one. They all have to be done..Plus new wist pins..they are hurt.
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: VernMotor] #373473
07/13/09 09:17 PM 07/13/09 09:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
B
blownzoom440 Offline
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Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

any part of the bushing have a hole to oil the pin? sure look's like the rod was drilled for it, but I see no hole in any of the bushing chunk's that I see, also look's like the rod was rough machined and not honed for a true bushing fit. Sorry about the damage.



i was looking at the same thing. the real problem is that you should probably re-bush all of the rods. i'd also add holes at 5 and 7 o'clock positions. it looks like you need a new pin also.



No I do not see any hole in bushing..But I will say it seems like there is plenty oil there..and all 8 look just like this..not just one. They all have to be done..Plus new wist pins..they are hurt.


dumb question here.is there no way to pollish those pins and finish the bushing to fit the pin?i dont know if the bushings come big[thick] enough to acount for the pin size.
forgive my ignorance please.

Re: great start , bad ending [Re: blownzoom440] #373474
07/13/09 09:25 PM 07/13/09 09:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor Offline OP
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VernMotor  Offline OP
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Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
Wistpins realy are not much money..in the big picture of this mess..I like to find some lighter pins..these things are heavy..
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: VernMotor] #373475
07/13/09 10:25 PM 07/13/09 10:25 PM

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Quote:

Wistpins realy are not much money..in the big picture of this mess..I like to find some lighter pins..these things are heavy..



whats a wistpin?
is it anything like a finnigan pin or a wristpin?

Re: great start , bad ending [Re: blownzoom440] #373476
07/13/09 11:06 PM 07/13/09 11:06 PM

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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

any part of the bushing have a hole to oil the pin? sure look's like the rod was drilled for it, but I see no hole in any of the bushing chunk's that I see, also look's like the rod was rough machined and not honed for a true bushing fit. Sorry about the damage.



i was looking at the same thing. the real problem is that you should probably re-bush all of the rods. i'd also add holes at 5 and 7 o'clock positions. it looks like you need a new pin also.



No I do not see any hole in bushing..But I will say it seems like there is plenty oil there..and all 8 look just like this..not just one. They all have to be done..Plus new wist pins..they are hurt.


dumb question here.is there no way to pollish those pins and finish the bushing to fit the pin?i dont know if the bushings come big[thick] enough to acount for the pin size.
forgive my ignorance please.



if you polish the pin, it would be undersize and then too loose in the piston.
the right way is to buy new pins, make sure the piston/ pin fit is correct and then size the bushing in the rod accordingly.
Re: great start , bad ending #373477
07/14/09 04:48 AM 07/14/09 04:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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blownzoom440 Offline
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thanks Dram!i did not think of it being loose in the piston.DAAAAH!

Last edited by METAL STORM; 07/14/09 04:50 AM.
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: VernMotor] #373478
07/14/09 09:03 PM 07/14/09 09:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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blownzoom440 Offline
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ELYRIA,OH
if you look further for detail on what went on let us know if you would.do you have any pictures of other parts like the piston top,pin bushing out of the rod...
if you have time.

Re: great start , bad ending [Re: blownzoom440] #373479
07/14/09 09:15 PM 07/14/09 09:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor Offline OP
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VernMotor  Offline OP
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Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
I post some more pic for you !

Re: great start , bad ending [Re: VernMotor] #373480
07/14/09 09:36 PM 07/14/09 09:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
S
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Charleston
why would oil to a pressed pin be an issue?

Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: sixpackgut] #373481
07/14/09 09:43 PM 07/14/09 09:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor Offline OP
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VernMotor  Offline OP
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Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
Not a press pin.
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: VernMotor] #373482
07/14/09 10:09 PM 07/14/09 10:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
S
sixpackgut Offline
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Charleston
Quote:

Not a press pin.



oh

Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: sixpackgut] #373483
07/14/09 10:50 PM 07/14/09 10:50 PM

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Quote:

Quote:

Not a press pin.



oh



pay attention Raymond.

Re: great start , bad ending #373484
07/14/09 11:54 PM 07/14/09 11:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
S
sixpackgut Offline
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sixpackgut  Offline
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Charleston
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Not a press pin.



oh



pay attention Raymond.



3 out of 4 of my posts are really stupid lately

like this one

Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: sixpackgut] #373485
07/15/09 05:21 AM 07/15/09 05:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Q
Quicktree Offline
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Q

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Posts: 32,394
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Not a press pin.



oh



pay attention Raymond.



3 out of 4 of my posts are really stupid lately

like this one



been rading to many books

Re: great start , bad ending [Re: VernMotor] #373486
07/15/09 11:50 AM 07/15/09 11:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger Offline
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Quote:

Well here is a flew more pics to lay a eye on.
I took rod-piston apart.







I would have to agree that the finish in the pin bore is terrible. Theres no surface friction to hold the bushing in place. A result of trying to get the product on the shelf for less $$.

On a side note.. what kind of heads and cam do you have to get a 440 coronet to a 10.30???
Re: great start , bad ending [Re: RemCharger] #373487
07/15/09 12:21 PM 07/15/09 12:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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blownzoom440 Offline
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ELYRIA,OH
what can you do,measure the pin bore on the rod and bushing OD[new].i dont know if it would help figure it out depending on the results.

Re: great start , bad ending [Re: blownzoom440] #373488
07/15/09 01:40 PM 07/15/09 01:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor Offline OP
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VernMotor  Offline OP
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Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
My car does not run 10.30 ???? more like 11.00
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