Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
bogs and stumbles #348765
06/16/09 10:51 AM
06/16/09 10:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
lashed the valves on the 408 .003" tighter(.017-.019) than spec(.020-.022) and now i have a bog in low gear only and seems to go away as engine gets up to operating temp(180), but not completely. i have a prosystems 1000hp on it with 40 squirters. i tryed 35 squirters and its worse, 45's are about the same as the 40's, but feel kind of mushy.
i talked to patrick at prosystems and he told me to drill out the idle air bleeds til i could get the mixture screws in the 2 turns range. well i drilled them .017" to take them from .076 to .093, now the mixtures screws were at 1 1/8 and now are at 1 3/4 turns out. this has helped alot and now with 40's in it the problem is almost gone, but still has a quik stumble that i can not seem to get completely cured. any ideas what else i might try? i'm thinking the problem may not be in the carb at this point, but in the convertor. 727 with a 9.5" tight 4500 and 4.10 gear. patrick also mentioned tuning the power valve, but not sure which way to go with it. the slight hesitation is now from dead stop to about 25-30mph after that no problem and no problems in park either.

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: mopar dave] #348766
06/16/09 11:19 AM
06/16/09 11:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 732
M
mikemotorhead Offline
super street
mikemotorhead  Offline
super street
M

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 732
Dave I had a problem just like that several years ago that had me pulling out my hair for awhile. Turned out that the gasket between the front bowl and metering block was partially blocking the flow to my squirters and causing the bog. Don't know if this could be the problem but you might want to check just in case!
Mike

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: mikemotorhead] #348767
06/16/09 11:59 AM
06/16/09 11:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger Offline
master
RemCharger  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
That and your check valves in the accel pump system. The one in the bowl mostly, but try a new needle in the squirter hole too. I assume the pump screws are drilled?

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: mopar dave] #348768
06/16/09 12:06 PM
06/16/09 12:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
patrick also mentioned tuning the power valve, but not sure which way to go with it. the slight hesitation is now from dead stop to about 25-30mph after that no problem and no problems in park either.




He is saying to get the PV closer to your vac point
so there is less time for it to open during your
transition (most likely you would need to raise the
PV number)

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: MR_P_BODY] #348769
06/16/09 01:09 PM
06/16/09 01:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
you may be onto something charger with the bowl gaskets or check valves as i notice the throttle has to travel about 1/4" to squirt fuel out either squirter. i adjusted the pump levers to .020" and still does the same thing.
my pv now is a 6.5 and my vacuum in gear is between 5-6". so maybe a 4.5 would be better?
what i don't understand is how tightening up the cam/valve lash could cause these issues.

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: mopar dave] #348770
06/16/09 01:18 PM
06/16/09 01:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger Offline
master
RemCharger  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
Cowinkidink?

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: mopar dave] #348771
06/16/09 01:29 PM
06/16/09 01:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

you may be onto something charger with the bowl gaskets or check valves as i notice the throttle has to travel about 1/4" to squirt fuel out either squirter. i adjusted the pump levers to .020" and still does the same thing.
my pv now is a 6.5 and my vacuum in gear is between 5-6". so maybe a 4.5 would be better?
what i don't understand is how tightening up the cam/valve lash could cause these issues.




If you change the vac in the engine it would change
the way it runs and basically you changed the
cam events ... with your vac being 5-6" and your
running a 6.5 theoretically its already dumping fuel...
it should be 1" less than your in gear idle vac

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: MR_P_BODY] #348772
06/16/09 02:02 PM
06/16/09 02:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
E
emarine01 Offline
master
emarine01  Offline
master
E

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
When you tightend the intake lash you make the cam a little bigger in lift and duration it may not be much but it changes the valve timing

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: mopar dave] #348773
06/16/09 02:14 PM
06/16/09 02:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
B

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
"Bogs and Stumbles"... sounds like a Country & Western duo.

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: BradH] #348774
06/16/09 02:42 PM
06/16/09 02:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
yeah, if i could just wright a song maybe i could make enough money i could buy the baddest car on here and would'nt be bothered with bogs and stumbles. so ya think i should have a 4.5 pv in it? i just got back from a hot 30 mile ride with the engine temp running 195-200 and the 35 squirters in it and its for sure worse than with the 40's in it. not by much, but theres alittle more stumble than the 40's. at a couple traffic lights i tryed footbraking at 1500, definite bog and at 2000 just alittle stumble, but i may try the 45's again later and see how it acts. it looks like the 40's are the best squirter, but there's more adjustments somewhere else. i'll pull the front bowl and change the pv and check the gasket and check valve for now and go from there.

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: mopar dave] #348775
06/16/09 03:08 PM
06/16/09 03:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
E
emarine01 Offline
master
emarine01  Offline
master
E

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
Hey I am not a carb pro but you said the squirters dont start till 1/4 throttle, that sounded a little late for me, any one else wanta step in on this , my squirters come on when I move the throttle, I flash a 5k vert off a 1200 idle and need the fuel early, I dont run any part throttle execpt loading on the trailer

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: emarine01] #348776
06/16/09 03:11 PM
06/16/09 03:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

Hey I am not a carb pro but you said the squirters dont start till 1/4 throttle, that sounded a little late for me, any one else wanta step in on this , my squirters come on when I move the throttle, I flash a 5k vert off a 1200 idle and need the fuel early, I dont run any part throttle execpt loading on the trailer




Thats alot late... should start to squirt as soon as
you start to open the blades

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: MR_P_BODY] #348777
06/16/09 03:18 PM
06/16/09 03:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
E
emarine01 Offline
master
emarine01  Offline
master
E

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
Quote:

Quote:

Hey I am not a carb pro but you said the squirters dont start till 1/4 throttle, that sounded a little late for me, any one else wanta step in on this , my squirters come on when I move the throttle, I flash a 5k vert off a 1200 idle and need the fuel early, I dont run any part throttle execpt loading on the trailer




Thats alot late... should start to squirt as soon as
you start to open the blades



Thats what I thought, This squirter thing is kinda new to me ,It sounds like turbo lag on a diesel

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: MR_P_BODY] #348778
06/16/09 03:20 PM
06/16/09 03:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
yeah, i agree. all of my past carbs squirted as soon as the throttle was moved. the pumps are adjusted properly and the pump levers are moving as soon as the throttle is moved, but no squirt til 1/4" of movement. maybe i should contact patrick about this, it seems weird. it has 50cc pumps also, do think that would be a charactoristic of a 50cc pump?

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: mopar dave] #348779
06/16/09 03:24 PM
06/16/09 03:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
i just called patrick and left a message on this, will see what he thinks about this.

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: mopar dave] #348780
06/16/09 04:53 PM
06/16/09 04:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
patrick got right back with and had me remove one of the metering blocks. he has a modification in the squirter passage that consists of drilling a pin hole in this passage to bleed off some pump shot. it seems my motor wants the extra fuel, so i plugged the holes in both blocks with jb kwik. once it sets up will see if this helps. suppose to rain tomorrow, so it'll be a couple days.

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: mopar dave] #348781
06/17/09 04:05 PM
06/17/09 04:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
i patched up the bleed holes in the pump shot passage that prosystems had modded. now i have pump shot as soon as the throttle is moved. will see if this helps with the stumble. also pulled a couple plugs and found they were almost black, so while i was in there i dropped the pri. and sec. jetting two sizes. was 84/92 and now 82/90.
when i had it on the dyno the air/fuel was 12.8 avg in 65* weather. should run alittle cleaner. i'll know more tomorrow when the roads dry up.

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: mopar dave] #348782
06/22/09 11:55 AM
06/22/09 11:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
ok, the stumble is completely gone after engine is at operating temp. (180*+). i tried the 35 squirter first and the stumble would'nt completely go away, so i tried 40's and stumbling issues are gone. the leaner jetting also made a world of difference as now from a 15-20mph roll in first gear i can hammer it and the 325/50 mt/drag radials fry thru 1st and sometimes all the way thru 2nd gear@7000rpm. this indy headed 408 is finally coming together. its becoming a real beast.

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: mopar dave] #348783
07/02/09 02:47 PM
07/02/09 02:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,128
sweden
S
sshemi Offline
top fuel
sshemi  Offline
top fuel
S

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,128
sweden
Quote:

patrick got right back with and had me remove one of the metering blocks. he has a modification in the squirter passage that consists of drilling a pin hole in this passage to bleed off some pump shot. it seems my motor wants the extra fuel, so i plugged the holes in both blocks with jb kwik. once it sets up will see if this helps. suppose to rain tomorrow, so it'll be a couple days.




exactly where did he put the bleed holes (why would you wanna do that?) reason i am asking is I also have a pro system carb and i to have a bog.
And i have tried everything squirters, cams.
Wonder if i also have the bleed holes.

Thanks

Joel

Re: bogs and stumbles [Re: sshemi] #348784
07/02/09 03:01 PM
07/02/09 03:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,041
Mt Morris Michigan
take your metering blocks off and lay them pv side down, look at the pump shot passage and follow it up to the middle of the block where it turns and goes into the main body, at the turn is where the .028 hole will be. its hard to see, but if you turn the block around and hold it up to a light, look thru the pump shot hole just above the pv. its hard to see, but if its there plug it with some jb quik.

Page 1 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1