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voltage regulator. #339651
06/06/09 02:07 PM
06/06/09 02:07 PM
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Dallas, TX
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71_Demon Offline OP
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When did they stop using mechincal ones? How do you tell the difference between electronic and mechanical?

I ask because my alternator decided to take a crap. got a new 60amp alternator. Now i'm reading 16+volts at the battery. Not Good!


'71 Demon 383 auto '12 Ram 2500 6.7 Diesel
Re: voltage regulator. [Re: 71_Demon] #339652
06/06/09 02:17 PM
06/06/09 02:17 PM
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Niles , Ohio
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therocks Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks  Offline
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Well I know 69 was the last year for sure.I did have a 70 Imp that was electronic.The points type looks like a small rectangular box with a place for wires both ends.Looks like a small box.What tear car do you have?They do make a solid state reg to replace the points one.That and the alts are different.Early has only 1 field.Late looks like squares and has 2 field wire connectors.Rocky


Chrysler Firepower
Re: voltage regulator. [Re: therocks] #339653
06/06/09 02:24 PM
06/06/09 02:24 PM
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Posts: 320
Dallas, TX
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71_Demon Offline OP
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The car is a '71 Demon with a 383 out of a '69 roadrunner. When I got the alternaot I told them for a '69 rr. When I had probelms years ago I told them I needed one for '69rr. I dont know how to tell how many fields there is. But its a three wire alternator.


'71 Demon 383 auto '12 Ram 2500 6.7 Diesel
Re: voltage regulator. [Re: 71_Demon] #339654
06/06/09 03:09 PM
06/06/09 03:09 PM
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Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline
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last year was 69, HOWEVER, I have known some later 69 C bodies were already electronic. In fact some 69 alternator units already had the provisions for both isolated brushes, but still round backs alts.

you can use squareback or roundbacks alts with any regulatro as far you have it wired correctly

NORMALLY roundbacks alts are with one brush grounded, directly attached to housing. Those where designed to work with mechanical regulator, sending regulated positive source throught green field wire

Then Square back alts are with both brushes isolated, to get constant positive from ign key throught blue wire field and regulated ground coming from elect regulator, throught the green field wire. For obvious reasosn both need to be isulated from chassis

Now you can make work and mix any setup. You can modify a roundback alt/one brush isolated drilling a hole on hosuing ande fit the secondary isolation setup brush. to use with electronic regulator, and making a slight wiring modification

Same about squarebacks alts, grounding one brush ( with a wire to chassis or replacing the isolation washer for a metallic washer ) and use that one with mech regulator. BEING SURE NOBODY HOOKS THE FIELD WIRE on the grounded brush, because will short.

With roundbacks alts setted for both setups, you need just to set the right brush setup and fit it on housing to match with any engine harness wiring and regulator kind

if your 71 is still correcty factory setted, you must get the squareback alt and elect regulator. Thts is thre wires... green ( regulated source, negative ) blue ( constant source, positive ) and black ( alt positive output to ammeter ).

if you got a 69 alt and is three wires, you have the roundback alt with chance to both setups. Works exactly the same than a squareback alt, just not the correct date to your 71


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: voltage regulator. [Re: NachoRT74] #339655
06/06/09 03:30 PM
06/06/09 03:30 PM
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Posts: 320
Dallas, TX
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71_Demon Offline OP
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After reading that five times I am still somewhat confused. Is there any way to provide pics of the alt.'s and regualtors you speak of?

When you say square back does that literally mean there is a square somewhere on the back of the case? And round would be an all round back? If thats the case I would say I had a square on the car and was sold a round.

Also will a mech. and elc. regaulto have the same connector?


'71 Demon 383 auto '12 Ram 2500 6.7 Diesel
Re: voltage regulator. [Re: 71_Demon] #339656
06/06/09 03:55 PM
06/06/09 03:55 PM
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Upper Midwest
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MoparforLife Offline
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Electronic OEM regulator for dual field wire alternator is flat rectangular shap with a triangular shaped plug in in the front of it.
The older single field wire regulator had a connection for wires at 2 places and was more squarish and taller voltage regulator . Here is a picture of the newer style electroninc regulator for a dual field wire alternator. http://www.bouchillonperformance.com/BPE5310-11.asp

Last edited by MoparforLife; 06/06/09 04:01 PM.
Re: voltage regulator. [Re: 71_Demon] #339657
06/06/09 04:57 PM
06/06/09 04:57 PM

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Quote:

After reading that five times I am still somewhat confused. Is there any way to provide pics of the alt.'s and regualtors you speak of?

When you say square back does that literally mean there is a square somewhere on the back of the case? And round would be an all round back? If thats the case I would say I had a square on the car and was sold a round.

Also will a mech. and elc. regaulto have the same connector?




Forget all the round/squareback stuff for now

Alternators don't have "two fields" they have an ISOLATED, meaning UNGROUNDED field so......

up to 69 had a GROUNDED field, so it had one big stud for output/ battery, and one push on connector

70 and later ADDED on more push-on connector. They simply UNGROUNDED the field and brought the connection out.

NOW WHERE THIS GET'S STICKY---some rebuilders MODIFIED old cases and added the insulated field connector---so it's possible to find an OLD roundback off a 69/earlier WHICH HAS two push on connectors---this is useable on the 70 and up

You can use the late isolated field on ANY year by grounding one field connection.

You can NOT USE the early alternators with a 70 and later alternator UNLESS, as above, some rebuilder has added the isolated/ second connection.

There are THREE regulators

The old up to 69 "popular" car regulator

The old up to 69 heavier duty "truck" regulator, about twice the size of the "popular" one

Both of the above have two wire connections--FIELD and IGNITION (and ground!! the case)

The late '70 and later electronic/ isolated field regulator, which has the triangular connector

Re: voltage regulator. [Re: MoparforLife] #339658
06/06/09 05:35 PM
06/06/09 05:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 320
Dallas, TX
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71_Demon Offline OP
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Quote:

Electronic OEM regulator for dual field wire alternator is flat rectangular shap with a triangular shaped plug in in the front of it.
The older single field wire regulator had a connection for wires at 2 places and was more squarish and taller voltage regulator . Here is a picture of the newer style electroninc regulator for a dual field wire alternator. http://www.bouchillonperformance.com/BPE5310-11.asp




Thanks you! that cleared up many qiestions.


'71 Demon 383 auto '12 Ram 2500 6.7 Diesel
Re: voltage regulator. #339659
06/06/09 05:40 PM
06/06/09 05:40 PM
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Posts: 320
Dallas, TX
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71_Demon Offline OP
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Thank you this clears up a lot.

Like I aid I have a ground connector and two push on connectors. I am pretty postive I wired it right otherwise I wouldnt be getting an over charge issue. If thats right??

I have the trianglular connector making it a '70 and up. Given the fact thats its over charging I am failing the voltage regultor. Unless you can think of a way that wiring anolder case atl. would casue a drastic over charge??? thanks Kevin


'71 Demon 383 auto '12 Ram 2500 6.7 Diesel
Re: voltage regulator. [Re: 71_Demon] #339660
06/06/09 08:02 PM
06/06/09 08:02 PM

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Quote:

Thank you this clears up a lot.

Like I aid I have a ground connector and two push on connectors. I am pretty postive I wired it right otherwise I wouldnt be getting an over charge issue. If thats right??

I have the trianglular connector making it a '70 and up. Given the fact thats its over charging I am failing the voltage regultor. Unless you can think of a way that wiring anolder case atl. would casue a drastic over charge??? thanks Kevin





I've posted this many many times. Overcharging is NOT NECESSARILY the voltage regulator. It can be either the

ground path to the regulator

or the

hot path to the sensing (ignition) terminal of the regulator

YOU MUST TEST THESE.

One way is with a good digital meter What you MUST understand is that the ground (case) of the regulator MUST be within a few tenths of a volt of the battery negative and......

The sense (ignition) terminal of the regulator must be within a few tenths of a volt of the battery positive.

SO

Get the battery "up" (charged) fire the car up and simulate a low/medium "cruise" condition, all accessories off, then REtest with a heavy load, like lights and heater blower.

With the engine running as above, stab one meter post directly onto the battery negative post, and the other probe directly onto the regulator case. With the meter on a low volts scale, you want to measure very LOW voltage, the lower the better. More than a couple tenths of a volt and certainly more than say, 4 tenths (.4 v) is too much.

Now do the same for the ign terminal. probe the ign terminal of the regulator (usually it's "safe" to use the high side of the ballast) and stab the other probe directly onto the battery positive. AGAIN a very low, the lower the better, and certainly NO HIGHER than .2--.4V is maximum

If you get a high reading on the battery neg. you need to upgrade the grounds to the regulator case and the battery, maybe add one or two straps and clean the reg. mounting

If the battery pos. reading is high, it could be ANY poor connection between the battery positive, over through the harness, through the bulkhead connector, through the ammeter, through the harness and connector to the key/ switch, BACK through the ign switch connector, BACK through the harness, and BACK through (again!!) the bulkhead connector, and up to the "blue" wire that feeds the regulator/ coil resistor/ and one side of the alternator field.

IF THE REGULATOR sees a voltage drop through any of the above, it "thinks" the battery is low and jacks up the charging voltage!!!!!

Rapid Robert has posted many times a different approach. Again, with the engine simulating low/ med cruise, monitor the battery voltage with a meter, and using a heavy REAL heavy clip lead or a jumper cable,

jumper from the battery neg. post to the regulator case AND SEE IF the battery voltage drops to the correct value (14.2 or so)

jumper a heavy clip lead from the battery POSITIVE to the ign terminal of the regulator, and see if that drops the charging voltage

Re: voltage regulator. #339661
06/06/09 08:43 PM
06/06/09 08:43 PM
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Posts: 320
Dallas, TX
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71_Demon Offline OP
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I understand what you are saying. And I'm basicly looking for voltage drop over .4. Ok cool I will check that tomorrow. Now the only thing I have left to ask is would it matter if the over charge only happens when rpm's are over roughly 2,000? Also at idle its showing 12.89. Dont know if that helps without testing anything. Will let you know what I find thank you!


'71 Demon 383 auto '12 Ram 2500 6.7 Diesel
Re: voltage regulator. [Re: 71_Demon] #339662
06/06/09 08:53 PM
06/06/09 08:53 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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Quote:

would it matter if the over charge only happens when rpm's are over roughly 2,000?


What 440sixpack said, you want the rpm's up to where the alt is putting out more current than the vehicle load is consuming then it comes down to is the regulator doing it's job & regulating the alt's output voltage.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: voltage regulator. [Re: RapidRobert] #339663
06/06/09 10:45 PM
06/06/09 10:45 PM

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Quote:

Quote:

would it matter if the over charge only happens when rpm's are over roughly 2,000?


What 440sixpack said, you want the rpm's up to where the alt is putting out more current than the vehicle load is consuming then it comes down to is the regulator doing it's job & regulating the alt's output voltage.




That's the thing==you need to understand "ohms law" Voltage drop is caused by current flow. If there's no current flow, then there's no voltage drop. For example, you could have a huge long battery--to output stud wire strung all over the ground, but if there's no current= no charging current, then there's no voltage drop.

That's why you need to check this both with/ without some accessories on. For example, if you turn on the heater, and maybe the connector on the ignition switch has a loose connection, or if the switch is getting a little corroded, it might show up as an increased drop on your positive measurement

Re: voltage regulator.Update #339664
06/10/09 06:52 AM
06/10/09 06:52 AM
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Dallas, TX
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71_Demon Offline OP
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I think I have solved my problem! After letting the battery sit on a charger over night the charging voltage now stays below 14.0 volts. I dont know at this point if it was a discharged battery that caused it or the regulator that I put on for the heck of it. Oh well I will keep an eye on it and maybe getting a new battery. Thanks Everyone


'71 Demon 383 auto '12 Ram 2500 6.7 Diesel






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