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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: Devilbrad]
#335832
06/02/09 08:06 PM
06/02/09 08:06 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 274
Greenville, SC
bad360rt
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 274
Greenville, SC
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Quote:
I'm picking my SRT8 6 speed up Thursday night. I will be sending it down the track Saturday. I will report my times. 
Very nice, didn't know you were getting one. I'd love to park a black 6 speed R/T next to the Dak.
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: bad360rt]
#335833
06/02/09 08:15 PM
06/02/09 08:15 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,880
USA
Ron Silva
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,880
USA
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Tony, I think the difference might be that I was asking to correct the stock tune. Not for a performance tune. For instance, if the knock sensors were pulling timing out and they programmed it to not do that , eventually it would pull the timing out anyways.
Or it could be what you say. Mopars are always the last ones to be learned in the performance world, and maybe they did not know about the new sofware etc...Either way, I thought they would be my best shot locally.
SRT DEMON ONE SEAT
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: Ron Silva]
#335834
06/02/09 08:36 PM
06/02/09 08:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 719
Ohio
Dodgetony
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 719
Ohio
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Quote:
Tony, I think the difference might be that I was asking to correct the stock tune. Not for a performance tune. For instance, if the knock sensors were pulling timing out and they programmed it to not do that , eventually it would pull the timing out anyways.
Or it could be what you say. Mopars are always the last ones to be learned in the performance world, and maybe they did not know about the new sofware etc...Either way, I thought they would be my best shot locally.
I see what you are saying. With CMR software they can modify the knock sensor settings. I bet they did not have it yet. My local chassis dyno does not have it yet either. From what you are describing I bet you were fighting short and long term knock. When I was first running nitrous I could actually feel the car "pulling back". My data logs showed the ST knock was killing it....pulling 16 degrees. That is when I got a CMR custom tune that eliminated the problem. I can run a nitrous pass all the way and not pull any timing...and you can really feel the difference.
To your defense..you should not have had to mess with any of that with a stock car. It is a shame it ran the way it did for you..it is an awesome looking car.
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: Ron Silva]
#335835
06/02/09 08:39 PM
06/02/09 08:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,180
Detroit, MI
CokeBottleKid
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,180
Detroit, MI
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Ya sounds like Westech just doesn't know fuel injected mopars  . You're kind of missing the point, you shouldn't NEED to compensate problems with the ECU, if it's reading a bunch of knock counts good chance it IS KNOCKING or you have a bad knock sensor... so you fix the problem (burning tons of oil, or replace the knock sensor).
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: bad360rt]
#335836
06/02/09 08:39 PM
06/02/09 08:39 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
Devilbrad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm picking my SRT8 6 speed up Thursday night. I will be sending it down the track Saturday. I will report my times.
Very nice, didn't know you were getting one. I'd love to park a black 6 speed R/T next to the Dak.
Thas because you dont spend enough time in the cat house!!! LOL
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: Ron Silva]
#335837
06/02/09 08:46 PM
06/02/09 08:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
Devilbrad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
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Quote:
OK, here is your answer. ...........Sorry, but that is not it.
Sorry, wasnt trying to tell you that you couldnt drive, was just curious as to your launch techniques and such. As I stated I should be picking mine up Thursday night and will have it at the track Saturday. As for the knock retard...is that what your car was doing? With the oil consumption I could totally see that happening. Curious what the new owner is experiencing with the car.
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: Dodgetony]
#335840
06/02/09 10:11 PM
06/02/09 10:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,717
Rancho Cucamonga, Calif.
PUNK
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,717
Rancho Cucamonga, Calif.
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[quote
I am not arguing with you but something is not right there. These car are completely tunable. I have a diablo predator tuner and we tuned it on the chassis dyno. Then on top of the Predator tuner, there is CMR software that is able to make drastic changes in the program. Many...many people are tuning these cars and the tune don't just go away or not "stick". It is there until the owner removes it and replaces the stock tune.
I currently run two tunes, one for NA and one for Nitrous.
That shop must not have the CMR software for the Challengers yet.
I understand that there are plenty of aftermarket piggy back tuners. I think; im not sure though that your tuner stays in the car is that right? I think what the shop was talking about was actually rewriting the factory PCM as to not require an outside programmer such as the one that you are talking about. Many of my friends have non-mopar based fuel injected modern muscle cars and they also have the add-on programmers that piggy back the PCM or stay connected to the data link connector. I dont think Ron wanted that. Westech has teh ability to completely rewrite the software for the GM and Ford PCMs but not the Chrysler PCMs. This is what we were after. I believe that ALL the supercharged/turbocharged and big cubic inch modern HEMI cars all use a piggy back type programmable PCM that works in conjunction with the PCM. I dont think any use just a reflashed Factory PCM. I may be wrong though.
10.53 @ 125mph. 1.37 60 foot. Caltracs and Monoleafs, AFCO shocks.
Heads by INDIO MOTOR MACHINE; IMM.
CP Pistons, PC Carbs.
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: PUNK]
#335841
06/02/09 10:21 PM
06/02/09 10:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 719
Ohio
Dodgetony
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 719
Ohio
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Quote:
[quote
I understand that there are plenty of aftermarket piggy back tuners. I think; im not sure though that your tuner stays in the car is that right? I think what the shop was talking about was actually rewriting the factory PCM as to not require an outside programmer such as the one that you are talking about. Many of my friends have non-mopar based fuel injected modern muscle cars and they also have the add-on programmers that piggy back the PCM or stay connected to the data link connector. I dont think Ron wanted that. Westech has teh ability to completely rewrite the software for the GM and Ford PCMs but not the Chrysler PCMs. This is what we were after. I believe that ALL the supercharged/turbocharged and big cubic inch modern HEMI cars all use a piggy back type programmable PCM that works in conjunction with the PCM. I dont think any use just a reflashed Factory PCM. I may be wrong though.
What Diablo Sport has done (Preadtor tuner) has broken into the factory tune. They allow the owner to modify portions of the tune. Actually it is quite comprehensive. Then there are some actual programmers that have the CMR software that can also take this factory tune and modify it even more. These are not actual piggy backs, however actual modifications to the tune that is specifically in your car. Each tune/tuning tool is "married" to your car and your tune. It sounds like the place you guys are referring to does not have the CMR software that allows them to change the factory tune.
But again...it should not have been needed in this case. It is hard to tell, but with the oil consumption (and lack of a catch can I assume) the oil could have been causing the false knock and retarding the timing and fuel. That is just a guess, but in these cars oil getting routed back into the intake is a common cause for timing and fuel retard. That is why one of the first things performance oriented guys add a catch can in between the pvc to catch the blow by.
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: DaKuda]
#335844
06/02/09 11:46 PM
06/02/09 11:46 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,880
USA
Ron Silva
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,880
USA
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Just to clarify, the car was not burning that much oil. It was needing to add a second quart when I changed the oil just before I sold it. At about 5500 miles. So that is one quart in 2750 miles. By todays standards that seems like a lot, but may in fact be normal for this motor. And it may have gotten better as it broke in some more.
I will bet that every one of your Guy's race motors burn that much oil in that many miles (if you should ever drive that many miles with a race motor) and it is not causing detonation. Or basically I do not believe one quart in 2750 miles is enough to cause detonation in this motor. I think that question as to the oil level got some of us off track.
SRT DEMON ONE SEAT
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: Ron Silva]
#335845
06/02/09 11:51 PM
06/02/09 11:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,015
Down South
DaKuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,015
Down South
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Quote:
Just to clarify, the car was not burning that much oil. It was needing to add a second quart when I changed the oil just before I sold it. At about 5500 miles. So that is one quart in 2750 miles. By todays standards that seems like a lot, but may in fact be normal for this motor. And it may have gotten better as it broke in some more.
I will bet that every one of your Guy's race motors burn that much oil in that many miles (if you should ever drive that many miles with a race motor) and it is not causing detonation. Or basically I do not believe one quart in 2750 miles is enough to cause detonation in this motor. I think that question as to the oil level got some of us off track.
Should burn 0=ZERO that new. I have had 2 5.7 HEMI trucks and they used NO oil. They did both make a knocking sound at idle though..... 
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: DaKuda]
#335846
06/03/09 12:07 AM
06/03/09 12:07 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,646
Plymouth Meeting, PA
bigtimeauto
Trophy Winner
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Trophy Winner
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,646
Plymouth Meeting, PA
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I wonder why...mine runs fine? I bought one of the first ones '08 #2525 got it July 2 of last year. I took it to atco dragway for Mopar Enthusiast magazine with 150 miles on the clock. Mine ran 13.30 107 in drive, traction control on, no air filter. I will tell you this When I shifted my automatic at 6200 it wouldn't run out of the 50's it shifts at 5800 by itself and that's where it ran its best. I have since added a exhaust (probably removed 100 lbs!) but never got back to the track with it. It only has 570 miles on it now so i don't know if the performance drops off in time but it still puts a smile on my face for 4k lbs.
BB, TT5,Procharged 3300lb Street Car 4.79/154
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: DaKuda]
#335847
06/03/09 01:23 AM
06/03/09 01:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,180
Detroit, MI
CokeBottleKid
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,180
Detroit, MI
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Quote:
Chrysler has turned to TOTAL CRAP!!!! Those cars are WAY too heavy. This is what you get when a bunch of "college" kids that become engineers
are allowed to design a car. They know NOTHING of Mopar history. We now have a company that calls a 4 DOOR CAR a Charger. One of the true Mopar cars. Dont get me wrong the new charger is a descent looking car but DONT CALL IT A CHARGER YOU MORONS!!! They are sticking wings on trucks and making a new Challenger by simply cutting two doors off a family car. I am Mopar to the bone but this new breed is total CRAP!!! I just bought my wife our 2nd Toyota.....I would have NEVER even considered such in the day. REAL Mopar died in the '70's.......
Thanks, Im done.
You do realize engineers have little say in the general design of the car (size, weight etc)? That's all setup by 'business' people who think they know what Americans want.
Thanks - soon to be college grad engineer aiming to enter the auto industry...
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: CokeBottleKid]
#335848
06/03/09 02:27 AM
06/03/09 02:27 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,110
toledo, ohio
plasticfantastic
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,110
toledo, ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Chrysler has turned to TOTAL CRAP!!!! Those cars are WAY too heavy. This is what you get when a bunch of "college" kids that become engineers
are allowed to design a car. They know NOTHING of Mopar history. We now have a company that calls a 4 DOOR CAR a Charger. One of the true Mopar cars. Dont get me wrong the new charger is a descent looking car but DONT CALL IT A CHARGER YOU MORONS!!! They are sticking wings on trucks and making a new Challenger by simply cutting two doors off a family car. I am Mopar to the bone but this new breed is total CRAP!!! I just bought my wife our 2nd Toyota.....I would have NEVER even considered such in the day. REAL Mopar died in the '70's.......
Thanks, Im done.
mopar to the bone... but hes on his second Toyota... 
dont take it personal, you can buy whatever you want, but I AM mopar to the bone and it makes me laugh when someone drives a toyota or ford (or whatever), but claims to bleed mopar...
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: plasticfantastic]
#335849
06/03/09 07:32 AM
06/03/09 07:32 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,015
Down South
DaKuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,015
Down South
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Chrysler has turned to TOTAL CRAP!!!! Those cars are WAY too heavy. This is what you get when a bunch of "college" kids that become engineers
are allowed to design a car. They know NOTHING of Mopar history. We now have a company that calls a 4 DOOR CAR a Charger. One of the true Mopar cars. Dont get me wrong the new charger is a descent looking car but DONT CALL IT A CHARGER YOU MORONS!!! They are sticking wings on trucks and making a new Challenger by simply cutting two doors off a family car. I am Mopar to the bone but this new breed is total CRAP!!! I just bought my wife our 2nd Toyota.....I would have NEVER even considered such in the day. REAL Mopar died in the '70's.......
Thanks, Im done.
mopar to the bone... but hes on his second Toyota...
dont take it personal, you can buy whatever you want, but I AM mopar to the bone and it makes me laugh when someone drives a toyota or ford (or whatever), but claims to bleed mopar...
Guess what, your "Mopar" is now made in Canada. Your HEMI has a mercedees transmission behind it and Toyota is now using the frame and rear coilover suspension from the Ram on the Tundra.....I wonder where the "FIAT" symbols will go on that 4 DOOR Charger you drive?
I have raced Mopar all my life and always will. I pull with an '08 Ram. I still say TODAYS Chrysler is CRAP. To "ME" Mopar is the old stuff... By the way, based on looks alone, a new Toyota 4Runner or a new Dodge Durango....yea, keep on bleeding.
Last edited by DaKuda; 06/03/09 07:40 AM.
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: CokeBottleKid]
#335850
06/03/09 07:33 AM
06/03/09 07:33 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,015
Down South
DaKuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,015
Down South
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Quote:
Quote:
Chrysler has turned to TOTAL CRAP!!!! Those cars are WAY too heavy. This is what you get when a bunch of "college" kids that become engineers
are allowed to design a car. They know NOTHING of Mopar history. We now have a company that calls a 4 DOOR CAR a Charger. One of the true Mopar cars. Dont get me wrong the new charger is a descent looking car but DONT CALL IT A CHARGER YOU MORONS!!! They are sticking wings on trucks and making a new Challenger by simply cutting two doors off a family car. I am Mopar to the bone but this new breed is total CRAP!!! I just bought my wife our 2nd Toyota.....I would have NEVER even considered such in the day. REAL Mopar died in the '70's.......
Thanks, Im done.
You do realize engineers have little say in the general design of the car (size, weight etc)? That's all setup by 'business' people who think they know what Americans want.
Thanks - soon to be college grad engineer aiming to enter the auto industry...
I am a Computer Programmer....6 year degree. Wanted to enter the auto industry. Decided not too.....good luck.
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