Moparts
DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry
Posted By: Ron Silva
DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 04:07 AM
Some of you may know I bought a new 09 SRT8 Every Option 6 Speed Challenger. I saved my money from the very day I saw the first concept at MATS several years ago and then I paid cash for that car. Anyhow, that car was BITCHEN. It ruled the freeway and I loved the Navigation and the sunroof and I loved the sound going through the gears etc...
BUT: It had extremely bad wheel hop and it also TOTALLY let me down at the track. Basically it was a dog. I have talked to a couple people that are "in the know" and they told me those cars are "all over the place". Performance wise. Needless to say I could not get a good start because of the wheel hop issue, but regardless, it only would run 101 MPH at Fontana. And, that was with the air filter out. At Irwindale it picked up 2 MPH in the 1/8th removing the filter. So I suspect at Fontana, totally stock with the filter in it might have only run 99MPH?? SHEESH! Sure it probably would pick up a couple MPH if I could get a better launch, but it is NEVER going to be 108MPH where it should be or even close. Me and Sloan talked about it in depth and he even asked the Guys over at Westech for me and no one could offer a solution. You can't just take it to the dealer and say "it only ran 101 in the quarter with the air filter removed. Something's wrong".
Needless to say, I SOLD the car after 4 months and 5700 miles of driving it every day. Lost $9500. I could not deal with it, so it had to go.......
Here is the BIGGEST [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] I have. I want to get another one. But I have no way of figuring out how to make sure I get a good one. Buy a used one that you know a Guy had been racing it? Do you think a dealer would guarantee the car's performance?
Posted By: ChrisJohnston669
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 04:09 AM
There is a couple RTs at my local track that are fast and seem to be running somewhat consistent. I don't know enough about them to give you solid input lol.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 04:10 AM
i have heard the R/T's are actually better than the SRT's performance wise.
Casey
Posted By: Lil Demon
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 04:20 AM
Why not just take it for a test drive on a stret drag night at the track? Tell the salesman if it runs 107+ in the 1/4, you'll buy it.
Posted By: Anonymous
Post deleted by Defbob - 06/02/09 04:25 AM
Posted By: Triple Threat
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 04:30 AM
There does seem to be great disparity between what some of the SRT8's run compared to the others. I've been racing with a group of late model LX guys recently and some of the cars run hard, while others don't.
If i was in the market i'd be looking at an R/T, but i wish you could get the nicer SRT seats as an option.
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 04:35 AM
It's strange, but I had NO interest in throwing mods at that car "just to get it to run what it should". Plus I had the car and already paid good money for it. I was not going to spend a lot more $$ on it modding it. It was not intended to race. It was my daily driver. I have the Valiant to race. It was just a MAJOR dissapointment when I took it to the track.
I also posted this because I think you Guys should know what is going on. There is a good percentage of dogs out there in the Challenger world.
I get darn near every magazine there is and I saw lots of articles. Every magazine tested SRT8 Ran 108 or 109, did not matter if it was an auto or 6 Speed. I think Dodge supplied some ringers. Very few (if any) regular production cars have run that dead stock that I have seen. Of course I don't know everything, I guess........
Posted By: moparlulu
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 04:47 AM
Quote:
It's strange, but I had NO interest in throwing mods at that car "just to get it to run what it should". Plus I had the car and already paid good money for it. I was not going to spend a lot more $$ on it modding it. It was not intended to race. It was my daily driver. I have the Valiant to race. It was just a MAJOR dissapointment when I took it to the track.
I also posted this because I think you Guys should know what is going on. There is a good percentage of dogs out there in the Challenger world.
I get darn near every magazine there is and I saw lots of articles. Every magazine tested SRT8 Ran 108 or 109, did not matter if it was an auto or 6 Speed. I think Dodge supplied some ringers. Very few (if any) regular production cars have run that dead stock that I have seen. Of course I don't know everything, I guess........
I ran into the same with our 04 srt4 best pass was a 14.40 @ 96 I think. Granted, we run at 5 to 5500 corrected most of the time, But come on!
Posted By: cudadoug
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 05:41 AM
What the...?? You lost 9500 on a new Chally because of wheel hop and didn't run what the mags said it would????? But it wasn't a race car as you've said. Wow...
So what was your answer was when a buyer said "Why are you selling it?"
Posted By: Bigcube
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 10:09 AM
Wow, I think I would have been upset too, but I don't think I would have sold it because it won't run the number. It's interesting there can be that much difference between cars.
Posted By: Frito
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 10:28 AM
I just got home yesterday with a R/T Classic. I would not consider it a race car but just like the old days of HOT RODDING, you sometimes have to "work harder" to be fast. There are a lot of mods avaliabe. Go to the track more than once, make one change at a time, sometimes you will go faster, sometimes slower but you will learn something each pass. The elusive 107 MPH is out there,You just needed to look a little farther.
Posted By: smokinwoody
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 10:42 AM
its a heavy car...
I read your post and I couldnt believe you just sold it like that...how was the car on the street?
theres a guy near me that has one..its an R/T with the 5.7 hemi...I asked him how was the performance...he said it was adequate..he said it was no race car in no means but likes the car..
you have to do what makes you happy...
Posted By: HPMike
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 10:51 AM
Quote:
its a heavy car...
I think that is the primary problem....
Me, personally, would have accepted the "Challenge" and found the power and/or corrected the faults needed to get it where it should be and then some. It's not magic. But I am sympathetic to your sutuation, however.
MB
Posted By: B1Fish540
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 10:55 AM
I think I would have at least taken to a chassis dyno. and then figure out the wheel hop issue. But its your car...or was..so you have a right to do what you wanted with it.
Posted By: Dodgetony
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 11:33 AM
Since buying my Challenger Rt I have gotten quite intimate with them and learned alot. My Rt ran 13.12 @ 108 bone stock (with the air filter removed). Several people from this board were even there to see it run that day. On the same token my friends with an SRT8 6 spd are having the same issues you described. The wheel hop is unbearable and the car ran low 14's at just 100 mph. They added some drag radials and ran a 13.30 @ 106...but still not where my 5.7 ran stock. Something seems wrong to me with this.
Like you mentioned "getting a good one" can be elusive. There does seem to be a wide variation of performance in these cars.
Knowing what I know now, if I was to buy another one I would definitely get an automatic, and buy used from a guy that has some performance numbers to back the car up. Plus you won't take the $9K+ hit.
As mentioned, the RT's seem to be running with the SRT's and sometimes better. It is becoming more common to see the RT running low 13's with the auto.
Good luck if you decide to buy another one.
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 11:41 AM
That really sucks, is there a difference between cali cars and non? can the computer read a lower grade fuel in cali and pull timing?
i have also heard the 5.7 are faster, how embarrasing
Posted By: 9SecRoadRunner
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 01:04 PM
most likely the magazines are using "corrected" times in print so you cant really go by that
Posted By: kingdust
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 01:25 PM
Did you figure out what those numbers would be at sea level?(Corrected altitude) my friend ran a 13.2 with a bone stock 5.7 auto.at e town. I seen some 6.1s running high 12s with just drag radials.I think if you worked on your launch with some drag radials you could have done better.then again it could have been 1 of those cars built on a friday night or monday morning if you know what I mean! My 07 charger r/t runs 14.0 at 100 with my wife driving. If you buy another, get a 5.7, it'll probably run just as fast and you can save a few bucks this time. Good luck.
Posted By: jim sciortino
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 01:33 PM
For the money you spent on that overweight JUNK, you could have built a REAL (and waaaaaay better looking) Chally and had a fast car.
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 01:43 PM
I hate to say it, but I think you jumpped the gun, Those 20" rims on them cant help in your dilemma. I agree the 9500 you lost would have "fixed" your suspension issues...
Kasey
Posted By: RodStRace
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 01:48 PM
I don't doubt your story and that there are 'faster' and 'slower' cars being built. I do know that they have adaptive memory, and driving like a little old lady all week will cause it to 'learn' that type of driving and probably affects Saturday's times.
It seems you went in with rose tinted glasses after reading everything you could about these cars, expecting to be able to hop in and match pro drivers' times and performance. After failing at that, the whole ownership soured to the point where you sold it off. I know that if I were selling new cars, there is no way I'd let a customer take out the inventory and beat on them to select the one he liked best. Don't they have to break in first anyway? I think the only solution is to buy used from a racer.
Posted By: BobR
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 01:58 PM
Quote:
I don't doubt your story and that there are 'faster' and 'slower' cars being built. I do know that they have adaptive memory, and driving like a little old lady all week will cause it to 'learn' that type of driving and probably affects Saturday's times.
It seems you went in with rose tinted glasses after reading everything you could about these cars, expecting to be able to hop in and match pro drivers' times and performance. After failing at that, the whole ownership soured to the point where you sold it off. I know that if I were selling new cars, there is no way I'd let a customer take out the inventory and beat on them to select the one he liked best. Don't they have to break in first anyway? I think the only solution is to buy used from a racer.
At our last PSCA race in Fontana there was an orange Challenger SRT8 with drag radials running 11.20's at 123. I'm sure this car wasn't bone stock but he was running it through full exhaust. Just shows what's possible with the correct add-ons.
Posted By: PolyDart
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 02:24 PM
Quote:
i have heard the R/T's are actually better than the SRT's performance wise.
I wouldn't guarantee that... I've seen an R/T at our local track never make it out of the 14s... 
Posted By: BB70DUSTER
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 03:15 PM
$9500 hit for 7 mph??? maybe it had a injector problem, maybe it was in the programming? or maybe just all the added weight in all the options you had? I think I would have tried some tuning, and who really cares in a daily driver? I can understand how it would suck to get a "dog" but still a nice car with TONS of potential...
Posted By: PUNK
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 03:39 PM
That car that dragrcr97 had was very nice. However, when a manufacturer makes a claim that seems to be backed up by all the magazines that simply doesnt stack up to real world performance with the car that you purchase; the excitement over the car kinda wilts away. I know Ron and believe me, he talked to anyone and everyone that was somebody at the dealers and to people that are in the know on these cars along with many intelligent car guys. Basically with the vehicle not having a driveability problem or check engine light on; the dealer couldnt fix anything just because the car didnt run what the magazines claimed. Another friend of mine ran at the SAME track with his wifes SRT8 300C 108mph and it IS bone stock. Rons Challenger for some reason seamed to be a DOG in performance. I must admit, I was even dissapointed and I am not the one that purchased it. Personally, I would have sold it to being that the manufacturer or dealer couldnt have done anything about it. Why spend extra money on the car to make it run what its supposed to. Dragrcr97s Dad had a new 2007? Vette with an auto when they first came out, they took it to the track and it exceeded our expectations. It was an automatic and it ran high 12s at well over 107 maybe higher, I cant remember because its a CHevy. I simply couldnt deal with having a SRT8 Challenger knowing that it doesnt run what it should only to have some dude in a Mustang GT pull up next to you and go door handle to door handle or worse and beat you. Thats not Representing. The Mopars have to be faster guys. STOCK! Having a slow car that you have to throw tons of money at to make fast is for foreign cars guys. Its an SRT8 CHallenger for cryin out loud, its supposed to be fast and then if you want to throw money at it, its will be REAL fast. Oh well...I would have sold it to. It was seriously one of the nicest looking and driving cars I have ever been in. I would love to have one....only if its fast like the magazines claim however.
On another note, does anyone know if the RT Challengers have aluminum blocks vs. the cast iron block of the SRT8??? ANYONE? ANYONE?
Posted By: PolyDart
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 03:47 PM
I was just thinking some more about this.
While Dodge may not have guaranteed a specific ET from the car, their specs do claim their engine makes a specific amount of horsepower. Manufacturers have been successfully sued when their engines did not perform up to, or close to spec. It would be deceptive advertising to claim 425HP and only pump out 325...
Thing is, unless I knew others had the same problem and got it taken care of by the factory, I couldn't see plunking down the 40+ grand hoping that the factory would make good. Hell, in their current situation, there may not even be a manufacturer left.
The 101 mph speed you were seeing tells me the motor was really down on power or you were running at a high altitude. My '04 Mach 1 with "only" 310 rated HP ran 13.80 at 101. Lighter car, but still... that 425HP hemi should do better than that.
Posted By: Dodgetony
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 03:48 PM
The RT has Cast iron blocks also.
Posted By: HPMike
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 04:19 PM
Maybe someone put too much oil in it?? It's surprising how much power is lost if the motor has too much oil in it.
MB
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 04:27 PM
Sloan has a good point. I was not going to be out there on the street (or the track) and have my butt handed to me by a mustang GT or worse, an import.
When I was at the track, with one of the most BITCHEN cars to come out in a long time, and someone would literally RUN up to me and ask "did you run it yet, what did it run"? (with stars in their eyes!) Then all I could do is slink down in the seat and lie or avoid the question. I decided right then and there, ME and that CAR would never go to the drag strip again. Period.
You also have to realize that I did not have an ADDITIONAL $9500 to spend on the car. I LOST $9500 when I sold it. I did not have that money to spend on mods like has been suggested. Plus I did not want to modify it. Period.
The $9500 included tax and liscense and I did get some use out of the car. I had a lot of fun with it.
The car ran perfect so I could not take it to the dealer, and then again, what would I say?
Also note, I was strictly going by Pure stock MPH. I was not going by ET. I think if I had the air filter in the MPH probably would have been 98 or 99 MPH. And yes it would improve at sea level and yes it would improve with a better launch, but not that much. Some of you are wishful thinkers, but I am realistic.
Thanks, Ron.
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 04:28 PM
The oil level was normal to low. That car burned 2 quarts in the first 5000 miles.
Posted By: Triple Threat
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 04:30 PM
Quote:
The oil level was normal to low. That car burned 2 quarts in the first 5000 miles.
That's scary
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 04:34 PM
I think I would have tried to sovle the problems beofre eating $9500. It's not a race car you know. It's a mid size coupe with a big motor. The test cars are run under most ideal conditions w/ professional drivers. Maybe you could have tried to launch it differently, shifted at dofferent points. To expect it to run peak numbers after a handful of trails is expecting too much. Especially w/ a 6 speed. a few rpm here a few there can make a big difference in times and mph.
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 04:38 PM
Quote:
The oil level was normal to low. That car burned 2 quarts in the first 5000 miles.
Im a shop manager in a dealership, that oil burned alone would have convinced me to fix your car, there is all kinds of people in chryslers reserch department I could have called for you, star center on line, or other engineers that could help you out.
If any one of you guys here have any problems like that again seriously just give me a call, I can call Russ in the engineering dept at chrysler, we have gone rounds before, and he has always been very happy to help me out.
Kasey
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 04:42 PM
I did not mean to start an oil burning controversy. I checked the oil at every fillup. It was never more than a quart low because I added when necessary. NO dealer I know of would ever do anything about burning a quart of oil in 2500 miles. NONE. ESPECIALLY in a new Engine. So you must be one in a million. Thanks.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 04:43 PM
Quote:
I did not mean to start an oil burning controversy. I checked the oil at every fillup. It was never more than a quart low because I added when necessary. NO dealer I know of would ever do anything about burning a quart of oil in 2500 miles. NONE. ESPECIALLY in a new Engine. So you must be one in a million. Thanks.
that seems excessive to me. My 5.2 dakota doesn't go thru that amount in 3500miles and it has 148k on it. Why would a new engine require that much oil comsumpsion?
Posted By: Devilbrad
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 04:52 PM
Did you run with or without the traction control on? What tire pressure? What launch RPM?
Posted By: R_Blaha
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 04:53 PM
If your not happy with your old challenger most likely you will not be happy with a new one as well. If I was in your shoes I would be looking at the new camaro ss or GT500 and test drive them both compaired to your challenger. Pick the favorite of the 3 cars after you drove them.
Posted By: PolyDart
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 05:39 PM
Quote:
The car ran perfect so I could not take it to the dealer, and then again, what would I say?
You could have said that the car was not producing the advertised horsepower and it wasn't even close. The formulas which give you horse power numbers from the cars weight, and MPH in the quarter are pretty close, armed with that and dyno data, you would have had a case to show that the car was not running as well as it appeared.
They can't just advertise that a car has X amount of horsepower and sell cars which don't come close, they have to back it up within a certain percentage.
Posted By: PolyDart
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 05:43 PM
Quote:
The oil level was normal to low. That car burned 2 quarts in the first 5000 miles.
I would have demanded they run a leak down and compression test.
Posted By: BB70DUSTER
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 05:44 PM
Ron, did you ever try to tune it? reprogram? reflash? or even just hook it up to a scanner and see if anything looked suspicious? Im not all that familiar with newer mopars, but I am with newer GM... its amazing what a reprogram can fix...
Posted By: R_Blaha
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 05:57 PM
Quote:
Quote:
The car ran perfect so I could not take it to the dealer, and then again, what would I say?
You could have said that the car was not producing the advertised horsepower and it wasn't even close. The formulas which give you horse power numbers from the cars weight, and MPH in the quarter are pretty close, armed with that and dyno data, you would have had a case to show that the car was not running as well as it appeared.
They can't just advertise that a car has X amount of horsepower and sell cars which don't come close, they have to back it up within a certain percentage.
only problem with that is they will pull your warranty, they were doing that on the neon forums for people racing their neons. The only way would be to strap the car on a dyno and get the numbers that way.
Posted By: PolyDart
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 06:12 PM
http://www.autoblog.com/2004/06/22/hyundai-settles-overstated-horsepower-lawsuit/Hyundai Motor America will be parting with $30 million in order to make up for the horsepower numbers it fudged over the past decade. Up to 858,000 Hyundai owners can get in on the class-action suit, which has been resolved with Hyundai offering debit cards worth $50 to $225 in regular currency or cards worth slightly more when used at Hyundai dealers. Power figures were off by almost 20-hp on a few V6 models, but many Hyundai owners saw a much smaller difference, for instance a so-called 140-hp Elantra packed a mere 136. 120,000 owners have already stepped forward and the final tally will most likely be close to 200,000, of which one or two may have actually taken horsepower into consideration before purchasing their Hyundai.
==========
http://consumeraffairs.com/news03/mazda_buyback.htmlSeptember 5, 2003
Mazda is offering to buy back all of the 2004-model RX-8 sports cars sold in the United States because the car's rotary engine produces 4.8 percent less horsepower than expected.
Customers who choose to keep their cars will get free maintenance for four years and $500 in parts and accessories, the company said. Letters went out to registered owners in late August.
Mazda initially said the manual-transmission RX-8 would produce 247 horsepower, the automatic version 207. But after making modifications to meet U.S. emission rules, the correct figures were 238 and 197, Mazda said.
============
Those are just a couple examples. The same happened with Ford a few years ago. Just can't remember the details or find a link.
Posted By: Anonymous
Post deleted by Defbob - 06/02/09 06:25 PM
Posted By: Devilbrad
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 06:28 PM
I'm picking my SRT8 6 speed up Thursday night. I will be sending it down the track Saturday. I will report my times.
Posted By: topfueldart
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 06:37 PM
Sorry to hear about your woes... I agree 100 percent, that car should easily go 108+, probably more like 111 on drag radials... I just dont see how the cars can have such a disparity unless its just in the tune or the adaptive learning. I wonder how much adding just a chip would've been worth MPH wise...
Unfortunately I think your like most of us hot rodders in the feeling that the overall performance is more important than the vehicle. Its sad these cars are such a let down. Dollar for dollar, I dont think I could convince myself to buy a Challenger.
My best friends 04 Cobra has 3 mods. Chip, Pulley, and Drag Radials. Its been 11.78 @ 117.
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 06:41 PM
I thought about scanning it, but I do not have a scanner. I don't think your $25 Pep Boys scanners will work. Plus the car ran perfect in all situations. It was just not a brutal as it should be. I understand how most everything works and the fact that something could be wrong and not throw a code. But, since it did not throw any codes and it had no drivability problems whatsoever, I was thinking it would be something that was not so easy to see. Like I said, I had Sloan ask the Guys at Westech what they thought about dynoing it and checking out the computer and they flat out deffered. They said there was not much they could do with the Chrysler software. I was willing to pay them to drive it, dyno it and scope it to see if something could be done.
I also had no hope that any dealer would be sympathetic to my plight. In fact, I was worried about them going after my warranty like was already mentioned. All these dealers nowadays seem to do everything they can to avoid doing anything for you under warranty. Or you spend all day there and they give it back and say, "no problem found". Which really means they didn't get to it and they just wasted the whole day you took off of work.
I wasn't going to keep the car hoping there would be a class action lawsuit. Which is not likely. So now it is 2 years old or more and worth-less and where am I? I dumped it while it was still new and desireable to a new Owner. "sometimes you just have to cut your losses".
Posted By: dusturbd340W5
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 06:44 PM
but it gets back to are you buying a race car or a cool azz street car to take a 9500 hit on a new car is nuts if you ask me I would rather cruise it around and tinker with it as funds permite and as far as getting it handed to you by a Rustang 95% of them that people own that would want to street race you have mods done to them so cant compare a stock car to a modded car.
Posted By: BB70DUSTER
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 07:22 PM
Quote:
I don't think your $25 Pep Boys scanners will work.
"your"? 
Posted By: CokeBottleKid
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 07:38 PM
May I suggest the driver mod? I'm close the next time you have an SRT-8 in your hands you want to track test
.
Seriously though if it doesn't run the number obviously something's wrong. You should've stuck it on the dyno with some flow meters (air flow and maybe fuel flow if possible) and gone at it.
If it's burning that much oil I'd expect quite a bit of detonation, possibly pulling tons of timing and maybe even throttle. Did you ever think to check throttle position? You know these things are drive by wire...
Posted By: TMP66
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 07:44 PM
Quote:
Needless to say, I SOLD the car after 4 months and 5700 miles of driving it every day. Lost $9500. I could not deal with it, so it had to go.......
Here is the BIGGEST [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] I have. I want to get another one. But I have no way of figuring out how to make sure I get a good one.
This is a joke?...right?
All you Moparts members losing your jobs, complete careers, home values, etc. these days thought you had problems. 
Posted By: V10nacuda
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 07:50 PM
Not to throw salt in your wounds. But from my experience dragging a newer stick shift car & I hardly ever drive a stick. It TAKES alot to get the shifting right. When we were tuning my brothers 05 Stang & traveling around the Fun Ferd events It took me quite awhile to get the shifting down as good as the other guy driving. That EQUATED to almost a second!!!!!!!!!! Also if you didn't speed shift it forget about a good ET.
V10
Posted By: Devilbrad
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 07:53 PM
Quote:
Not to throw salt in your wounds. But from my experience dragging a newer stick shift car & I hardly ever drive a stick. It TAKES alot to get the shifting right. When we were tuning my brothers 05 Stang & traveling around the Fun Ferd events It took me quite awhile to get the shifting down as good as the other guy driving. That EQUATED to almost a second!!!!!!!!!! Also if you didn't speed shift it forget about a good ET.
V10
Thats why I asked if he had traction control on or off (still waiting for an answer). If its on. every time you shift and screech the tires, it pulls all kinds of timing and uses the brakes to control wheel speed. That will kill your et and mph.
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 08:07 PM
Throttle position is easy with a driveability test. Now, can I tell you is it going 100% open while driving? No. But will it really make that much difference?
Anyhow since it is a manual you could drive it at lower RPM and whack the throttle open and you do get that deep sound that is associated with a lugging/laboring WOT motor. Otherwise how would you suggest I do it without a DRBII ? I never did check it, but I am not sure the throttle would sweep with KOEO. Maybe if there is a WOT stop on the throtle body you could clay it up and drive and check. Honestly I never checked.
It very easily could be something like an over active knock sensor pulling timing too often or all the time. Could be just overtorqued. But like I said. Try to get a dealer to check it out. And if you could get them to listen to you then how can you be sure they are not going to go after your warrantee etc. I agree that should not be the case especially since they put quarter mile timers in the electronic vehicle information display. I guess the biggest hurdle would be to get a service dept to do anything beyond checking for codes and to convince them it is down on power.
Fred you are such a Gentleman. I too have wasted money a few times over the years....... And don't get me wrong. I had a lot of fun with that car and I am not crying. Like I said before, it is something to think about if you are considering buying one and if it matters all that much to you or not. I am more trying to share info and get yall's ideas. Make people aware.
Posted By: PUNK
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 08:23 PM
I am sure the "ET" of the car isnt the real concern here because the traction sucked. Its the MPH people!!! The MPH is the power. I dont really care if you are Mr. 4 Speed, you arent going to get the cars MPH to change 8-10 mph because you can or cant shift that fast or launch the car. Now if this Challenger in question had the MPH that was expected, but the ET was horrible; Im sure this car would still be in the same driveway. The lack of ET could have been chalked up to poor traction, slow shifting (which wasnt the case I can assure you), or just too aggressive launching but the MPH Im sure would have been within a few MPH. My friends Cobra Mustangs, Our 69 Cuda, my friends Z06 vette and my wifes old 02 GT mustang would MPH almost identical when the cars hooked as they did when they spun. What Im saying is ET has nothing to do with this topic, its strictly MPH. MPH is power and this car had little MPH.
It would be nice to think that a dealer would have dug deep into the no MPH concern by checking the cam, its timing, and all the other variables responsible for making the car make power and run smooth, but I say its a FAT chance.
I say, "Off with its head"!!! Now lets move to the next car. LOL.
I
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 08:27 PM
OK, here is your answer. On MY Challenger that I had the traction control made no difference in quarter mile SPEEDS. And probably not ET's either. Remember, I had to walk it out since it wheelhopped so bad and if it spun I had to pedal it. On the street it wheelhopped about 50% of the time. But just so you know, I tried it all different ways. When I was at Irwindale I tried it all 3 ways and it had no obvious effect. Left it on one time by mistake (no change) and tried it partially disabled and full off. The only thing that changed it at all was removing the air filter added 2 MPH, which in the 1/8th is substantial.
AND: in fact I did a test just to see what would happen because I never saw anyone post any info on this on the challenger web site I went on. I think most Guys were afraid of looking like a dork if they tried to do a burnout and left the traction control on.
Dry street at a dead stop. With traction control full ON, how it is when normal driving after you start the car and drive off, not defeated or partially disabled : Rev engine to 5000 and dump the clutch the traction control does NOTHING for 2 to 3 car lengths. It will even leave dark marks on the street. It will spin and spin and spin and the traction control light is blinking the whole time. Just about the time you are going to top out in first gear and the wheel speed and road speed are going to match the traction control decides to take some action and dial back the power. So how you think it is going to do something on a shift to second is beyond me. I also have laid down some pretty good second gear rubber on a speed shift on the street with the traction control full on. Ones where you can hear it burning rubber. Sorry, but that is not it.
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 08:38 PM
No salt in my wounds. I am not mad. I did what I did and I am happy with my descision. I was dissapointed with that particular car and it sucks I lost money. Life goes on and like was said/pointed out, many people have much worse problems. I know I am lucky and I am not trying to downplay that and I don't discount that. I am sorry you felt the need to play that card. This post is about a Dodge Challenger and how it did not live up to expectations. The money was mentioned just to give a perspective. Thats all.
Trust me, I can shift. A lot of Owners complained about the transmissions shifting. I never had any complaints and mine shifted perfectly. I could speed shift it with ease and NEVER missed a shift in that car. Not once. And I am talking about all driving conditions. That is one thing I can reccommend if you like a manual. It was awesome and the sound of the exhaust was perfect stock.
Ron.
Posted By: BB70DUSTER
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 09:34 PM
sounds like you should have put a carburetor on it... lol
Posted By: Sam Robinson
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/02/09 09:55 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I don't doubt your story and that there are 'faster' and 'slower' cars being built. I do know that they have adaptive memory, and driving like a little old lady all week will cause it to 'learn' that type of driving and probably affects Saturday's times.
It seems you went in with rose tinted glasses after reading everything you could about these cars, expecting to be able to hop in and match pro drivers' times and performance. After failing at that, the whole ownership soured to the point where you sold it off. I know that if I were selling new cars, there is no way I'd let a customer take out the inventory and beat on them to select the one he liked best. Don't they have to break in first anyway? I think the only solution is to buy used from a racer.
At our last PSCA race in Fontana there was an orange Challenger SRT8 with drag radials running 11.20's at 123. I'm sure this car wasn't bone stock but he was running it through full exhaust. Just shows what's possible with the correct add-ons.
The car had a supercharger on it. We had to kick him out for not having a rollbar or jacket.
Posted By: PUNK
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 10:04 PM
I personally spoke with the guys over at Westech which is a dyno and tuning facility located in Ontario California. They are very well known for there dyno and tuning facilities that HotRod and Car Craft magazine use for many of there engine testing and tuning along with chassis tuning. I asked them specifically about the tuneability of this vehicle and whether or not they could check this vehicle out and see if there was something they could do about it. They said. "NOPE" I was told that even if they could "Program" out the reason that it isnt making power, there was no guarantee that the program would "Stick". Evidently Chryslers software was designed to dissallow tampering. There have been many attempts at reflashing the PCMs but the duration of time that the reflash lasts is temporary at the best. They told me that Chrysler is far ahead of the other manufacturers when it comes to "tamper proofing" there software. The GM and Ford stuff evidently is a piece of cake. I respect these guys alot as I have used there dyno facilities and had fuel injected engines tuned there without any issues. The guys over at Westech basically told me that if the dealer/manufacturer couldnt fix this one, the aftermarket guys certainly wont with a mere "tune". They also felt there was more to it than just the tune. Bummer indeed. The car was truelly awesome with the exception of the performance. I saw no reason for that car NOT to turn a 12.9 at 110mph since my friends wifes SRT8 300C went low 13s at 108 at the same track. STOCK!! Oh wait... he chromed the wheels.
Posted By: Dodgetony
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/02/09 10:50 PM
Quote:
I personally spoke with the guys over at Westech which is a dyno and tuning facility located in Ontario California. They are very well known for there dyno and tuning facilities that HotRod and Car Craft magazine use for many of there engine testing and tuning along with chassis tuning. I asked them specifically about the tuneability of this vehicle and whether or not they could check this vehicle out and see if there was something they could do about it. They said. "NOPE" I was told that even if they could "Program" out the reason that it isnt making power, there was no guarantee that the program would "Stick". Evidently Chryslers software was designed to dissallow tampering. There have been many attempts at reflashing the PCMs but the duration of time that the reflash lasts is temporary at the best. They told me that Chrysler is far ahead of the other manufacturers when it comes to "tamper proofing" there software. The GM and Ford stuff evidently is a piece of cake. I respect these guys alot as I have used there dyno facilities and had fuel injected engines tuned there without any issues. The guys over at Westech basically told me that if the dealer/manufacturer couldnt fix this one, the aftermarket guys certainly wont with a mere "tune". They also felt there was more to it than just the tune. Bummer indeed. The car was truelly awesome with the exception of the performance. I saw no reason for that car NOT to turn a 12.9 at 110mph since my friends wifes SRT8 300C went low 13s at 108 at the same track. STOCK!! Oh wait... he chromed the wheels.
I am not arguing with you but something is not right there. These car are completely tunable. I have a diablo predator tuner and we tuned it on the chassis dyno. Then on top of the Predator tuner, there is CMR software that is able to make drastic changes in the program. Many...many people are tuning these cars and the tune don't just go away or not "stick". It is there until the owner removes it and replaces the stock tune.
I currently run two tunes, one for NA and one for Nitrous.
That shop must not have the CMR software for the Challengers yet.
Posted By: bad360rt
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 12:06 AM
Quote:
I'm picking my SRT8 6 speed up Thursday night. I will be sending it down the track Saturday. I will report my times.
Very nice, didn't know you were getting one. I'd love to park a black 6 speed R/T next to the Dak.
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 12:15 AM
Tony, I think the difference might be that I was asking to correct the stock tune. Not for a performance tune. For instance, if the knock sensors were pulling timing out and they programmed it to not do that , eventually it would pull the timing out anyways.
Or it could be what you say. Mopars are always the last ones to be learned in the performance world, and maybe they did not know about the new sofware etc...Either way, I thought they would be my best shot locally.
Posted By: Dodgetony
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 12:36 AM
Quote:
Tony, I think the difference might be that I was asking to correct the stock tune. Not for a performance tune. For instance, if the knock sensors were pulling timing out and they programmed it to not do that , eventually it would pull the timing out anyways.
Or it could be what you say. Mopars are always the last ones to be learned in the performance world, and maybe they did not know about the new sofware etc...Either way, I thought they would be my best shot locally.
I see what you are saying. With CMR software they can modify the knock sensor settings. I bet they did not have it yet. My local chassis dyno does not have it yet either. From what you are describing I bet you were fighting short and long term knock. When I was first running nitrous I could actually feel the car "pulling back". My data logs showed the ST knock was killing it....pulling 16 degrees. That is when I got a CMR custom tune that eliminated the problem. I can run a nitrous pass all the way and not pull any timing...and you can really feel the difference.
To your defense..you should not have had to mess with any of that with a stock car. It is a shame it ran the way it did for you..it is an awesome looking car.
Posted By: CokeBottleKid
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 12:39 AM
Ya sounds like Westech just doesn't know fuel injected mopars
.
You're kind of missing the point, you shouldn't NEED to compensate problems with the ECU, if it's reading a bunch of knock counts good chance it IS KNOCKING or you have a bad knock sensor... so you fix the problem (burning tons of oil, or replace the knock sensor).
Posted By: Devilbrad
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 12:39 AM
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I'm picking my SRT8 6 speed up Thursday night. I will be sending it down the track Saturday. I will report my times.
Very nice, didn't know you were getting one. I'd love to park a black 6 speed R/T next to the Dak.
Thas because you dont spend enough time in the cat house!!! LOL
Posted By: Devilbrad
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 12:46 AM
Quote:
OK, here is your answer. ...........Sorry, but that is not it.
Sorry, wasnt trying to tell you that you couldnt drive, was just curious as to your launch techniques and such. As I stated I should be picking mine up Thursday night and will have it at the track Saturday. As for the knock retard...is that what your car was doing? With the oil consumption I could totally see that happening. Curious what the new owner is experiencing with the car.
Posted By: moparniac
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 12:49 AM
I would have taken it back to the dealer and said it had a shimmy or was missing for them to diagostic it
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/03/09 01:13 AM
SOunds like after reading the posts...and I'm a rookie compaired to most you had a problem w/ oil leakage somehow. It will cause knocking. reguardless of the age or milage 2 qt's in 2500 miles is a ton. This would no doubt kill performance. Did you ever pull a plug? I mean MAN that's a LOT of oil to be burning up.
Posted By: PUNK
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 02:11 AM
[quote
I am not arguing with you but something is not right there. These car are completely tunable. I have a diablo predator tuner and we tuned it on the chassis dyno. Then on top of the Predator tuner, there is CMR software that is able to make drastic changes in the program. Many...many people are tuning these cars and the tune don't just go away or not "stick". It is there until the owner removes it and replaces the stock tune.
I currently run two tunes, one for NA and one for Nitrous.
That shop must not have the CMR software for the Challengers yet.
I understand that there are plenty of aftermarket piggy back tuners. I think; im not sure though that your tuner stays in the car is that right? I think what the shop was talking about was actually rewriting the factory PCM as to not require an outside programmer such as the one that you are talking about. Many of my friends have non-mopar based fuel injected modern muscle cars and they also have the add-on programmers that piggy back the PCM or stay connected to the data link connector. I dont think Ron wanted that. Westech has teh ability to completely rewrite the software for the GM and Ford PCMs but not the Chrysler PCMs. This is what we were after. I believe that ALL the supercharged/turbocharged and big cubic inch modern HEMI cars all use a piggy back type programmable PCM that works in conjunction with the PCM. I dont think any use just a reflashed Factory PCM. I may be wrong though.
Posted By: Dodgetony
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 02:21 AM
Quote:
[quote
I understand that there are plenty of aftermarket piggy back tuners. I think; im not sure though that your tuner stays in the car is that right? I think what the shop was talking about was actually rewriting the factory PCM as to not require an outside programmer such as the one that you are talking about. Many of my friends have non-mopar based fuel injected modern muscle cars and they also have the add-on programmers that piggy back the PCM or stay connected to the data link connector. I dont think Ron wanted that. Westech has teh ability to completely rewrite the software for the GM and Ford PCMs but not the Chrysler PCMs. This is what we were after. I believe that ALL the supercharged/turbocharged and big cubic inch modern HEMI cars all use a piggy back type programmable PCM that works in conjunction with the PCM. I dont think any use just a reflashed Factory PCM. I may be wrong though.
What Diablo Sport has done (Preadtor tuner) has broken into the factory tune. They allow the owner to modify portions of the tune. Actually it is quite comprehensive. Then there are some actual programmers that have the CMR software that can also take this factory tune and modify it even more. These are not actual piggy backs, however actual modifications to the tune that is specifically in your car. Each tune/tuning tool is "married" to your car and your tune. It sounds like the place you guys are referring to does not have the CMR software that allows them to change the factory tune.
But again...it should not have been needed in this case. It is hard to tell, but with the oil consumption (and lack of a catch can I assume) the oil could have been causing the false knock and retarding the timing and fuel. That is just a guess, but in these cars oil getting routed back into the intake is a common cause for timing and fuel retard. That is why one of the first things performance oriented guys add a catch can in between the pvc to catch the blow by.
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 03:37 AM
Chrysler has turned to TOTAL CRAP!!!! Those cars are WAY too heavy. This is what you get when a bunch of "college" kids that become engineers
are allowed to design a car. They know NOTHING of Mopar history. We now have a company that calls a 4 DOOR CAR a Charger. One of the true Mopar cars. Dont get me wrong the new charger is a descent looking car but DONT CALL IT A CHARGER YOU MORONS!!! They are sticking wings on trucks and making a new Challenger by simply cutting two doors off a family car. I am Mopar to the bone but this new breed is total CRAP!!! I just bought my wife our 2nd Toyota.....I would have NEVER even considered such in the day. REAL Mopar died in the '70's.......
Thanks, Im done.
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 03:40 AM
By the way, there is an '09 SRT8 Challenger that runs here at our local track. I beat him 3 times with an '03 Dakota R/T. The truck weighed over 4000lbs and has a factory HP rating of 250!!! This need breed at Chrysler is a bunch of IDIOTS!!!
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 03:46 AM
Just to clarify, the car was not burning that much oil. It was needing to add a second quart when I changed the oil just before I sold it. At about 5500 miles. So that is one quart in 2750 miles. By todays standards that seems like a lot, but may in fact be normal for this motor. And it may have gotten better as it broke in some more.
I will bet that every one of your Guy's race motors burn that much oil in that many miles (if you should ever drive that many miles with a race motor) and it is not causing detonation. Or basically I do not believe one quart in 2750 miles is enough to cause detonation in this motor. I think that question as to the oil level got some of us off track.
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 03:51 AM
Quote:
Just to clarify, the car was not burning that much oil. It was needing to add a second quart when I changed the oil just before I sold it. At about 5500 miles. So that is one quart in 2750 miles. By todays standards that seems like a lot, but may in fact be normal for this motor. And it may have gotten better as it broke in some more.
I will bet that every one of your Guy's race motors burn that much oil in that many miles (if you should ever drive that many miles with a race motor) and it is not causing detonation. Or basically I do not believe one quart in 2750 miles is enough to cause detonation in this motor. I think that question as to the oil level got some of us off track.
Should burn 0=ZERO that new. I have had 2 5.7 HEMI trucks and they used NO oil. They did both make a knocking sound at idle though..... 
Posted By: bigtimeauto
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 04:07 AM
I wonder why...mine runs fine? I bought one of the first ones '08 #2525 got it July 2 of last year. I took it to atco dragway for Mopar Enthusiast magazine with 150 miles on the clock. Mine ran 13.30 107 in drive, traction control on, no air filter. I will tell you this When I shifted my automatic at 6200 it wouldn't run out of the 50's it shifts at 5800 by itself and that's where it ran its best. I have since added a exhaust (probably removed 100 lbs!) but never got back to the track with it. It only has 570 miles on it now so i don't know if the performance drops off in time but it still puts a smile on my face for 4k lbs.
Posted By: CokeBottleKid
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 05:23 AM
Quote:
Chrysler has turned to TOTAL CRAP!!!! Those cars are WAY too heavy. This is what you get when a bunch of "college" kids that become engineers
are allowed to design a car. They know NOTHING of Mopar history. We now have a company that calls a 4 DOOR CAR a Charger. One of the true Mopar cars. Dont get me wrong the new charger is a descent looking car but DONT CALL IT A CHARGER YOU MORONS!!! They are sticking wings on trucks and making a new Challenger by simply cutting two doors off a family car. I am Mopar to the bone but this new breed is total CRAP!!! I just bought my wife our 2nd Toyota.....I would have NEVER even considered such in the day. REAL Mopar died in the '70's.......
Thanks, Im done.
You do realize engineers have little say in the general design of the car (size, weight etc)? That's all setup by 'business' people who think they know what Americans want.
Thanks - soon to be college grad engineer aiming to enter the auto industry...
Posted By: plasticfantastic
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 06:27 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Chrysler has turned to TOTAL CRAP!!!! Those cars are WAY too heavy. This is what you get when a bunch of "college" kids that become engineers
are allowed to design a car. They know NOTHING of Mopar history. We now have a company that calls a 4 DOOR CAR a Charger. One of the true Mopar cars. Dont get me wrong the new charger is a descent looking car but DONT CALL IT A CHARGER YOU MORONS!!! They are sticking wings on trucks and making a new Challenger by simply cutting two doors off a family car. I am Mopar to the bone but this new breed is total CRAP!!! I just bought my wife our 2nd Toyota.....I would have NEVER even considered such in the day. REAL Mopar died in the '70's.......
Thanks, Im done.
mopar to the bone... but hes on his second Toyota...
dont take it personal, you can buy whatever you want, but I AM mopar to the bone and it makes me laugh when someone drives a toyota or ford (or whatever), but claims to bleed mopar...
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 11:32 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Chrysler has turned to TOTAL CRAP!!!! Those cars are WAY too heavy. This is what you get when a bunch of "college" kids that become engineers
are allowed to design a car. They know NOTHING of Mopar history. We now have a company that calls a 4 DOOR CAR a Charger. One of the true Mopar cars. Dont get me wrong the new charger is a descent looking car but DONT CALL IT A CHARGER YOU MORONS!!! They are sticking wings on trucks and making a new Challenger by simply cutting two doors off a family car. I am Mopar to the bone but this new breed is total CRAP!!! I just bought my wife our 2nd Toyota.....I would have NEVER even considered such in the day. REAL Mopar died in the '70's.......
Thanks, Im done.
mopar to the bone... but hes on his second Toyota...
dont take it personal, you can buy whatever you want, but I AM mopar to the bone and it makes me laugh when someone drives a toyota or ford (or whatever), but claims to bleed mopar...
Guess what, your "Mopar" is now made in Canada. Your HEMI has a mercedees transmission behind it and Toyota is now using the frame and rear coilover suspension from the Ram on the Tundra.....I wonder where the "FIAT" symbols will go on that 4 DOOR Charger you drive?
I have raced Mopar all my life and always will. I pull with an '08 Ram. I still say TODAYS Chrysler is CRAP. To "ME" Mopar is the old stuff... By the way, based on looks alone, a new Toyota 4Runner or a new Dodge Durango....yea, keep on bleeding.
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 11:33 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Chrysler has turned to TOTAL CRAP!!!! Those cars are WAY too heavy. This is what you get when a bunch of "college" kids that become engineers
are allowed to design a car. They know NOTHING of Mopar history. We now have a company that calls a 4 DOOR CAR a Charger. One of the true Mopar cars. Dont get me wrong the new charger is a descent looking car but DONT CALL IT A CHARGER YOU MORONS!!! They are sticking wings on trucks and making a new Challenger by simply cutting two doors off a family car. I am Mopar to the bone but this new breed is total CRAP!!! I just bought my wife our 2nd Toyota.....I would have NEVER even considered such in the day. REAL Mopar died in the '70's.......
Thanks, Im done.
You do realize engineers have little say in the general design of the car (size, weight etc)? That's all setup by 'business' people who think they know what Americans want.
Thanks - soon to be college grad engineer aiming to enter the auto industry...
I am a Computer Programmer....6 year degree. Wanted to enter the auto industry. Decided not too.....good luck.
Posted By: GomangoCuda
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 12:31 PM
Quote:
Thanks - soon to be college grad engineer aiming to enter the auto industry...
Quote:
I am a Computer Programmer....6 year degree. Wanted to enter the auto industry. Decided not too.....good luck.
Exactly what I was thinking. I have been involved in various aspects of the Auto Industry since 1970 and it has been a great run but if I had to start now I would be going a different direction. The U.S. Auto Industry has laid off thousands of Engineers in the last few years. Many in the last few months. I doubt if anybody is or will be hiring any time soon. If you are looking for something you can do for 30 years or more then you may want to look elsewhere. Does your school teach Chinese?
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 12:41 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Just to clarify, the car was not burning that much oil. It was needing to add a second quart when I changed the oil just before I sold it. At about 5500 miles. So that is one quart in 2750 miles. By todays standards that seems like a lot, but may in fact be normal for this motor. And it may have gotten better as it broke in some more.
I will bet that every one of your Guy's race motors burn that much oil in that many miles (if you should ever drive that many miles with a race motor) and it is not causing detonation. Or basically I do not believe one quart in 2750 miles is enough to cause detonation in this motor. I think that question as to the oil level got some of us off track.
Should burn 0=ZERO that new. I have had 2 5.7 HEMI trucks and they used NO oil. They did both make a knocking sound at idle though.....
Even my 95 5.2 rattles a ton at the track unless I mix 93 w/ 104. All it has is the mopar computer.
Posted By: Blown69
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/03/09 01:21 PM
The oil burning thing is an issue, I would have had the engine swapped under warranty. If the motor is burning oil, that will affect the performance of the engine (can't have very efficent combustion with oil in the chamber)
As far as the speed at the track, you could have saved yourself 9500 bucks and bought a diablo sport tuner and clicked off mid to low 13's. The tuner allows a more agressive calibration, and it allows you to turn the ESP ALL THE WAY OFF!!! which is a huge issue with the cars (at the drag strip)
Posted By: ZIPPY
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/03/09 01:37 PM
Just about every "stock" one I've seen that clicked off a good pass was not stock, and had the ESP turned completely off. ESP is not just a traction control, it's "torque management" and KILLS power. Pushing the button on the dash does NOT turn it off.
Alot of guys out there are saying their stuff is "stock" when it is not....it's real easy to tell just by listening to their car. At WOT a stock one lays down at every shift, and feels terrible when it does it.
Posted By: BobR
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/03/09 01:38 PM
Quote:
The oil burning thing is an issue, I would have had the engine swapped under warranty. If the motor is burning oil, that will affect the performance of the engine (can't have very efficent combustion with oil in the chamber)
As far as the speed at the track, you could have saved yourself 9500 bucks and bought a diablo sport tuner and clicked off mid to low 13's. The tuner allows a more agressive calibration, and it allows you to turn the ESP ALL THE WAY OFF!!! which is a huge issue with the cars (at the drag strip)
My 300C 5.7 hemi used 2 quarts on the initial oil change(3000 miles). This is no big deal. IMO factory installed oil is too thin so when I changed the oil I used a heavier viscosity and the oil consumption is way down now with 8000 or so miles.
Posted By: bigtimeauto
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/03/09 01:41 PM
Quote:
Just about every "stock" one I've seen that clicked off a good pass was not stock, and had the ESP turned completely off. ESP is not just a traction control, it's "torque management" and KILLS power. Pushing the button on the dash does NOT turn it off.
Alot of guys out there are saying their stuff is "stock" when it is not....it's real easy to tell just by listening to their car. At WOT a stock one lays down at every shift, and feels terrible when it does it.
Mine does that, its annoying especialy with the louder exhaust. will a programer fix that?
Posted By: V10nacuda
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/03/09 02:02 PM
Here's an idea. Get hooked up with another guy with a similar car with PROVEN TIME SLIPS & SWAP CARS FOR A FEW PASSES!!!!
V10
Posted By: 52savoy
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/03/09 02:42 PM
It seems to me that you threw in the towel to early. If it is wheel hopping that bad, there was no reason to look anywhere else for the problem. I would have contacted one of the shops that specialize in hot rodding LX platform cars and fixed the traction issue...shocks, tires,driving style,whatever...then drive it and let the computer re-learn. My experience has been that it can take a month or more for the computer to "learn" my driving habits. There are other things that could have been done. Like letting another Challenger owner who doesn't have problems drive it at the track for their opinion.
Posted By: ZIPPY
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/03/09 02:52 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Just about every "stock" one I've seen that clicked off a good pass was not stock, and had the ESP turned completely off. ESP is not just a traction control, it's "torque management" and KILLS power. Pushing the button on the dash does NOT turn it off.
Alot of guys out there are saying their stuff is "stock" when it is not....it's real easy to tell just by listening to their car. At WOT a stock one lays down at every shift, and feels terrible when it does it.
Mine does that, its annoying especialy with the louder exhaust. will a programer fix that?
I agree it's even more annoying with a louder exhaust, it sounds almost flatulent at each shift. A Diablosport will let you shut it off completely and it will feel more like it should. Highly recommended.
Remember back in the day when a stock Street Hemi car would run 14s or 15s, then after a set of plugs/distributor recurve/lash adjustment/rejet it'd be in the 12s and still proclaimed to be "stock" by the owner? A Diablosport tune is the same thing.
Posted By: Evil Spirit
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/03/09 03:21 PM
I think I would have insisted the dealer at least look in to the oil consumption, or did a leakdown test on your own. If the engine was burning the oil on accel, the oil will cause detonation, and the knock sensor will pull out timing and power. While 1 qt in 3k mi may not warrant a problem in a dealers warranty schedule, it certainly is higher than normal with todays engines. If that failed, I would have tried to get the ECM reflashed; it may not have the right program, or it may be contaminated. The ECM's in these cars do not allow full engine power in the lower gears to limit wheelspin and to protect the drivetrain, (even with the traction control off) and the program may not be ramping the power back up in the higher gears. That's why stock cars nose over on the shifts; it's not a trans issue; the ECM is taking fuel and timing out to protect the trans. The tuner boxes bring the power back with more aggressive timing/fuel curves in the lower gears, and firm up the shifts. I guess it doesn't matter to you now, since the car has been sold; I guess we're just trying to help the next guy who has the issue.
Posted By: EV2 AAR
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/03/09 03:49 PM
I can understand what he is/went going thru with that purchase of the cars and what expectations he had.You read what they are supposed to have for power,given that they are heavy cars,you can expect lower than average 60' times,but the mph should still be there regardless of how fast you can shift a 6spd,even no lift shifting would at best gain you 1-2 tenths,and maybe 1 mph.
Commented in other forums about this already,when you have stock RT's running from 99-108 mph,thats WAY to big of difference!!!!I do really like my 6spd RT,did take it to the track and went a best(stock w/KN drop in filter)
60' 2.138 tires at 25lbs.
ET 13.76
MPH 102.05
ET was right where I expected,but did think it was going to go around 104 for MPH,oh well.Same day,same track,running right next to me was a friends SRT,stock 6spd,MPH was around 104 ish.
With all these reported MPH times being that far off,just kinda sucks as we showed enthusiasum to buy them,but not being what they were portrayed to be sucks,especially laying down the money.
When you're talking 99-108 mph,thats around 60-80+ hp difference!!!How the hell can that be on a supposed production car?????
I geuss the catch can is a good idea to start,as if you're pulling oil in the intake,it sure would do something to the timing /fuel if it was seeing some kinda knock.
It would be nice to see high MPH out of these cars,but I think I'll leave mine alone,use it as such was built and enjoy,street cruising,because as far as I'm concerned ,to me,drag racing at the track,I like feel decent 60' times 1.5,1.6's and these cars need an awfull lot to get to those.
Being a Buick GN owner,and racing it,even back in the day they never ran the same,and with very little effort they pick up tons of power and would run low 12's high 11's,but never this far off from eachother.
Posted By: PUNK
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/03/09 07:49 PM
Quote:
Here's an idea. Get hooked up with another guy with a similar car with PROVEN TIME SLIPS & SWAP CARS FOR A FEW PASSES!!!!
V10
In Dragrcr97s defense, his driving is definitely NOT the problem. I can tell you from personal experiance, EVERY time he has had a chance to run someone elses race car or truck, INCLUDING MINE!, he has went faster. Driver error is NOT the problem friends! That car was just a DOG! It sure was a pretty dog though. With all the avenues that he explored to remedy this situation and come up empty handed I think he did the right thing in the position that he was in. Believe me, he didnt simply drive it off the lot, drive to the track, make one crappy pass and say; "Its for sale". That car was awesome in almost every way and it was intended as a keeper, so there was alot of research locally that went into getting it fixed. Im glad to hear there may be another Challenger in the near future. Or maybe a GT500 Mustang! 
Posted By: BB70DUSTER
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 08:02 PM
Me and my $25 pepboys scanner would have put a Holley 3310 on it... that would have fixed it...lol
Posted By: EV2 AAR
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 08:26 PM
I geuss I have a ? related about this topic.When you have these "good ones" that miracuriously run that much harder than others of the same model,where is the substantial HP loss gone?Or how are these other cars having that much more HP coming out of them?
I mean,even if the engines tolerences are different,piston to wall,cam timing,alittle more compression,etc.,still does'nt add up to the quite noticable power to range 7-8 MPH?To me,it is just unexplainable to have that much more.And even though I am very happy and like my RT alot,and what it is ,it is for power,what a crappy quality control to have the variable that much different.
Posted By: EV2 AAR
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 08:30 PM
Not to mention that in the past the auto trannys usually lost more power going thru them vs a stick car,so the 6spd cars should be faster(MPH) anyway,not the other way around.
Posted By: tonycpe
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 09:22 PM
i remember having performance discusions just like this back in the sixties ,some were dogs and some were not.
Also running a car with out a air cleaner is never a good idea. Many seem to burn oil afterwards.
And your oil consumption was to high.
Posted By: BB70DUSTER
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/03/09 09:54 PM
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/03/09 10:31 PM
sometimes, its not the car but the driver
Posted By: Triple Threat
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/03/09 11:26 PM
Pulley, tune and some sticky tires. I've watched this car go high 10's at 125. Thats what I would be buying.
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 12:32 AM
"sometimes, it's not the car but the driver"
AARCUDA/Steve, why be such a jerk? What are you suggesting? Did you even read all of this thread? You seem somewhat intelligent, but I think you blew it making that comment. ESPECIALLY since it was suggested already.
Posted By: 440newport
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 02:03 AM
Quote:
"sometimes, it's not the car but the driver"
AARCUDA/Steve, why be such a jerk? What are you suggesting? Did you even read all of this thread? You seem somewhat intelligent, but I think you blew it making that comment. ESPECIALLY since it was suggested already.
I'm not sure you have the right to insult anyone's intelligence when you flushed 10K down the toilet for nothing.
You jumped the gun big time selling it and you know it.
Posted By: plasticfantastic
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/04/09 02:24 AM
Guess what, your "Mopar" is now made in Canada. Your HEMI has a mercedees transmission behind it and Toyota is now using the frame and rear coilover suspension from the Ram on the Tundra.....I wonder where the "FIAT" symbols will go on that 4 DOOR Charger you drive?
I have raced Mopar all my life and always will. I pull with an '08 Ram. I still say TODAYS Chrysler is CRAP. To "ME" Mopar is the old stuff... By the way, based on looks alone, a new Toyota 4Runner or a new Dodge Durango....yea, keep on bleeding.
i know where they are built, like the heavy duty rams are built in Mexico... BMW is made in South Carolina, Honda in Ohio, Toyota in Kentucky, California, Indiana AND Mississippi, its not as simple as buy american anymore, and that wasnt my point to begin with...
i like the looks of the 2009 durango, more then a tundra, you can spend your money anywhere you want on what you want... I'm not putting you down for what you choose to buy and drive...
but i personally, think its amusing that someone like you, would offer excuses up like, well the original charger was never a 4 door, so that is why i cant buy it... and then justify why you buy something other then a mopar but then say that you are a a mopar guy...
Dont like the Durango? look at the Aspen, Oh wait, the aspen was never an SUV, it was originally a 2 door F body, so you cant buy that, its not staying true to the name...
you should go get a Honda Pilot then???
I'll keep on bleeding, Mopar or no car, (except when ..... put your excuse here ..... )
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/04/09 02:35 AM
440NewPort,
"I'm not sure you have the right to insult anyone's intelligence when you flushed 10K down the toilet for nothing.
You jumped the gun big time selling it and you know it."
You don't know how right you are. Thats why I want to get another one. I am so lucky I had the money to waste.
Thanks, Ronald Silva.
Posted By: kingdust
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/04/09 03:35 AM
i can't believe this is still going on!
Posted By: Leojmcca
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 04:40 AM
Go to the Carmax in Torrance near LAX. They own the Dodge dealer that is located right behind the carmax dealership off the 405.
You can test drive the car and see if you can get it going off the line before buying it.
P.S. try an auto this time
Posted By: KillerBee
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 05:11 AM
Sorry to hear Fiat/Dodge/Daimler let you down, I think they are letting many other employees and consumers down in other ways right now.... not the same company as our beloved Mopar of the past and never will be again.
You should have went to the track and found a good running R/T or SRT and offered to trade them your turd SRT, I would have done a partial trade with you on a vintage street/strip R/T Challenger that you could have made a runner at the track out of
Posted By: 440FISH
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 06:16 AM
It is sad that some of you are questioning dragrcr97 ability to drive a car or his ability to work/diagnose one. If you have ever seen one of his cars in person and the workmanship that he put into them, you would be amazed. A few years ago I saw Ron’s Demon at Las Vagas and the workmanship in that car. Talked to him for a few mins. about the car and was very impressed. I only know him from that few minute talk and the posts on this board. I still talk about that Demon to this day. I’m sure his valiant is just as nice.
Ron, Get a 70-71 Challenger and drop the new hemi drive train in that car. I bet you could get it to run fast enough...
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/04/09 11:41 AM
Quote:
Guess what, your "Mopar" is now made in Canada. Your HEMI has a mercedees transmission behind it and Toyota is now using the frame and rear coilover suspension from the Ram on the Tundra.....I wonder where the "FIAT" symbols will go on that 4 DOOR Charger you drive?
I have raced Mopar all my life and always will. I pull with an '08 Ram. I still say TODAYS Chrysler is CRAP. To "ME" Mopar is the old stuff... By the way, based on looks alone, a new Toyota 4Runner or a new Dodge Durango....yea, keep on bleeding.
i know where they are built, like the heavy duty rams are built in Mexico... BMW is made in South Carolina, Honda in Ohio, Toyota in Kentucky, California, Indiana AND Mississippi, its not as simple as buy american anymore, and that wasnt my point to begin with...
i like the looks of the 2009 durango, more then a tundra, you can spend your money anywhere you want on what you want... I'm not putting you down for what you choose to buy and drive...
but i personally, think its amusing that someone like you, would offer excuses up like, well the original charger was never a 4 door, so that is why i cant buy it... and then justify why you buy something other then a mopar but then say that you are a a mopar guy...
Dont like the Durango? look at the Aspen, Oh wait, the aspen was never an SUV, it was originally a 2 door F body, so you cant buy that, its not staying true to the name...
you should go get a Honda Pilot then???
I'll keep on bleeding, Mopar or no car, (except when ..... put your excuse here ..... )
Whats so FUNNY about you is you have no idea who I am. You are the type that sits on the couch and gets all tingley inside when you see a chrysler commercial talking about the "lifetime warranty". Who is going to warranty them if they are not here??? They have made some of the worst looking vehicles in the last few years I have ever seen. If it wasnt for the RAM I think they would be gone. I have ran and have in my shop now more TRUE Mopar racecars and street cars than you can even name. Its people like you that make the "NEW" Chrysler think its OK to make all these UGLY cars. Case in point, that stupid looking Aspen you named. Tell you what Bleedy, is it OK with you if I go today and buy me an '09 Stratus?? What do you think about when I pop the hood and the top of the engine says "Mitschubischi"??? I am more TRUE Mopar than you will ever be......you have no IDEA. 
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 11:41 AM
Quote:
Sorry to hear Fiat/Dodge/Daimler let you down, I think they are letting many other employees and consumers down in other ways right now.... not the same company as our beloved Mopar of the past and never will be again.
You should have went to the track and found a good running R/T or SRT and offered to trade them your turd SRT, I would have done a partial trade with you on a vintage street/strip R/T Challenger that you could have made a runner at the track out of
WELL PUT....glad too see others understand my point.
SORRY for all the arguing. Back to your point on the Challenger.
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 11:55 AM
Quote:
"sometimes, it's not the car but the driver"
AARCUDA/Steve, why be such a jerk? What are you suggesting? Did you even read all of this thread? You seem somewhat intelligent, but I think you blew it making that comment. ESPECIALLY since it was suggested already.
im not being a jerk. im serious.. listen, my buddy built a 440 for a friends roadrunner. We went racing a few weeks ago at our local 1000' track. My freind ran the 1000' at 10.5 which really sucked for the motor build. It should have easily run mid to high 9's. He ran it three times and could never get the car to hook up and run and never made it better than 10.3.
Well my buddy who built the motor said he wanted to drive. this guy used to race seriously and had b1 motors, aluminum KB hemi motors in late model daytonas and could drive.
So we line up together cause i have a low 10 second car. and he proceeds to blow my doors off running a 9.8.
Thats why i said it. buddy #1 couldnt get out of the hole to save his life and certainly couldnt run in the 9's until buddy #2 showed him how. the car wanted something special and buddy #2 gave it what it needed to run hard.
btw, i didnt type all this out before cause i did it from my iphone and its a pita to type on. but had i been on my puter, i would have. didnt mean to sound like a jerk. its just the first thing I thought of when i read your post.
btw, for all i know, my car runs in the 9s too but i cant drive it there. who knows, no one else ever drove it but me
Posted By: Bill_T
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 03:36 PM
Quote:
It is sad that some of you are questioning dragrcr97 ability to drive a car or his ability to work/diagnose one. If you have ever seen one of his cars in person and the workmanship that he put into them, you would be amazed. A few years ago I saw Ron’s Demon at Las Vagas and the workmanship in that car. Talked to him for a few mins. about the car and was very impressed. I only know him from that few minute talk and the posts on this board. I still talk about that Demon to this day. I’m sure his valiant is just as nice.
Ron, Get a 70-71 Challenger and drop the new hemi drive train in that car. I bet you could get it to run fast enough...
x2 and then some. The Demon was just plain awesome. Looked like a 13.50 car but would carry the front tires four feet in the air through the 60 foot timers and et at 9.9x letting off early. At LVMS (altitude). Running a small block.
The personal attacks are just ignorant and chase good people off the board.
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 03:37 PM
Steve, I will admit, you hit a nerve. I would love to drive your car someday!
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 04:17 PM
Quote:
Steve, I will admit, you hit a nerve. I would love to drive your car someday!
and i admit i didnt read all the posts for the same reason for my initial short response- i used my iphone and thats not easy screen to read
Posted By: Mills
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 05:46 PM
To the topic at hand...there was something wrong with the car. A Challenger should be around the 106-108 mph mark showroom stock. As said, I could care less what the ET was. A "normal" one puts out more then teh 425 SAE HP they are rated for.
The programming in these cars is HORRIBLE. My SRT Charger, while a really fast car stock, was crappy in so many ways. As said, the torque managment in these cars is nuts. The ESP dash button does NOT turn it off, regardless what people say. The R/T does not have a 3 step button I believe, but even the SRT holding for the chime does NOT turn it off.
The Diablo Predator made my car fell like it had gained 50 HP / 50 lb ft...even thou is was mostly feel. Data logging proved the stock tune would pull timing to virtually NOTHING on a stand still punch...torque managment...with of without ESP dash button. Torque managment between shifts...crap.
You can turn the key (attempt to start the car again) while slowing moving the car which will turn the ESP AND BAS system off as the brakes WILL attempt to apply when they sense "excessive" torque applies to the wheels which could result in a loss of control. Still, disable the ENTIRE ESP system with the Diablo and you feel like you just bought a new car.
All this said, Chrysler really messed up in the programming. I'm not too sure of the # of people that bought an SRT because they thought it was the top of the line model and cared about an ESP system and all the other crap that goes into it. Give me a 6.4L SRT with a bare bones "roadrunner" type thinking and I'll be happy. You are no longer DC...think like the old Mopar!
I have a "few" mods in my car now, and it is a BLAST to drive. I could care less what it runs at the track as that was not the reason I bought the car. On the street, there is not much that will keep up...unless you start meeting some really serious iron. I'd say it's an easy low 12 @ ~118mph car in street trim....which when you figure a race weight of ~4500 lbs, is a bunch of HP at the wheels for a 370 ci motor. Show me a 4500# 383 powered car run those #'s....and then how streetable is it?
Posted By: ZIPPY
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 06:43 PM
The programming "sucks" because Chrysler doesn't want the car coming in on a rollback, owner complaining he broke the differential "driving normally" instead of sidestepping it at 7 grand...on slicks at the track.
But potential warranty claims really don't apply here since the OP's warranty was void the first time he raced it.... so he might as well have given it a "stock" tuneup at the same time. Race it once, presto...no more warranty!
Posted By: Devilbrad
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 06:50 PM
Quote:
The programming "sucks" because Chrysler doesn't want the car coming in on a rollback, owner complaining he broke the differential "driving normally" instead of sidestepping it at 7 grand...on slicks at the track.
But potential warranty claims really don't apply here since the OP's warranty was void the first time he raced it.... so he might as well have given it a "stock" tuneup at the same time. Race it once, presto...no more warranty!
Well, they have to prove you raced it and its still up to the dealer whether they let the manufacturer know it was abused or not. Working on Mazdas for a living, I see a lot of Speed 3's and 6's. They get beat on hard, lots of them modified. I just close my eyes and do everything under warranty, because I am cool like that. I also have some very very loyal customers because of it.
Posted By: Mills
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 07:22 PM
Quote:
The programming "sucks" because Chrysler doesn't want the car coming in on a rollback, owner complaining he broke the differential "driving normally" instead of sidestepping it at 7 grand...on slicks at the track.
But potential warranty claims really don't apply here since the OP's warranty was void the first time he raced it.... so he might as well have given it a "stock" tuneup at the same time. Race it once, presto...no more warranty!
They shouldn't build a SRT that can't stand up to the motor under normal operating conditions (and yes, bag driving it IS / should be normal for an SRT)...end of story. They want to limit things, then don't put an SRT badge on it. If someone thinks side stepping at clutch at 7k is normal, then he needs to give his head a shake.
All I'm saying is you would not believe the difference (on an auto anyway) with a before and after Diablo tune. Disable the torque managment completely with the Diablo, and you have the way the car should have left the factory...as an SRT...the reason wht people buy an SRT.
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 07:25 PM
Quote:
The programming "sucks" because Chrysler doesn't want the car coming in on a rollback, owner complaining he broke the differential "driving normally" instead of sidestepping it at 7 grand...on slicks at the track.
But potential warranty claims really don't apply here since the OP's warranty was void the first time he raced it.... so he might as well have given it a "stock" tuneup at the same time. Race it once, presto...no more warranty!
wow! is that true? Is that in the warranty? I would like to know the exact wording of the warranty. If anyone has it (only the part about racing is needed), could you post it?
Posted By: ZIPPY
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 07:50 PM
Quote:
All I'm saying is you would not believe the difference (on an auto anyway) with a before and after Diablo tune. Disable the torque managment completely with the Diablo, and you have the way the car should have left the factory...as an SRT...the reason wht people buy an SRT.
I would belive it because I've experienced it, and recommended a "stock" Diablo tune several posts ago.
The point I was trying to make is the torque management programming is probably done to reduce warranty costs, but I guess that point was totally lost somehow. At any rate it's easily defeated and the warranty just as easily voided so it's nothing to get too worked up about.
Hopefully nobody tied into Chrysler will see this thread
Posted By: Mills
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 09:24 PM
Chrysler turned into a bunch of Pufta's. Last time I checked, Ford and GM didn't care what you were doing with a GT500 or Z06 Vette...as they know EXACTLY what customers buy those cars and what they plan to do with them.
If they are going to void the warranty if they found out you raced it, even in 100% stock, they shouldn't advertise / sell the cars the way they do. I mean, go to a SRT experience event and what are they doing?....racing the cars. Oh, but Mr. John Q. Public...you buy one, you can't do this...we are simply trying to show you the potential of the cars.
Posted By: ZIPPY
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 09:56 PM
Sorry for my attempt to explain why things are the way they are
Please continue the complaining, at this point it's the only thing keeping this thread alive
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 09:59 PM
Ron, enjoyable post, and as always written excellently.
I admire your knowledge and honest input on this board...and like looking at your cars
Btw, off subject a little
Few years back i was running a Pontiac dealership. We got our first GTO off the truck and myself and one of my salesmen decided to flog it after it got done being prepped.
I drove it outside town, turned around, and put it to the matt. It was a complete pooch and i thought the service dept had yanked the motor out of it during prep
Anyhow, my sales guy says"hey dummy, do you have the traction control on"?
I did and it really woke up
Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/04/09 10:21 PM
Quote:
The programming "sucks" because Chrysler doesn't want the car coming in on a rollback, owner complaining he broke the differential "driving normally" instead of sidestepping it at 7 grand...on slicks at the track.
But potential warranty claims really don't apply here since the OP's warranty was void the first time he raced it.... so he might as well have given it a "stock" tuneup at the same time. Race it once, presto...no more warranty!
SRT= STREET RACE TECHNOLOGY.... Correct?
So.. If you advertise street and race, why would the warranty be voided? Chrysler has obviously toned these down to avoid warranty issues, but I can't see advertising a "Street Race" car and not expecting anyone to race them..
This is exactly why Chrysler and GM...DON'T GET IT" and Ford does..
Chris.. 
Posted By: gregsrt
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/04/09 10:42 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Just to clarify, the car was not burning that much oil. It was needing to add a second quart when I changed the oil just before I sold it. At about 5500 miles. So that is one quart in 2750 miles. By todays standards that seems like a lot, but may in fact be normal for this motor. And it may have gotten better as it broke in some more.
I will bet that every one of your Guy's race motors burn that much oil in that many miles (if you should ever drive that many miles with a race motor) and it is not causing detonation. Or basically I do not believe one quart in 2750 miles is enough to cause detonation in this motor. I think that question as to the oil level got some of us off track.
Should burn 0=ZERO that new. I have had 2 5.7 HEMI trucks and they used NO oil. They did both make a knocking sound at idle though.....
Even my 95 5.2 rattles a ton at the track unless I mix 93 w/ 104. All it has is the mopar computer.
It's a valve train tick(not detonation like the 5.2 magnums all get), all 5.7's have it. I swapped a 6.1 cam, springs and pushrods into my 03 Ram and the tick disappeared with the pushrods.
On a side note does everyone with an SRT8 know that you have to press and HOLD the trac control button for 10 seconds or so, it will beep and that means the trac control is completely disengaged
Posted By: SRT8Challenger
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/05/09 01:08 AM
I think it is dis-engaged to a point,
But, not completely....
Ed
Posted By: PUNK
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/05/09 01:17 AM
Quote:
It is sad that some of you are questioning dragrcr97 ability to drive a car or his ability to work/diagnose one. If you have ever seen one of his cars in person and the workmanship that he put into them, you would be amazed. A few years ago I saw Ron’s Demon at Las Vagas and the workmanship in that car.
I second that. 
Posted By: plasticfantastic
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/05/09 02:17 AM
[quote
Whats so FUNNY about you is you have no idea who I am. You are the type that sits on the couch and gets all tingley inside when you see a chrysler commercial talking about the "lifetime warranty". Who is going to warranty them if they are not here??? They have made some of the worst looking vehicles in the last few years I have ever seen. If it wasnt for the RAM I think they would be gone. I have ran and have in my shop now more TRUE Mopar racecars and street cars than you can even name. Its people like you that make the "NEW" Chrysler think its OK to make all these UGLY cars. Case in point, that stupid looking Aspen you named. Tell you what Bleedy, is it OK with you if I go today and buy me an '09 Stratus?? What do you think about when I pop the hood and the top of the engine says "Mitschubischi"??? I am more TRUE Mopar than you will ever be......you have no IDEA.
funny thing is, that I really dont give a crap who you are or what you have in your garage... you dont know me either, and you can type your assumptions on here, (btw, they dont offer lifetime warranties on the CTD or SRT line up, so i'm not all giddy inside over it, any other assumptions?)
But, youre the typical need a pat on the back for being someone "big" and "important"... the really funny thing is that I know exactly what you are without knowing you. go figure. Sure I probably would like what you have in your garage, and I would appreciate it, but does that make me think youre more important, or more into this "hobby" then I am? well if you want to think that, then go ahead, I'll let you be more important then me... youre welcome.
Like i said all along, buy what you want, its your money, I dont care if you buy a stratus, or crossfire, or whatever makes your big important ego feel good. I dont care if you dont like the new aspen, or durango or the last few years of cars, i just think its funny you call yourself a TRUE mopar guy... cant handle my opinion? ok, you need to get over it like how you need to get over the fact that the charger is a 4 door.
moving on, I'm done with you.
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/05/09 03:07 AM
Quote:
[quote
Whats so FUNNY about you is you have no idea who I am. You are the type that sits on the couch and gets all tingley inside when you see a chrysler commercial talking about the "lifetime warranty". Who is going to warranty them if they are not here??? They have made some of the worst looking vehicles in the last few years I have ever seen. If it wasnt for the RAM I think they would be gone. I have ran and have in my shop now more TRUE Mopar racecars and street cars than you can even name. Its people like you that make the "NEW" Chrysler think its OK to make all these UGLY cars. Case in point, that stupid looking Aspen you named. Tell you what Bleedy, is it OK with you if I go today and buy me an '09 Stratus?? What do you think about when I pop the hood and the top of the engine says "Mitschubischi"??? I am more TRUE Mopar than you will ever be......you have no IDEA.
funny thing is, that I really dont give a crap who you are or what you have in your garage... you dont know me either, and you can type your assumptions on here, (btw, they dont offer lifetime warranties on the CTD or SRT line up, so i'm not all giddy inside over it, any other assumptions?)
But, youre the typical need a pat on the back for being someone "big" and "important"... the really funny thing is that I know exactly what you are without knowing you. go figure. Sure I probably would like what you have in your garage, and I would appreciate it, but does that make me think youre more important, or more into this "hobby" then I am? well if you want to think that, then go ahead, I'll let you be more important then me... youre welcome.
Like i said all along, buy what you want, its your money, I dont care if you buy a stratus, or crossfire, or whatever makes your big important ego feel good. I dont care if you dont like the new aspen, or durango or the last few years of cars, i just think its funny you call yourself a TRUE mopar guy... cant handle my opinion? ok, you need to get over it like how you need to get over the fact that the charger is a 4 door.
moving on, I'm done with you.
I wont agrue with you like were in High School. You are obvisiously a "computer" car builder. We do the real thing here. MOPAR ONLY SHOP. You keep reading your 0-60 times in "Hotrod Magazine" and telling your buddies that four door car (CRAP) YOU bought is really a Charger.... 
Posted By: plasticfantastic
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/05/09 04:43 AM
[quote
I wont agrue with you like were in High School. You are obvisiously a "computer" car builder. We do the real thing here. MOPAR ONLY SHOP. You keep reading your 0-60 times in "Hotrod Magazine" and telling your buddies that four door car (CRAP) YOU bought is really a Charger....
yes it is obvious... ok.
MOPAR ONLY SHOP, but drive a Toyota... OK.
It's obvious that you can only make assumptions and say things to make yourself bigger, because you arent intelligent enough to just say something like...
thanks for letting me spend my money how i want, i'll let you spend your money how you want.
I may not like all the new stuff chrysler is putting out now, but you have every right to enjoy what you enjoy... i'll stick to my 70's and early stuff.
instead you do what you do, oh well, i have to go now and build my computer car and catch up on HotRod magazine...
maybe i can get your autograph sometime?
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/05/09 11:43 AM
Quote:
[quote
I wont agrue with you like were in High School. You are obvisiously a "computer" car builder. We do the real thing here. MOPAR ONLY SHOP. You keep reading your 0-60 times in "Hotrod Magazine" and telling your buddies that four door car (CRAP) YOU bought is really a Charger....
yes it is obvious... ok.
MOPAR ONLY SHOP, but drive a Toyota... OK.
It's obvious that you can only make assumptions and say things to make yourself bigger, because you arent intelligent enough to just say something like...
thanks for letting me spend my money how i want, i'll let you spend your money how you want.
I may not like all the new stuff chrysler is putting out now, but you have every right to enjoy what you enjoy... i'll stick to my 70's and early stuff.
instead you do what you do, oh well, i have to go now and build my computer car and catch up on HotRod magazine...
maybe i can get your autograph sometime?
Autograph, Sure anytime. You can find me at most all the SS/AH events. I'll even let you sit in the Barracuda while I sign your Charger window sticker for ya.
Posted By: speedfreak440
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/05/09 01:16 PM
Quoted from 440fish- "It is sad that some of you are questioning dragrcr97 ability to drive a car or his ability to work/diagnose one. If you have ever seen one of his cars in person and the workmanship that he put into them, you would be amazed. A few years ago I saw Ron’s Demon at Las Vagas and the workmanship in that car. Talked to him for a few mins. about the car and was very impressed. I only know him from that few minute talk and the posts on this board. I still talk about that Demon to this day. I’m sure his valiant is just as nice.
Ron, Get a 70-71 Challenger and drop the new hemi drive train in that car. I bet you could get it to run fast enough..."
Exactly how much fine craftsmanship was put into this Challenger? People on here have every right to question his driving skills when he comes on here whining about losing 10k on a LEMON. Yet he apparently never had it on a dyno or hooked up to a computer to figure out the power problem, It could have been something VERY small as was previously stated. Remember, he came on here with the problem, we are simply trying to respond.
Now on to the suspension, wheel-hop is a fact of life for most modern performance cars, He just bought a 4200# car with ind. rear suspension. They take a certain technique to get them off the line cleanly & that takes more than one trip to the dragstrip as a seasoned vet should already know. Just talk to all the 03 Cobra, Vette & soon enough camaro guys, wheelhop takes practice & sometimes a few parts to get it under control at the strip. Drag Radials & subframe connectors did it for my 700rwhp Cobra with IRS.
Posted By: plasticfantastic
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 06/05/09 02:33 PM
Quote:
Autograph, Sure anytime. You can find me at most all the SS/AH events. I'll even let you sit in the Barracuda while I sign your Charger window sticker for ya.
Find you in what section of the stands at most SS/AH events? (kidding)
Sit in that red barracuda with the ugly KOS hood? I'll pass, (not kidding).
Posted By: 68Fastback
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/05/09 07:54 PM
Quote:
Quote:
It is sad that some of you are questioning dragrcr97 ability to drive a car or his ability to work/diagnose one. If you have ever seen one of his cars in person and the workmanship that he put into them, you would be amazed. A few years ago I saw Ron’s Demon at Las Vagas and the workmanship in that car.
I second that.
I will third this and it is amazing how fast people forget you had one of the quickest Mopar small block street cars in the country, heck I seen you drive up unload small table, chairs, cooler from the trunk then rip off 9's without lifting the hood.
Posted By: Irun5snd8th
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/05/09 08:33 PM
You should probably think twice before bashing the computer controlled cars. Show me a "TRUE MOPAR" that ever went in the 12's bone stock at 4100 lbs. I have seen a 300C in person do just that and know there has been more than one Charger that has done the same task.
I think this is where this fella's dissapointment lies. The Challenger was advertised to be the bad boy on the block and the 300C that I witnessed outruns his Challenger by a full second???
Posted By: blairboy3
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/05/09 08:50 PM
Quote:
I have a "few" mods in my car now, and it is a BLAST to drive. I could care less what it runs at the track as that was not the reason I bought the car. On the street, there is not much that will keep up...unless you start meeting some really serious iron. I'd say it's an easy low 12 @ ~118mph car in street trim....which when you figure a race weight of ~4500 lbs, is a bunch of HP at the wheels for a 370 ci motor. Show me a 4500# 383 powered car run those #'s....and then how streetable is it?
My 68 Fury 4-Door runs in the 12's.. would have been low 12's if I didn't run out of nitrous before I upped the jets. Very streetable, nitrous is a wonderful thing!
Posted By: gregsrt
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/06/09 01:46 AM
Here's a question. How many miles are were on the car? If I recall from my days as a service adviser, these cars were slower until they reached a preset mileage break in point. No???
Posted By: 67HEMI
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/06/09 01:44 PM
http://4lo.com/calc/dynocalc.htm cc According to the above HP calculator at 101 mph it was making 350 hp. At 108 mph it would make 428 hp. I used the weight of 4350 pounds.
To all the Ford fans, I worked at a Ford dealer for 15 years and they had the same problem with some cars and diesels having more power off of the showroom floors than others. They would also void your warranty if abuse caused two failures in a row,i.e. mustang gt transmissions. Oil consumption rate of less than a quart per 1,000 miles was considered normal.
You might look into buying a good used Viper instead of another new car. I bought an '06 with 14,000 miles on it, it has independent rear and does have wheel hop but it runs a tad faster than 108 mph in the quarter
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/07/09 03:40 AM
devilbrad, be sure and give us that update on how your car ran, if you made it to the track tonight. Maybe I can buy it from you? LOL. I hope you got a good one!!!
Good luck, Ron.
Posted By: RapidusMaximus
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/07/09 04:54 AM
Posted By: 72demon416
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/07/09 05:17 AM
Well I can't blame you for getting rid of your chally. I would have done the same. It was obviously down on quite a bit of power and I think it would be a long and frustrating battle to find where the problem lies. Regardless of what anybody may say I don't think there is a dealer around who would spend more than 5 minutes hearing you out before dismissing your plight & when it comes to warranty and dealing with/talking performance- they are polar opposites. Throwing money at the car to correct something that should never have been a problem is just pissing into the wind as well.
You bought the car expecting it to perform and it fell significantly short= unacceptable- End of story.
Hopefully the next one's on par.
Posted By: mike s
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/07/09 05:23 AM
Quote:
Quote:
All I'm saying is you would not believe the difference (on an auto anyway) with a before and after Diablo tune. Disable the torque managment completely with the Diablo, and you have the way the car should have left the factory...as an SRT...the reason wht people buy an SRT.
I would belive it because I've experienced it, and recommended a "stock" Diablo tune several posts ago.
The point I was trying to make is the torque management programming is probably done to reduce warranty costs, but I guess that point was totally lost somehow. At any rate it's easily defeated and the warranty just as easily voided so it's nothing to get too worked up about.
Hopefully nobody tied into Chrysler will see this thread
Hey Zippy I see it..lol
The problem is certainly in the torque management system.The engines make the numbers every day.
Posted By: torkrules
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 06/07/09 12:34 PM
Quote:
Some of you may know I bought a new 09 SRT8 Every Option 6 Speed Challenger. I saved my money from the very day I saw the first concept at MATS several years ago and then I paid cash for that car. Anyhow, that car was BITCHEN. It ruled the freeway and I loved the Navigation and the sunroof and I loved the sound going through the gears etc...
BUT: It had extremely bad wheel hop and it also TOTALLY let me down at the track. Basically it was a dog. I have talked to a couple people that are "in the know" and they told me those cars are "all over the place". Performance wise. Needless to say I could not get a good start because of the wheel hop issue, but regardless, it only would run 101 MPH at Fontana. And, that was with the air filter out. At Irwindale it picked up 2 MPH in the 1/8th removing the filter. So I suspect at Fontana, totally stock with the filter in it might have only run 99MPH?? SHEESH! Sure it probably would pick up a couple MPH if I could get a better launch, but it is NEVER going to be 108MPH where it should be or even close. Me and Sloan talked about it in depth and he even asked the Guys over at Westech for me and no one could offer a solution. You can't just take it to the dealer and say "it only ran 101 in the quarter with the air filter removed. Something's wrong".
Needless to say, I SOLD the car after 4 months and 5700 miles of driving it every day. Lost $9500. I could not deal with it, so it had to go.......
Here is the BIGGEST [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] I have. I want to get another one. But I have no way of figuring out how to make sure I get a good one. Buy a used one that you know a Guy had been racing it? Do you think a dealer would guarantee the car's performance?
I bought on of the first Dakota 5.9 R/Ts in 98. I was seeing all kinds of TV articles and magazine articles showing them burning off the tires, etc.
I could barely get mine to chirp the tires. I took it to the track and it ran 16.2 in the quarter. Mine was an extended cab. There was another regular cab version and he was running 15.3. I didn't think they should be that much different.
I took it back and told them it had "driveability" issues so they re-flashed the computer. It seemed to run a bit stronger after that. I also ditched the air box, put in colder plugs and cooler stat. That got it down to 15.5. I think this difference thing between cars is real, not sure why though. I remember Ford having this problem with the Mustangs not making the advertised horsepower.
Posted By: MattW
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/07/09 10:59 AM
Quote:
Some of you may know I bought a new 09 SRT8 Every Option 6 Speed Challenger. I saved my money from the very day I saw the first concept at MATS several years ago and then I paid cash for that car. Anyhow, that car was BITCHEN. It ruled the freeway and I loved the Navigation and the sunroof and I loved the sound going through the gears etc...
BUT: It had extremely bad wheel hop and it also TOTALLY let me down at the track. Basically it was a dog. I have talked to a couple people that are "in the know" and they told me those cars are "all over the place". Performance wise. Needless to say I could not get a good start because of the wheel hop issue, but regardless, it only would run 101 MPH at Fontana. And, that was with the air filter out. At Irwindale it picked up 2 MPH in the 1/8th removing the filter. So I suspect at Fontana, totally stock with the filter in it might have only run 99MPH?? SHEESH! Sure it probably would pick up a couple MPH if I could get a better launch, but it is NEVER going to be 108MPH where it should be or even close. Me and Sloan talked about it in depth and he even asked the Guys over at Westech for me and no one could offer a solution. You can't just take it to the dealer and say "it only ran 101 in the quarter with the air filter removed. Something's wrong".
Needless to say, I SOLD the car after 4 months and 5700 miles of driving it every day. Lost $9500. I could not deal with it, so it had to go.......
Here is the BIGGEST [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] I have. I want to get another one. But I have no way of figuring out how to make sure I get a good one. Buy a used one that you know a Guy had been racing it? Do you think a dealer would guarantee the car's performance?
Hey Ron Found this on another site SRT Engineer response. Hope this helps. Matt
Quote: Originally Posted by Bonez
Thanks for being here for us!
I have heard of several '09 Challenger SRT's using excessive amounts of oil early on after taking delivery.(less than 3000 miles) Mine, for example, used about 1 1/2 quarts for the first 1100 miles. Is this something that will correct itself with a few more miles on the clock? And, also several owners have expressed concern about a blue puff of smoke from the exhaust upon startup of an already warmed up engine. Is this a problem, could you explain both answers please?
Thank you again!
New engines take some time for the piston rings (sometimes seals as well) to break in. As ring tensions have reduced and bore finishes have improved (read smoother) the rings will take longer to seal to the mating surface. In some rare cases, if an engine is run very hard right out of the chute you will get some glazing between the bores and rings which will cause an even longer (or potentially never) break in period. Normal conditions will break in and seal up well within several thousand miles. Make a few hard runs with the car after break in will ususally accelerate the sealing. Some light smoke from the exhaust on start ups (usually cold or warm after sitting for a time) is not an issue. If the smoke is heavy or continuous during driving there may be a mechanical problem, take it to the dealer.
KC
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/07/09 12:54 PM
Thanks Matt.
Did you notice that devilbrad never posted his times like he promised.
Probaby did not run worth a darn, like mine. I hope I am wrong
Posted By: MattW
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/07/09 01:02 PM
Yes, I am hoping that it is just the rings seating as stated. On another note I hope you keep us informed of your new mill. I personally will be checking your post. Always informative.
Matt
P.S. Do you ever sleep? LOL Its what? 5:00 am there or something like that.
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/07/09 01:18 PM
I work 2 Graveyard Shifts each week.
I (or Ryan) will do a post on My new motor once I get all the major parts here. I kind of wanted to post some pics along with all the info. All the specs are finalized except the rods (source and material). I did tell Ryan "lets have some fun with this". And, I think we both are. He is free to say what he wants too.
I will definately be going to a bigger tire with the new Motor. Probably 30" tall and 11" tread (10X28 now). The car is set up for a bigger tire and will need to be geared taller.
Posted By: Duster426
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/07/09 02:41 PM
Less Ego, more Patience. Most cars I have had I had to go thru and massage (usually small stuff) before I could get the results I was after. Driving techniques vary depending on the car. GOOD LUCK.
Posted By: patrick
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/07/09 03:15 PM
Quote:
I (or Ryan) will do a post on My new motor once I get all the major parts here. I kind of wanted to post some pics along with all the info. All the specs are finalized except the rods (source and material). I did tell Ryan "lets have some fun with this". And, I think we both are. He is free to say what he wants too.
either of you guys consider the Howards "ultimate duty" forged billet rods? forged and machined in the USA,
weight seems pretty decent, cost pretty reasonable, too. would be interesting to get some 3rd party feedback on these...
http://www.competitionproducts.com/products.asp?dept=1793
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Depar...V8/?Ns=Rank|Asc
Posted By: MattW
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/07/09 03:32 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I (or Ryan) will do a post on My new motor once I get all the major parts here. I kind of wanted to post some pics along with all the info. All the specs are finalized except the rods (source and material). I did tell Ryan "lets have some fun with this". And, I think we both are. He is free to say what he wants too.
either of you guys consider the Howards "ultimate duty" forged billet rods? forged and machined in the USA,
weight seems pretty decent, cost pretty reasonable, too. would be interesting to get some 3rd party feedback on these...
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/07/09 11:32 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I (or Ryan) will do a post on My new motor once I get all the major parts here. I kind of wanted to post some pics along with all the info. All the specs are finalized except the rods (source and material). I did tell Ryan "lets have some fun with this". And, I think we both are. He is free to say what he wants too.
either of you guys consider the Howards "ultimate duty" forged billet rods? forged and machined in the USA,
weight seems pretty decent, cost pretty reasonable, too. would be interesting to get some 3rd party feedback on these...
http://www.competitionproducts.com/products.asp?dept=1793
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Depar...V8/?Ns=Rank|Asc
Those are nice Rods. I have always liked the looks of them. But the 6.300 long rod is 670 grams. I am afraid we could not balance the motor I am building with that rod. So here are some things to think about.
I am using a SB chevy Small Journal (2.0) Rod to save weight. The rod is 6.300 long. Also we are right at the limit on what stroke and rod length that will work. We actually cannot even use a shorter rod because at BDC the piston will be pulled out the bottom of the cylinder and also the possibility of it hitting the Crankshaft counterweights.
We also literally had to go to a SMALLER wrist pin (.866 diameter) just to get the necessary long rod to fit without placing the wristpin all the way up "through" the oil ring on the piston.
So it's pretty much a high end custom Rod for this build. It will be a full on custom steel (300M) tapered H beam Lentz or Carrilo NASCAR type lightweight rod with 3/8" CARR bolts or a Titanuim Rod.
Actually, the rods are the only part we have not got a solid order on yet. Because Titanuim is our first choice. If we get what we want that rod at that size will be around 420 grams (I think).
If we have to go with a steel Rod I am thinking they will weigh around 525 grams.
I also think Ryan is going out of his way to help me and do this Motor the way that I want. He has been very gracious and he is hand selecting the R-Block to be able to get the bore we want. I probably should not say that because I am sure he is not always in a position to do that. We are very lucky that the R-3 Blocks have good availability right now.
I think the only way to build a bigger engine than what we are doing would be to sleeve the block with extra long sleeves that stick out on the bottom of the cylinder. I have seen that done in other engine makes. Of course at that point you would "have to" have the lightweight parts because you would have to cut the crank counterwights down smaller and the crank would not balance. I am using lightweight parts to get rid of static weight and because I LOVE a quick revving motor. My Demon motor was not quite this extreme but to sit in the driver seat and rev that motor was a lot of fun.
I saved my money for a while to be able to do this and I do not want to cut any corners. I told Ryan that I do not have to have this motor. So if I ran out of money it will just get put on hold until I get more. It can just stop and sit until I can afford to move forward. So far I think I will have enough. But I have not seen the final bill 
Posted By: MattW
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 08/08/09 12:16 AM
So are you going with the Callies 4.25 crank with the full Nascar lighting program? any offset stoking
Matt
Posted By: hemicop
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/08/09 12:28 AM
Don't feel bad--- I ordered one of the S/S cars the day Mopar started accepting orders for ANY Challenger. Even sold my '68 HemiDart to fund the purchase. When I
found out I had to go through the application process (instead of the dealer calling me & telling me this) I went to THREE dealerships before I culd even get the order accepted. When the order was taken I called Mopar Performance and was told: " If you ordered one, you'll get one". I then waited patiently for "The Call", never received it, called & left messages at the dealer and NEVER heard another thing either from the dealer OR Mopar Performance.
Now I understand I'm no "big name" racer & quite honestly the purchase would've been a big bite out of the household budget, but I was willing, went through the appropriate steps & not even a call from ANYONE related to the car or purchase. Needless to say I'm less than pleased with MaMopar as a business, but I still love their stuff
Posted By: Bill_T
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/08/09 02:32 AM
I realize the original topic of this thread has kind of run its course, but still, I found this discussion and noticed some startling similarities....
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28448
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/08/09 04:20 AM
Good Lord! I was getting uptight just reading that Camaro thread. Bottom line, I did not trust the dealer to help me. Every time I go over there they try to get out of working on my vehicle for whatever reason or blame the defect on me Etc Etc.
I should have raced that Guy with my challenger! At least I could have beat HIM! LOL.
Matt, I considered using that calles crank. But the most they can go on that forging is 4.250 , if my budget was a little tighter I would have gone that way. But I decided to stretch and go with a Bryant Billet Crank.
It's funny the crank is being made 25 miles from me and then will be shipped back east to Ryan. He gets to see it and play with it before me
Maybe I will go visit it before they ship it! LOL. NOT!
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/08/09 04:34 AM
I bought a new WS6 T/A in '01. It is still considered the most badass one in town back then. That is for a stock longblock, stock tire car. That thing was sweet all around. However, you wouldn't have thought that when I first got it.
I tinkered with pretty much EVERYTHING you could on those cars w/o opening up the driveline. I'm not gona waste anybody's time with small details but I will say there is a lot of things to try on a late model car.
The most glaring was the MAF. Changing to whatever was the hot deal back then was worth THREE and a half tenths. You read that right, .35 in one simply bolt on. I did back to back to back tests at the track and it was legit. There were other things I did that were worth like a tenth.
You have lots of places on a car that tolerances can be off a tick and it make noticable difference in the output.
I mean, you are talking like it was burning oil. The LS1 had a bad design PCV system that let oil spray right into the intake stream. Really damn stupid and I had to rerig the whole deal to get the timing retard out of it. So I'm sure the new Dodge stuff has similar programming that may have been holding your car back.
Maybe some small changes in the rear suspension could have cured the wheel hop.
I still don't get why you ditched a car that you claim to have been perfectly happy with when using it as you intended. You had a race car and were THAT concerned that your loaded, bloated daily driver ran slow? How do you know what that air cleaner removal was worth? If anything, you threw the PCM a curve by running it w/o it all the sudden.
Did you try different tire pressures? Launches? Etc? I out close to 200 passes on my TA in ONE summer. I spent lots of time at TNTs where all I did was test the air pressure and other small changes. I learned a ton about my car by doing that, how to launch, how not to, and as a result I finished in the money at the track something like 8 straight weeks before a new job kept me away from the track.
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/08/09 05:01 AM
I stated in the original post at the beginning of this thread that removing the air filter was worth +2 MPH in the 1/8th. I tried it because OTHERS had posted with similar results. So, yes I tried it with and without and I could care less about how the car launched. I was going by MPH and nothing else. The launch would not bias the MPH much unless you did something totally outlandish. The launch WILL affect the ET though and you might have noticed I NEVER posted an ET.
Of course the wheelhop issue was an issue in other ways not related to the track performance. I HATED the fact that I could not lay down a killer burnout whevever I wanted. Even though I had enough power and a BITCHEN car that should do it. Oh, it would do them. About 1/3 of the time. But the rest of the time you looked like a Donkey.
I can't believe I am here explaining this and defending this all over again. I was just thinking a few minutes before seeing this latest post how I do NOT miss that car much if at all. And the MAIN reason is because I lost the "hots" for it.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/08/09 05:42 AM
Anyhow, that car was BITCHEN. It ruled the freeway and I loved the Navigation and the sunroof and I loved the sound going through the gears etc...
Posted By: 68Fastback
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/08/09 06:42 AM
Quote:
. I was just thinking a few minutes before seeing this latest post how I do NOT miss that car much if at all. And the MAIN reason is because I lost the "hots" for it.
Ron do you miss the Demon and you should start a post once Ryan gets the parts going, miss his posts on heads and pictures. so between the engineer and engine builder we could learn some stuff.
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/08/09 02:57 PM
Yes I miss the Demon sometimes. But the Valiant is a better car in many ways. And I guess I do miss the Challenger a little (how could not?) but I am GLAD I sold it and I have no regrets. I know I might sound wishy washy about the challenger. But I did say I would like to get another one someday and I might if I could afford it at time. But I am afraid to get another dog. AND, I seriously considered getting a Camaro (OMG!), but after reading that thread I am not so sure. I have ALLWAYS liked late modle performance. I had an 01 Camaro SS automatic and it ran 13.44 @ 104+ completely showroom stock at Pomona. THAT car ran what is should. But I ended up selling it and investing the money.
Iggy (the guy I sold the Demon to) keeps in touch with me. The engine finally barfed a Lifter since he did not keep an eye on the valvetrain. So DAVE DUDEK was rebuilding/fixing the engine last time I heard. I talked to Dave a couple times because he had some questions.
I will 100% do an engine thread on my 501 if Ryan does not do it. I will take lots of pics and so on. Please be patient because there is going to be a long wait for some of the parts. I did push him to order the crank right away because they usually take 12+ weeks. It "is ordered" and they said they are not too busy so they gave us a time of 8-9 weeks. But then it is a WEEK UPS Ground to get to Ryan and before the first possible pics could be posted.
Thanks, Ron.
Posted By: DaveDudek
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/09/09 08:14 PM
Quote:
Yes I miss the Demon sometimes. But the Valiant is a better car in many ways. And I guess I do miss the Challenger a little (how could not?) but I am GLAD I sold it and I have no regrets. I know I might sound wishy washy about the challenger. But I did say I would like to get another one someday and I might if I could afford it at time. But I am afraid to get another dog. AND, I seriously considered getting a Camaro (OMG!), but after reading that thread I am not so sure. I have ALLWAYS liked late modle performance. I had an 01 Camaro SS automatic and it ran 13.44 @ 104+ completely showroom stock at Pomona. THAT car ran what is should. But I ended up selling it and investing the money.
Iggy (the guy I sold the Demon to) keeps in touch with me. The engine finally barfed a Lifter since he did not keep an eye on the valvetrain. So DAVE DUDEK was rebuilding/fixing the engine last time I heard. I talked to Dave a couple times because he had some questions.
I will 100% do an engine thread on my 501 if Ryan does not do it. I will take lots of pics and so on. Please be patient because there is going to be a long wait for some of the parts. I did push him to order the crank right away because they usually take 12+ weeks. It "is ordered" and they said they are not too busy so they gave us a time of 8-9 weeks. But then it is a WEEK UPS Ground to get to Ryan and before the first possible pics could be posted.
Thanks, Ron.
Hey Ron, Iggy just picked her up at the Nats this weekend.
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/09/09 08:47 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Yes I miss the Demon sometimes. But the Valiant is a better car in many ways. And I guess I do miss the Challenger a little (how could not?) but I am GLAD I sold it and I have no regrets. I know I might sound wishy washy about the challenger. But I did say I would like to get another one someday and I might if I could afford it at time. But I am afraid to get another dog. AND, I seriously considered getting a Camaro (OMG!), but after reading that thread I am not so sure. I have ALLWAYS liked late modle performance. I had an 01 Camaro SS automatic and it ran 13.44 @ 104+ completely showroom stock at Pomona. THAT car ran what is should. But I ended up selling it and investing the money.
Iggy (the guy I sold the Demon to) keeps in touch with me. The engine finally barfed a Lifter since he did not keep an eye on the valvetrain. So DAVE DUDEK was rebuilding/fixing the engine last time I heard. I talked to Dave a couple times because he had some questions.
I will 100% do an engine thread on my 501 if Ryan does not do it. I will take lots of pics and so on. Please be patient because there is going to be a long wait for some of the parts. I did push him to order the crank right away because they usually take 12+ weeks. It "is ordered" and they said they are not too busy so they gave us a time of 8-9 weeks. But then it is a WEEK UPS Ground to get to Ryan and before the first possible pics could be posted.
Thanks, Ron.
Hey Ron, Iggy just picked her up at the Nats this weekend.
DANG Dave, that engine looks AWESOME!! Those pics brought back some serious memories. That thing took me 9 months to build. It looks exactly the same except I think the paint on the block is a lot better 
I bet you had fun working on it and I hope it was up to your standards. I also bet IGGY is happy to have it back so he can put it back in the Demon.
Thanks so much. I will save these pics for sure.
Ron.
Posted By: cheapstreetdustr
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 08/09/09 10:35 PM
for you guys with modern Hemi's find a dealer mechanic that knows what he is doing ....on this. and you should see an improovement in et/mph.
have him check and calibrate the TPS throttle position sensor... they are all over the place.
the timing curve is based off this.
and also check the range on the MAS..
oil consumption will cause detonation which will cause the ecu to dump ignition timing..
all three of these will kill 4 mph..
cheapst.
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 09/28/09 02:04 AM
OMG!!! Look what happened............
Posted By: Bigcube
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 09/28/09 02:08 AM
You had a nightmare, woke up and your chally came back as a camaro
Posted By: 70VcodeCoronetRT
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 09/28/09 02:41 AM
I have to say the challenger looks sooooo much better. But at least you have some power with the camaro. Congrats!!!!!
Posted By: slantzilla
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 09/28/09 03:03 AM
Saw an automatic SS Camaro out at RT66 yesterday. Conditions were pretty good, and he was running 13:80's.
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 09/28/09 03:32 AM
Quote:
I have to say the challenger looks sooooo much better. But at least you have some power with the camaro. Congrats!!!!!
I agree, the camaro is not a bad looking car but the Challenger I had was a "BAD" LOOKING car. Still is. I strongly considered a Challenger Classic this time but the only thing it would have done better than this car is look better. The challenger classic in B5 Blue or Orange with black stripes is about one of the best looking cars there is, as far as I am concerned.
Posted By: furious
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 09/28/09 07:40 PM
Quote:
OMG!!! Look what happened............
My condolences, sorry the Challenger let you down, things just keep getting worse for you.
(I read every post in this thread)
Oh by the way, it is really easy to reprogram the gas pedal. Turn they key on, press the pedal down three times slowly, turn the key off. Done.
It makes a HUGE difference.
My R/T ran 13.90s with a full tank of gas, the cooler, golf clubs and lawn furniture in the trunk. (once I figured out how not to blow the tires off.)
Posted By: 71Chip
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 09/28/09 08:44 PM
Welcome to world of the LS3!
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry - 09/28/09 08:50 PM
Quote:
Quote:
OMG!!! Look what happened............
My condolences, sorry the Challenger let you down, things just keep getting worse for you.
(I read every post in this thread)
Oh by the way, it is really easy to reprogram the gas pedal. Turn they key on, press the pedal down three times slowly, turn the key off. Done.
It makes a HUGE difference.
My R/T ran 13.90s with a full tank of gas, the cooler, golf clubs and lawn furniture in the trunk. (once I figured out how not to blow the tires off.)
That sounds mysteriously like the oil change monitor reset procedure. KOEO, depress the pedal 3 times, and then turn the key off. I read that in the owners manual.
Who said the throttle was not going open all the way?? It was never checked. Make all the "ass"umtions you want. It could have been anything. Or maybe there was NOTHING wrong with it. Maybe that was all it was ever going to run. That car did not run for whatever reason and it could not even do a burnout without violent, breaking shizit type WHEELHOP. What diehard hot rodder/racer in their right mind would want that car and not be able to do a burnout?? That is what that car was all about to me.
I will say this again. So I don't get as much of the sarcasm. That was a great car in many respects. It was just not for me as I lost the "HOTS" for it. Someone else has it now and is enjoying it. Is there something wrong with that?? CHALLENGERS are still one of the best muscle cars available right now and DEFINATELY the best looking.
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 09/28/09 09:03 PM
Quote:
Welcome to world of the LS3!
I had a 2001 LS1 SS Camaro automatic. It ran 13.44 @ 104.56mph showroom stock with 700 miles on it at Pomona.
Since I was a dumbazz I ended up buying another manual. Their was too big a power diff between the auto and the manual so I had to do it. Plus they are more fun. I will not be able to get this one to run either. Since we all know I can't shift or get the car out of the hole worth a darn. I am seriously considering NEVER running it at the track. LOL.
Posted By: Triple Threat
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 09/28/09 09:59 PM
Congrats Ron! I raced a guy in a 6 speed SS car twice at the track, once in time runs, once in first round. This was the first new Camaro I had ever seen, supposedly the first SS in Washington State. Admittedly the guy told me before hand he is a very poor driver and only had 250 miles on the car.
Both Passes were low 14's at 106-107 mph on a 85 degree summer day. MPH shows good potential as my car was only running 105 mph, but 12.50's.
Posted By: d330
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 09/29/09 11:36 AM
Quote:
Saw an automatic SS Camaro out at RT66 yesterday. Conditions were pretty good, and he was running 13:80's.
Would that be the 426 h.p motor?
the wife's r/t auto ran 13.76 this last weekend in st.louie...
Posted By: Magnum
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 09/29/09 02:04 PM
I can't believe this topic has went 9 pages, so far. Replies like, it's a big car, it's heavy, it's may have only been a computer problem, you may not know how to drive. All crap. Coming from guys with fast cars too. Would they be happy if their [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] was missing power?
I would have lost interest in it too. I'd put up with peeling paint or rusted doors before I'd put up with 7 mile per hour missing.
Hopefully someone at Dodge gets wind of this thread because as a customer I would not be happy with missing performance either. Whether is be my lawnmower, grinder, minivan or $40,000 SRT8.
What would really put a nice ending to this long winded thread would be some "ON PAR" numbers from your new car!
Posted By: cupcake
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 09/30/09 12:51 AM
that LS3 is one ugly pile of junk
Posted By: PUNK
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 09/30/09 05:11 AM
My brother is going to buy a Challenger Classic and so is another friend of mine. The Challengers are killer looking and so are the Camaros. I went with Ron to pick up that bad boy Camaro. Its NICE!! Im jealous! If I was in the position to purchase one of the two, it would be a very very very hard decision for me. I was a little dissapointed in Rons Challengers performance and I to would have been ticked off about its lack of performance. Im glad Ron has put himself in a position to do what he did and cut his losses instead of putting up with a bad thing for many years. There were a few Camaros at the dealer that Ron picked his up at and I got to say ,there was a silver one with black stripes that would tempt me to the dark side. But I dont know; the Black Challenger Classic with 6 speed and Trak Pak might persuade me to stick with the Mopar. Black, with matte black R/T stripes, and then the over the counter T/A hood also matte black would be KILLER!!! The Challenger needs to be lowered like an inch also.
Posted By: slantzilla
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 09/30/09 10:09 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Saw an automatic SS Camaro out at RT66 yesterday. Conditions were pretty good, and he was running 13:80's.
Would that be the 426 h.p motor?
I do not know. I would hope not.
Posted By: patrick
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 09/30/09 12:30 PM
auto's are ~400 HP, manuals are 426...
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So - 09/30/09 04:05 PM
Quote:
that LS3 is one ugly pile of junk
Don't blame me! SLOAN took that picture.
BTW, that is me playing with the "lil TURBO" in the background. Awesome kid.
