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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: R_Blaha]
#335813
06/02/09 02:12 PM
06/02/09 02:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 876
Arizona
PolyDart
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 876
Arizona
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http://www.autoblog.com/2004/06/22/hyundai-settles-overstated-horsepower-lawsuit/Hyundai Motor America will be parting with $30 million in order to make up for the horsepower numbers it fudged over the past decade. Up to 858,000 Hyundai owners can get in on the class-action suit, which has been resolved with Hyundai offering debit cards worth $50 to $225 in regular currency or cards worth slightly more when used at Hyundai dealers. Power figures were off by almost 20-hp on a few V6 models, but many Hyundai owners saw a much smaller difference, for instance a so-called 140-hp Elantra packed a mere 136. 120,000 owners have already stepped forward and the final tally will most likely be close to 200,000, of which one or two may have actually taken horsepower into consideration before purchasing their Hyundai. ========== http://consumeraffairs.com/news03/mazda_buyback.htmlSeptember 5, 2003 Mazda is offering to buy back all of the 2004-model RX-8 sports cars sold in the United States because the car's rotary engine produces 4.8 percent less horsepower than expected. Customers who choose to keep their cars will get free maintenance for four years and $500 in parts and accessories, the company said. Letters went out to registered owners in late August. Mazda initially said the manual-transmission RX-8 would produce 247 horsepower, the automatic version 207. But after making modifications to meet U.S. emission rules, the correct figures were 238 and 197, Mazda said. ============ Those are just a couple examples. The same happened with Ford a few years ago. Just can't remember the details or find a link.
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: PolyDart]
#335814
06/02/09 02:25 PM
06/02/09 02:25 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: Devilbrad]
#335816
06/02/09 02:37 PM
06/02/09 02:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
topfueldart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
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Sorry to hear about your woes... I agree 100 percent, that car should easily go 108+, probably more like 111 on drag radials... I just dont see how the cars can have such a disparity unless its just in the tune or the adaptive learning. I wonder how much adding just a chip would've been worth MPH wise...
Unfortunately I think your like most of us hot rodders in the feeling that the overall performance is more important than the vehicle. Its sad these cars are such a let down. Dollar for dollar, I dont think I could convince myself to buy a Challenger.
My best friends 04 Cobra has 3 mods. Chip, Pulley, and Drag Radials. Its been 11.78 @ 117.
11.48 @ 120 with a 1.80 60' 318, stock 1.88 heads, stock 904, Pump Gas, 13 lbs of boost.
9.94 @ 134, 318 on pump gas, 14 lbs w/ Eddies, transbrake 727, 3600 lbs, 3.54 gear and 28's.
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: PolyDart]
#335817
06/02/09 02:41 PM
06/02/09 02:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,880
USA
Ron Silva
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,880
USA
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I thought about scanning it, but I do not have a scanner. I don't think your $25 Pep Boys scanners will work. Plus the car ran perfect in all situations. It was just not a brutal as it should be. I understand how most everything works and the fact that something could be wrong and not throw a code. But, since it did not throw any codes and it had no drivability problems whatsoever, I was thinking it would be something that was not so easy to see. Like I said, I had Sloan ask the Guys at Westech what they thought about dynoing it and checking out the computer and they flat out deffered. They said there was not much they could do with the Chrysler software. I was willing to pay them to drive it, dyno it and scope it to see if something could be done.
I also had no hope that any dealer would be sympathetic to my plight. In fact, I was worried about them going after my warranty like was already mentioned. All these dealers nowadays seem to do everything they can to avoid doing anything for you under warranty. Or you spend all day there and they give it back and say, "no problem found". Which really means they didn't get to it and they just wasted the whole day you took off of work.
I wasn't going to keep the car hoping there would be a class action lawsuit. Which is not likely. So now it is 2 years old or more and worth-less and where am I? I dumped it while it was still new and desireable to a new Owner. "sometimes you just have to cut your losses".
SRT DEMON ONE SEAT
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: topfueldart]
#335818
06/02/09 02:44 PM
06/02/09 02:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
dusturbd340W5
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
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but it gets back to are you buying a race car or a cool azz street car to take a 9500 hit on a new car is nuts if you ask me I would rather cruise it around and tinker with it as funds permite and as far as getting it handed to you by a Rustang 95% of them that people own that would want to street race you have mods done to them so cant compare a stock car to a modded car.
70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake
best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: Ron Silva]
#335819
06/02/09 03:22 PM
06/02/09 03:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,436
SO CAL
BB70DUSTER
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,436
SO CAL
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Quote:
I don't think your $25 Pep Boys scanners will work.
"your"?  
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: BB70DUSTER]
#335820
06/02/09 03:38 PM
06/02/09 03:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,180
Detroit, MI
CokeBottleKid
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,180
Detroit, MI
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May I suggest the driver mod? I'm close the next time you have an SRT-8 in your hands you want to track test  . Seriously though if it doesn't run the number obviously something's wrong. You should've stuck it on the dyno with some flow meters (air flow and maybe fuel flow if possible) and gone at it. If it's burning that much oil I'd expect quite a bit of detonation, possibly pulling tons of timing and maybe even throttle. Did you ever think to check throttle position? You know these things are drive by wire...
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. Sorry
[Re: Ron Silva]
#335821
06/02/09 03:44 PM
06/02/09 03:44 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 961
.
TMP66
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 961
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Quote:
Needless to say, I SOLD the car after 4 months and 5700 miles of driving it every day. Lost $9500. I could not deal with it, so it had to go.......
Here is the BIGGEST [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] I have. I want to get another one. But I have no way of figuring out how to make sure I get a good one.
This is a joke?...right?
All you Moparts members losing your jobs, complete careers, home values, etc. these days thought you had problems. 
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: V10nacuda]
#335823
06/02/09 03:53 PM
06/02/09 03:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
Devilbrad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
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Quote:
Not to throw salt in your wounds. But from my experience dragging a newer stick shift car & I hardly ever drive a stick. It TAKES alot to get the shifting right. When we were tuning my brothers 05 Stang & traveling around the Fun Ferd events It took me quite awhile to get the shifting down as good as the other guy driving. That EQUATED to almost a second!!!!!!!!!! Also if you didn't speed shift it forget about a good ET.
V10
Thats why I asked if he had traction control on or off (still waiting for an answer). If its on. every time you shift and screech the tires, it pulls all kinds of timing and uses the brakes to control wheel speed. That will kill your et and mph.
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: CokeBottleKid]
#335824
06/02/09 04:07 PM
06/02/09 04:07 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,880
USA
Ron Silva
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,880
USA
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Throttle position is easy with a driveability test. Now, can I tell you is it going 100% open while driving? No. But will it really make that much difference?
Anyhow since it is a manual you could drive it at lower RPM and whack the throttle open and you do get that deep sound that is associated with a lugging/laboring WOT motor. Otherwise how would you suggest I do it without a DRBII ? I never did check it, but I am not sure the throttle would sweep with KOEO. Maybe if there is a WOT stop on the throtle body you could clay it up and drive and check. Honestly I never checked.
It very easily could be something like an over active knock sensor pulling timing too often or all the time. Could be just overtorqued. But like I said. Try to get a dealer to check it out. And if you could get them to listen to you then how can you be sure they are not going to go after your warrantee etc. I agree that should not be the case especially since they put quarter mile timers in the electronic vehicle information display. I guess the biggest hurdle would be to get a service dept to do anything beyond checking for codes and to convince them it is down on power.
Fred you are such a Gentleman. I too have wasted money a few times over the years....... And don't get me wrong. I had a lot of fun with that car and I am not crying. Like I said before, it is something to think about if you are considering buying one and if it matters all that much to you or not. I am more trying to share info and get yall's ideas. Make people aware.
SRT DEMON ONE SEAT
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: Devilbrad]
#335825
06/02/09 04:23 PM
06/02/09 04:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,717
Rancho Cucamonga, Calif.
PUNK
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,717
Rancho Cucamonga, Calif.
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I am sure the "ET" of the car isnt the real concern here because the traction sucked. Its the MPH people!!! The MPH is the power. I dont really care if you are Mr. 4 Speed, you arent going to get the cars MPH to change 8-10 mph because you can or cant shift that fast or launch the car. Now if this Challenger in question had the MPH that was expected, but the ET was horrible; Im sure this car would still be in the same driveway. The lack of ET could have been chalked up to poor traction, slow shifting (which wasnt the case I can assure you), or just too aggressive launching but the MPH Im sure would have been within a few MPH. My friends Cobra Mustangs, Our 69 Cuda, my friends Z06 vette and my wifes old 02 GT mustang would MPH almost identical when the cars hooked as they did when they spun. What Im saying is ET has nothing to do with this topic, its strictly MPH. MPH is power and this car had little MPH.
It would be nice to think that a dealer would have dug deep into the no MPH concern by checking the cam, its timing, and all the other variables responsible for making the car make power and run smooth, but I say its a FAT chance.
I say, "Off with its head"!!! Now lets move to the next car. LOL.
I
10.53 @ 125mph. 1.37 60 foot. Caltracs and Monoleafs, AFCO shocks.
Heads by INDIO MOTOR MACHINE; IMM.
CP Pistons, PC Carbs.
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: Ron Silva]
#335826
06/02/09 04:27 PM
06/02/09 04:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,880
USA
Ron Silva
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,880
USA
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OK, here is your answer. On MY Challenger that I had the traction control made no difference in quarter mile SPEEDS. And probably not ET's either. Remember, I had to walk it out since it wheelhopped so bad and if it spun I had to pedal it. On the street it wheelhopped about 50% of the time. But just so you know, I tried it all different ways. When I was at Irwindale I tried it all 3 ways and it had no obvious effect. Left it on one time by mistake (no change) and tried it partially disabled and full off. The only thing that changed it at all was removing the air filter added 2 MPH, which in the 1/8th is substantial.
AND: in fact I did a test just to see what would happen because I never saw anyone post any info on this on the challenger web site I went on. I think most Guys were afraid of looking like a dork if they tried to do a burnout and left the traction control on.
Dry street at a dead stop. With traction control full ON, how it is when normal driving after you start the car and drive off, not defeated or partially disabled : Rev engine to 5000 and dump the clutch the traction control does NOTHING for 2 to 3 car lengths. It will even leave dark marks on the street. It will spin and spin and spin and the traction control light is blinking the whole time. Just about the time you are going to top out in first gear and the wheel speed and road speed are going to match the traction control decides to take some action and dial back the power. So how you think it is going to do something on a shift to second is beyond me. I also have laid down some pretty good second gear rubber on a speed shift on the street with the traction control full on. Ones where you can hear it burning rubber. Sorry, but that is not it.
SRT DEMON ONE SEAT
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: Ron Silva]
#335827
06/02/09 04:38 PM
06/02/09 04:38 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,880
USA
Ron Silva
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,880
USA
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No salt in my wounds. I am not mad. I did what I did and I am happy with my descision. I was dissapointed with that particular car and it sucks I lost money. Life goes on and like was said/pointed out, many people have much worse problems. I know I am lucky and I am not trying to downplay that and I don't discount that. I am sorry you felt the need to play that card. This post is about a Dodge Challenger and how it did not live up to expectations. The money was mentioned just to give a perspective. Thats all.
Trust me, I can shift. A lot of Owners complained about the transmissions shifting. I never had any complaints and mine shifted perfectly. I could speed shift it with ease and NEVER missed a shift in that car. Not once. And I am talking about all driving conditions. That is one thing I can reccommend if you like a manual. It was awesome and the sound of the exhaust was perfect stock.
Ron.
SRT DEMON ONE SEAT
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: Ron Silva]
#335830
06/02/09 06:04 PM
06/02/09 06:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,717
Rancho Cucamonga, Calif.
PUNK
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,717
Rancho Cucamonga, Calif.
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I personally spoke with the guys over at Westech which is a dyno and tuning facility located in Ontario California. They are very well known for there dyno and tuning facilities that HotRod and Car Craft magazine use for many of there engine testing and tuning along with chassis tuning. I asked them specifically about the tuneability of this vehicle and whether or not they could check this vehicle out and see if there was something they could do about it. They said. "NOPE" I was told that even if they could "Program" out the reason that it isnt making power, there was no guarantee that the program would "Stick". Evidently Chryslers software was designed to dissallow tampering. There have been many attempts at reflashing the PCMs but the duration of time that the reflash lasts is temporary at the best. They told me that Chrysler is far ahead of the other manufacturers when it comes to "tamper proofing" there software. The GM and Ford stuff evidently is a piece of cake. I respect these guys alot as I have used there dyno facilities and had fuel injected engines tuned there without any issues. The guys over at Westech basically told me that if the dealer/manufacturer couldnt fix this one, the aftermarket guys certainly wont with a mere "tune". They also felt there was more to it than just the tune. Bummer indeed. The car was truelly awesome with the exception of the performance. I saw no reason for that car NOT to turn a 12.9 at 110mph since my friends wifes SRT8 300C went low 13s at 108 at the same track. STOCK!! Oh wait... he chromed the wheels.
10.53 @ 125mph. 1.37 60 foot. Caltracs and Monoleafs, AFCO shocks.
Heads by INDIO MOTOR MACHINE; IMM.
CP Pistons, PC Carbs.
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Re: DODGE let me down........CHALLENGER. Kinda LONG. So
[Re: PUNK]
#335831
06/02/09 06:50 PM
06/02/09 06:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 719
Ohio
Dodgetony
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 719
Ohio
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Quote:
I personally spoke with the guys over at Westech which is a dyno and tuning facility located in Ontario California. They are very well known for there dyno and tuning facilities that HotRod and Car Craft magazine use for many of there engine testing and tuning along with chassis tuning. I asked them specifically about the tuneability of this vehicle and whether or not they could check this vehicle out and see if there was something they could do about it. They said. "NOPE" I was told that even if they could "Program" out the reason that it isnt making power, there was no guarantee that the program would "Stick". Evidently Chryslers software was designed to dissallow tampering. There have been many attempts at reflashing the PCMs but the duration of time that the reflash lasts is temporary at the best. They told me that Chrysler is far ahead of the other manufacturers when it comes to "tamper proofing" there software. The GM and Ford stuff evidently is a piece of cake. I respect these guys alot as I have used there dyno facilities and had fuel injected engines tuned there without any issues. The guys over at Westech basically told me that if the dealer/manufacturer couldnt fix this one, the aftermarket guys certainly wont with a mere "tune". They also felt there was more to it than just the tune. Bummer indeed. The car was truelly awesome with the exception of the performance. I saw no reason for that car NOT to turn a 12.9 at 110mph since my friends wifes SRT8 300C went low 13s at 108 at the same track. STOCK!! Oh wait... he chromed the wheels.
I am not arguing with you but something is not right there. These car are completely tunable. I have a diablo predator tuner and we tuned it on the chassis dyno. Then on top of the Predator tuner, there is CMR software that is able to make drastic changes in the program. Many...many people are tuning these cars and the tune don't just go away or not "stick". It is there until the owner removes it and replaces the stock tune.
I currently run two tunes, one for NA and one for Nitrous.
That shop must not have the CMR software for the Challengers yet.
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