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Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion?
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#32993
05/14/08 07:09 AM
05/14/08 07:09 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 468
Germany, Northcoast
Buschi340
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 468
Germany, Northcoast
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Clair, Liberty stuff wouldn't work here. I tryed to purchase small parts like the pilot bearing and TO Bearing at our local chrysler / dodge dealer. No luck, no stock, extraordinary prices. F.e. the TOB = 144.00 USD, a new dakota flywheel = >1300.00 USD... Liberty market is same small over here.. So the Dakota way is more simple but nothing for "just bolt in" guys. Anyway, I'm using the release fork from the Dakota. But I'm a lil' bit concerned about the play on the shaft.  And I'm looking forward to build this tankstyle x-member. Or do you have a better idea?? Btw, congrats for your newborn. Hope everything is fine! 
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Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion?
[Re: Jerry]
#32994
05/14/08 10:32 AM
05/14/08 10:32 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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Quote:
why not get a stock flywheel redrilled for the smaller clutch? basically all your adding is the 6 holes that bolt on the clutch if i'm understanding this correctly. if its too hard to drill, the flywheel can be EDM, this may not be a really cheap option but with minimal effort you could try it.
Jerry,
The clutch isn't really the issue, it's the flywheel ring gear located differently on the Libby flywheel versus the LA flywheel. With an LA flywheel bolted to the crank, the starter bendix won't reach the ring gear teeth because the ring gear is too far back. I bought a Liberty flex plate that was cheap and available vs. a Libby flywheel which was expensive, unavailable, and useless, and the teeth appear to line up properly. NOTE: The center hub is exactly the same as old Mopar engines.
So, I need to see if an LA flywheel can be put together with the ring gear located in the Libby position, a little over 1 ring gear width closer to the block than stock LA. My stock LA FW's have a little step machined to hold the ring gear in place, not enough to push the ring gear forward enough to work. I'm hoping that maybe an aftermarket flywheel will have a deeper step, OR, maybe the guys at RAM/McCleod/Whoever can make one for not a lot of extra bucks.
Clair
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Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion?
[Re: Buschi340]
#32995
05/14/08 10:40 AM
05/14/08 10:40 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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Quote:
Clair,
Liberty stuff wouldn't work here. I tryed to purchase small parts like the pilot bearing and TO Bearing at our local chrysler / dodge dealer. No luck, no stock, extraordinary prices. F.e. the TOB = 144.00 USD, a new dakota flywheel = >1300.00 USD...
Liberty market is same small over here..
So the Dakota way is more simple but nothing for "just bolt in" guys.
Anyway, I'm using the release fork from the Dakota. But I'm a lil' bit concerned about the play on the shaft.
And I'm looking forward to build this tankstyle x-member. Or do you have a better idea??
Btw, congrats for your newborn. Hope everything is fine!
Thanks for the congrats, Little Sam is doing just fine. His older brother is driving us nuts, though...     
Those are crazy prices for those parts... it's like they're foreign cars or something... Oh, yeah, Daimler's gone now so they ARE foreign cars again...
FWIW, the Libby setup consists of:
Unique bellhousing (no starter locating pocket)
Unique starter motor (short nose)
Unique block plate to locate starter
Unique flywheel (131-tooth, 8-bolt, 10.5" clutch)
The TOB lever is exactly the same as the Dakota part, so I'm guessing that the TOB is also. I strongly suspect that the clutch slave cylinder is also identical, but I haven't verified this yet. The master/slave cylinders are going to be some of the last parts I buy so I can sort out what fits best. Have you checked to see how the Dakota slave cylinder fits against the floor pan?
No advice yet on the x-member, but it looks like you're on the right track. I'm not sure how to do it much different than you or Heap are doing. Big is good if it's strong...
Clair
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Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion?
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#32996
05/14/08 11:20 AM
05/14/08 11:20 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 468
Germany, Northcoast
Buschi340
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 468
Germany, Northcoast
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Quote:
Have you checked to see how the Dakota slave cylinder fits against the floor pan?
no, but now I will check today...
Quote:
No advice yet on the x-member, but it looks like you're on the right track. I'm not sure how to do it much different than you or Heap are doing. Big is good if it's strong...
Problem here in Germany is that you can't do what you want. Only original parts are allowed. So it has to look like a 1972 original part (maybe with small upgrades, but only small) Thats what I'm concerned about. I have to let the car checked from officials every 2 years. If something not right they take the car from the streets...
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Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion?
[Re: Buschi340]
#33000
05/19/08 09:51 AM
05/19/08 09:51 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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OK, here's a small update on what I found looking at the trans this weekend. Primarily, this has to do with the speedometer output on the trans. Note, this is specific to the R154 AFAIK, and may or may not apply to the other "W-series" transmissions that Toyota used from this same trans family. There are two outputs on the trans, an analog for a mechanical speedometer, and an electronic for the VSS signal to the ECM (of the Toyota Supra). Since I hadn't really paid attention to this system before, as I was banking on just using the VSS output with an electronic speedo and as a feed to my EFI. Well, on a whim, I pulled the speedo pinion adapter (similar to good old Mopar stuff), and lo and behold, the threads appear to match the Mopar cable's big end:
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Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion?
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#33001
05/19/08 10:01 AM
05/19/08 10:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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That was pretty cool to see. The only down side is that when the big-end "nut" is seated, it doesn't hold the cable super tight like you might expect. I would guess a thick washer on the inside of the "nut" would do the trick and keep it water tight. That may not even be an issue.
What IS going to be an issue is the difference in the speedo pinion output. Typical Mopars are square-drive, something close to 1/10" or so. The Toyota is round, with a keyway cut in to the output end of the pinion. See pic below for details... Since the Toyota pinion output is MUCH larger than the Mopar output, adapting the Mopar cable should be pretty easy. What I'm guessing is that you can cut off the drive end of the Toyota cable, drill out their cable part, slip in the Mopar cable end, and either JBWeld/Braze/Tackweld the Toyota end on. If this is the case, it looks like some very simple surgery would let you use your stock (or a stock-type) speedometer cable on the Toyota transmission and get on with life.
Clair
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Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion?
[Re: Buschi340]
#33012
05/28/08 05:38 PM
05/28/08 05:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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Ah, so it's the Dak part that points down, and the Jeep Liberty part that is straight out. Both should have the same piston size, since they both use the same clutch lever inside the bellhousing. The Libby part MAY work easier, but you'd have to mount it up next to the brake MC, and space there might get tight.
Question... isn't there a hole in your firewall with a large plug where the OEM A-body clutch pushrod goes? Seems like if there isn't a hole/plug, there should be a depression stamped in the sheet metal that shows the right spot. That seems different than where your circle-X is shown. I'll try to dig up a pic of my stock setup...
Clair
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