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Re: challenger hoods
[Re: cataclysm80]
#327668
05/28/09 09:48 AM
05/28/09 09:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,784
Ontario, Canada
mccannix
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,784
Ontario, Canada
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Challenger hoods certainly were a complicated lot.
I am curious about a couple statments made regarding these.
First the TA hood.."Also optional after 4-13-70 until the end of 1971 production on 340+4 barrel,etc...". I know of a 1971 Challenger RT 340-4 speed ordered May 71 with a TA hood
Still with the car is the letter from Chrylser Corporation stating that he could not get the TA hood at that time, instead he ordered the shaker hood. Opposite to the urban myth about non availability of shaker hoods being replaced by TA hoods. This particular vehicle is an 11,000 original owner car.
I plan on getting a photocopy of this when I am there next month and will post with date.
Also regarding the "third" version shaker hood.
I agree that they did have crumple zones, no raised area for the fratzog emblem, used 3/8 bolts but did "not" use Dodge letters.
The only style of this hood I have ever seen, and I have owned 2 in the past, were NOS, over the counter, call it whatever you like.
I have never seen one that was proven assembly line installed, but I could be wrong. Yes they were eventually installed on cars by owners, but were referred to, back in the day, as bast*rd hoods because of their configuration.
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Re: challenger hoods
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#327669
05/28/09 10:02 AM
05/28/09 10:02 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
cataclysm80
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
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Florida
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Quote:
It was not available with A63 molding group, M44 hood rear/fender molding, or on SE cars due to the hood molding not fitting over the fiberglass.
Tav
I don't know about that? 
That's a beautiful car you have there and I'd love to look it over in person if I ever get the chance, but we all know it's not a real 71 TA. I agree that the rear hood trim can be made to fit on the fiberglass hood. I even thought about doing it myself on my own car. Chrysler literature still says the hood wasn't available with that molding though. I've only ever heard of one car that had it. Dan told me about it and said it was coded for M31. M31 is the code for door top molding only. The rear hood molding would be M44.
I am going to add the A46 trim package to the list of stuff not available. I forgot about it earlier. A46 is the 1971 version of A63. A46 is the same as A63, but lacks the 1970 only astrotone tail panel.
I'm willing to compromise if you'd like, I could remove the "due to the hood molding not fitting over the fiberglass" section. Do you think that would be more accurate?
Tav
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Re: challenger hoods
[Re: cataclysm80]
#327671
05/28/09 01:45 PM
05/28/09 01:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,022
Farmington, CT
KISSAlien
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,022
Farmington, CT
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Quote:
Quote:
Can you tell me the date that this third version of the Challenger Hood might of been used in production.
Unfortunately I cannot. As far as I know, only Daniel Banker had that information, and he has passed away.  He was the true expert on Challenger shaker hoods.
Does anyone know what happened to his library of information on these cars? (photos, broadcast sheet copies, etc.)
Tav
Which reminds me ...
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post5258019
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Re: challenger hoods
[Re: 540challenger]
#327672
05/28/09 02:23 PM
05/28/09 02:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
cataclysm80
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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Quote:
Here is a qustion i am going to purchase a T/A hood for my challenger in a few months is the trim for the hood still available?
Also if it makes a difference i putting this on a 71.
The TA hood trim has a different part # than the steel hood trim. That is because the trim included the retainers. The trim itself is the same, only the retainers are different. They are a little longer for the TA hood.
Depending on the accuracy of your reproduction hood, you might be able to get away with using your original steel hood trim retainers. If not, you might try checking with Tom at RT specialties for different retainers.
I've had good luck with both BE&A and Metro hood trim.
Tav
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Re: challenger hoods
[Re: cataclysm80]
#327673
05/28/09 02:59 PM
05/28/09 02:59 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
540challenger
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master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
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Quote:
Quote:
Here is a qustion i am going to purchase a T/A hood for my challenger in a few months is the trim for the hood still available?
Also if it makes a difference i putting this on a 71.
The TA hood trim has a different part # than the steel hood trim. That is because the trim included the retainers. The trim itself is the same, only the retainers are different. They are a little longer for the TA hood.
Depending on the accuracy of your reproduction hood, you might be able to get away with using your original steel hood trim retainers. If not, you might try checking with Tom at RT specialties for different retainers.
I've had good luck with both BE&A and Metro hood trim.
Tav
Thanks for the information. 
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Re: challenger hoods
[Re: mccannix]
#327674
05/28/09 03:02 PM
05/28/09 03:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
cataclysm80
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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Quote:
I know of a 1971 Challenger RT 340-4 speed ordered May 71 with a TA hood
Still with the car is the letter from Chrylser Corporation stating that he could not get the TA hood at that time, instead he got the shaker hood. Opposite to the urban myth about non availability of shaker hoods being replaced by TA hoods. This particular vehicle is an 11,000 original owner car.
I plan on getting a photocopy of this when I am there next month and will post with date.
I think the TA hood was still available over the counter after 1971, so they didn't permanently run out of them, but it IS possible that there was a shortage for a while. That's very interesting! Please follow it up like you said and get a copy. I'm sure Barry would love to see it also. Maybe this is where the shaker hood urban myth originated?
Quote:
Also regarding the "third" version shaker hood. I agree that they did have crumple zones, no raised area for the fratzog emblem, used 3/8 bolts but did "not" use Dodge letters.
The only style of this hood I have ever seen, and I have owned 2 in the past, were NOS, over the counter, call it whatever you like.
I have never seen one that was proven assembly line installed, but I could be wrong. Yes they were eventually installed on cars by owners, but were referred to, back in the day, as bast*rd hoods because of their configuration.
Thank You, I will fix the part about the "DODGE" letters. I agree that 99.9% of the third version shaker hoods were over the counter parts. I just can't be sure about the other .1% and thought it was worth mentioning. Daniel had said he had seen just a couple Very late 71 cars with that hood which looked original. He wasn't completely convinced that they Were original, but they looked good enough to make him uncertain. Until more of his information, or the cars themselves surface, we may never know.
Tav
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Re: challenger hoods
[Re: KISSAlien]
#327675
05/28/09 03:16 PM
05/28/09 03:16 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
cataclysm80
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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Jeez Tav I hope you type faster than me. 
In all honesty ... with all the knowledge here about these cars I wish everyone could collaborate on a true Challenger restoration guide that would also note all anecdotal evidence of oddities and differences that's been acquired over the years.
Sounds good to me. One option at a time, lets start with hoods right here & now.
Tav
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Re: challenger hoods
[Re: cataclysm80]
#327676
05/28/09 03:53 PM
05/28/09 03:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,108
Chicago Blackhawks
hemicar1971
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,108
Chicago Blackhawks
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If we look at the three last 1971 Hemi Challengers built only one has a Shaker Hood and the very last 1971 Hemi Challenger built has the performance hood and so does the second last. All three cars were built in June and the last Hemi Challenger having a June 16th build date.The third last Hemi Challengers known to be built has a Shaker Hoods that has the Raised portion at the front of the hood with NO D.O.D.G.E on it. It has crush zones and the 1971 Style bolts.
I have never seen any Challengers in 1971 Production that ever did not have the raised portion at the front of the Shaker Hoods.
Lets talks 1970 Challenger Shaker Hoods. There are a few ideas why the hoods were taken off the market,and no need to go there because everyone knows they were taken off.Why is not important here. Daniel Banker,Galen Govier and I talked quite a bit about Shaker Hoods but never ever put our information together. There is a period of time when Chrysler did not put Shaker Hoods on Challenger,but I know of 5 cars that received hoods in this time segment. 3 Challengers in Dec. and 2 in February. Same date in Feb. and two Days in Dec. one day apart. I wrote this information down back in the early eighties and never looked to see if the hoods had crush zones or not or were the 1970 Style or 1971 Style.It was just not that important back in 1980. The data plates said the cars got hoods. The April date that is floating around is the date that Chrysler release the information to the Dealership saying you can now order a Shaker hood on your car and receive it. I know of a 1970 440-6 Challenger that received its Shaker Hood on April 10,1970 according to the fender tag.I believe this car was on hold to receive the Shaker Hood when the Hoods came back into production.This Challenger was ordered in the late fall of 1969.
There are many on this board that have May built 1971 Challengers that received Shaker Hoods from the factory. Tell us what hood you received on your car.
Last edited by hemicar1971; 05/28/09 06:53 PM.
1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
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Re: challenger hoods
[Re: cataclysm80]
#327677
05/29/09 04:32 PM
05/29/09 04:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
cataclysm80
master
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Florida
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Quote:
Along with the shaker hood, you also got the trim ring with gasket, shaker bubble, shaker doors with short operating cable, engine callouts on the side of the bubble, dash mounted carb air cable, baseplate to hood seal, and appropriate air cleaner with baseplate to go with your engine/hood combo.
Did I miss anything? The idea is to list the items that came with a shaker hood that did Not come with the standard hood.
Tav
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Re: challenger hoods
[Re: cataclysm80]
#327679
05/29/09 09:15 PM
05/29/09 09:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
Quote:
Along with the shaker hood, you also got the trim ring with gasket, shaker bubble with shaker doors, engine callouts on the side of the bubble, dash mounted carb air cable, and appropriate air cleaner with baseplate to go with your engine/hood combo.
Did I miss anything? The idea is to list the items that came with a shaker hood that did Not come with the standard hood.
Tav
3 spd wiper.........
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Re: challenger hoods
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#327680
05/29/09 10:14 PM
05/29/09 10:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
cataclysm80
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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Quote:
Did I miss anything? The idea is to list the items that came with a shaker hood that did Not come with the standard hood.
Quote:
3 spd wiper.........
I've been thinking about that actually. I haven't seen it noted in the literature yet, so I thought it best to actually check for 2 speed wiper vs shaker interference on a car. The 2 speed wiper sticks out about 5 3/8ths from its mounting points on the firewall. The 3 speed wiper came with the rallye dash, which came with the RT cars, so only the 1971 JH model shaker cars could have potentially had the 2 speed wiper. I remembered someone who has a 1971 JH model shaker Challenger and asked him if he would check for me. Perhaps he'll chime in here when he gets the answer?
Tav
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Re: challenger hoods
[Re: cataclysm80]
#327681
05/29/09 10:33 PM
05/29/09 10:33 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,675
Mi.
G-Money1320
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,675
Mi.
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Im gonna throw out something here that I seem to remember when I was restoring my 74 Challenger and had a 71 R/T as a parts car. I used and still have the hood from the 71 on my car and I recall the hood bumpers being in a different spot from the 71 to the 74, maybe due to the change in front end configurations changing to a fiberglass in 72 from the all steel fronts in 70-71. Both my hoods are/were the R/T style.
416 stroker from Nick at Compu-flow. 11.14 in full street trim. Seems like a new best every time out.
11.06 open headers----so far!!
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Re: challenger hoods
[Re: mccannix]
#327682
05/29/09 10:38 PM
05/29/09 10:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
cataclysm80
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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Quote:
Actually, if you are listing all the items with shaker that didn't come with standard hood, you'd have to include the short operating cable working in conjunction with the dash mounted carbair cable and the seal on the adapter to fit the hood opening, among many other little things.
Thanks, I added those two items. I hadn't planned on including fasteners unless it was something unique. I know there's a lot of parts with shakers. If anyone can think of something else that needs added, let me know.
Tav
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Re: challenger hoods
[Re: G-Money1320]
#327683
05/29/09 10:52 PM
05/29/09 10:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
cataclysm80
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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Quote:
Im gonna throw out something here that I seem to remember when I was restoring my 74 Challenger and had a 71 R/T as a parts car. I used and still have the hood from the 71 on my car and I recall the hood bumpers being in a different spot from the 71 to the 74, maybe due to the change in front end configurations changing to a fiberglass in 72 from the all steel fronts in 70-71. Both my hoods are/were the R/T style.
That's related to the fenders more than the hood. I'm guessing the scheduled production date on the 71 was earlier rather than later. The 70 hood bumpers are located differently than the later years. The later fenders were notched for mounting provisions for the fiberglass grills. The fender notch caused a movement of the hood bumper and also a slight movement of the hood pin lanyard screw hole. Many 71 cars also exhibit this notch for the later grill shells, even though they have 70-71 style marker lights. I think fenders are probably More complex than hoods, but we'll have to get to that later.
Tav
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Re: challenger hoods
[Re: hemicar1971]
#327684
05/30/09 02:34 PM
05/30/09 02:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
cataclysm80
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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Quote:
If we look at the three last 1971 Hemi Challengers built only one has a Shaker Hood and the very last 1971 Hemi Challenger built has the performance hood and so does the second last. All three cars were built in June and the last Hemi Challenger having a June 16th build date.The third last Hemi Challengers known to be built has a Shaker Hoods that has the Raised portion at the front of the hood with NO D.O.D.G.E on it. It has crush zones and the 1971 Style bolts.
That would be the shaker hood we're calling the second version, which means that IF the third version was factory installed on any cars, it would have happened after that June ?? build date and would also not be on a hemi car.
Quote:
I have never seen any Challengers in 1971 Production that ever did not have the raised portion at the front of the Shaker Hoods.
I haven't either. (I have seen some obvious clones at car shows though.) Here is the quote where Daniel noted the possibility of factory installed third version shakers...
Quote:
There were three styles of Challenger Shaker hoods, (subtle differences) all 3 will interchange freely on any year 70-74 Challenger but 100% correctness will vary per the year application.
1. Style #1. 1970 which has no under hood "crash wrinkles" and a tri star emblem on the peak of the hood.
2. Style #2. 1971, same as above but with "crash wrinkles" added.
3. Style #3. VERY late 1971, new style flat front. These hoods are generally considered over the counter crash replacement parts but there are a couple of existing examples that look convincingly factory original.
Here is a similar quote that Daniel made After the first one...
Quote:
There are three different Challenger Shaker Hoods
Early 1970 (Before early to mid October, 1969) with NO crush zones w/raised boss for triangle emblem
Late 1970 (after April 15th) and 1971 with crush zones w/raised boss for triangle emblem
Late 1971 (or more likely over the counter part) with crush zones but NO raised boss for triangle emblem
I haven't seen those cars myself, so my suggestion of the possibility that the third version may have been factory installed is based Only on Daniels first quote. He's the one that saw the cars. It would appear that in Daniels later second quote, he felt that those cars (regardless of their original appearance) probably had over the counter hoods. Since I haven't seen the cars, am going by Only what Daniel has said, and I think his second (more recent) quote should take precedence, I'm changing my shaker hood post by deleting any reference that the third version shaker hood was possibly factory installed. At least until the cars themselves, or further information presents itself.
Quote:
The April date that is floating around is the date that Chrysler release the information to the Dealership saying you can now order a Shaker hood on your car and receive it. I know of a 1970 440-6 Challenger that received its Shaker Hood on April 10,1970 according to the fender tag.I believe this car was on hold to receive the Shaker Hood when the Hoods came back into production.This Challenger was ordered in the late fall of 1969.
I've heard of other cars production being held up due to parts availability also. I've heard many times that the Scheduled Production Date is only a scheduled date, and is not set in stone. The actual date could vary. To be on the safe side though, I'll go ahead and change the shaker availability date to Apr 10th. It's pretty amazing that this car was being held for a shaker hood, while other cars that had been ordered with shakers were being built with the standard performance hood. Maybe it was ordered by somebody with some influence?
Quote:
Daniel Banker,Galen Govier and I talked quite a bit about Shaker Hoods but never ever put our information together. There is a period of time when Chrysler did not put Shaker Hoods on Challenger,but I know of 5 cars that received hoods in this time segment. 3 Challengers in Dec. and 2 in February. Same date in Feb. and two Days in Dec. one day apart. I wrote this information down back in the early eighties and never looked to see if the hoods had crush zones or not or were the 1970 Style or 1971 Style.It was just not that important back in 1980. The data plates said the cars got hoods.
Yes, I remember you and Daniel talking about this before. (so that everyone else in this thread can keep up) Here's what was said...
Daniel Banker
Quote:
There seems to be NO 1970 N96 Challengers known to exist that were built between October 11th, 1969 and April 15th, 1970. I have seen a few examples but they NEVER have a Broadcast Sheet or Documentation.
hemicar1971
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from memory there were 5 cars that got shaker hoods between Mid Oct. till April 10 when production was to begin again. If I remember correctly there were 3 in Dec. and 2 in Feb.The Dec. cars were two on one day and one on another around the 5-6th.The Feb.cars were on the 21st or 22nd. build date.
Daniel Banker
Quote:
That's very interesting. I have never seen a single 1970 Challenger N96 car built between 10-11-69 and 4-14-70 that had a Broadcast Sheet or Window Sticker to back it up. I'm not saying that there were none built, rather I'd love to find out if there are any out there that are legit.
hemicar1971
Quote:
Daniel I am not sure if I still have the information about what cars exactly got the shaker hoods in Dec and Feb. I believe I have sent a list of 1970 Hemi Challengers,serial numbers only that I collected from 1977 till about 1992 to Ola Niellson for his registery.I can try to see if I can find that list and send it to you if you like,not sure if you still are into that 1970 Hemi Challenger stuff since you sold your wheels.
hemicar1971
Quote:
I have seen 1970 Challenger that did not come with a shaker that have had the hole in the fire wall from the factory,just a mistake at the production plant,but there are a lot of mistakes,remember they were only cars back then to someone working on the line.I have also seen options on the fender tag and not on the broadcast sheet and vise versa.
If the fender tags were fakes, the build dates would have been randomly spread, not grouped into two nice groups. It's unlikely that the fender tags were fakes, because the dates match up fairly well. It doesn't seem like the line worker would stamp the fender tag without putting the right hood on. Did those 5 cars have the shaker hoods on them when you looked at them? Does anyone know where these cars are today? Possibly found some hoods in the warehouse, or prototype hoods for the second version? Seems odd that these 5 cars would get built, while the Apr 10 car you mentioned earlier was waiting. Maybe these cars had been waiting also? Executive cars/promotional cars? I imagine it would be very educational to thoroughly go over any/all of those 5 cars. Were all of the 5 hemi cars?
Quote:
There are many on this board that have May built 1971 Challengers that received Shaker Hoods from the factory. Tell us what hood you received on your car.
I'm thinking all the May 71 build shaker cars should have the second version shaker hood. (My own challenger is not a shaker car, August 69 build standard flat hood JH car.)
Tav
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