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Re: A lot of work for 650 hp [Re: CSK] #3224210
04/01/24 11:56 AM
04/01/24 11:56 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Originally Posted by CSK

Thats the same head I sent you for testing on your flow bench correct ???


Yup.

They are available with several different cnc porting options.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: A lot of work for 650 hp [Re: AndyF] #3224433
04/02/24 07:48 AM
04/02/24 07:48 AM
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It's Complicated
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Something ain't geeing and hawing with that combo. Of course there are "Happy" dynos and "Stingy" dynos. But those numbers seem about 25hp/tq low to me. When Dwayne an I talked about my cam for my LD512 build. We knew we were going for a street specific grind. And when it was all said an done. Even at .575 lift similar duration on a 112 sep SFT cam. It made 640hp670tq @ 5800 with a 850 carb with 10.25 comp and was a point fat on top. I remember the shop dyno guy asking me about my combo. I told him and he said that should make a nice 575hp grocery getter. I remember thinking if it only makes 575 i'll puke. He through the lever and looked at me and said damn.

Last edited by HDNMOPERS; 04/02/24 07:50 AM.
Re: A lot of work for 650 hp [Re: HDNMOPERS] #3224484
04/02/24 12:14 PM
04/02/24 12:14 PM
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Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
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Maybe there was a misprint in the article's title and is was supposed to say "510-Inch Monster Pontiac Engine ONLY Makes 650 HP on the Dyno!"

I looked at those headers and think the boat application makes sense, too

And, boy, does that carb booster look a bit Rube Goldberg


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008]
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: A lot of work for 650 hp [Re: Brad_Haak] #3224485
04/02/24 12:17 PM
04/02/24 12:17 PM
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Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
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Westechs dyno is generally seen as being a very happy one FWIW....Never seen anything off of it that performed anywhere near the numbers it spits out


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: A lot of work for 650 hp [Re: Al_Alguire] #3224542
04/02/24 03:19 PM
04/02/24 03:19 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline OP
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Yeah Westech has always been considered to have a very happy dyno. Steve Brule seems like a very sharp guy with tons and tons of experience so I don't know why their dyno would be happy. If anything, I'd think that he would take extra care to keep it calibrated since he has such a high profile. But I've heard for years that the dyno is happy and that the numbers don't match how the car does at the track. Kind of a mystery to me.

Re: A lot of work for 650 hp [Re: Al_Alguire] #3224546
04/02/24 03:51 PM
04/02/24 03:51 PM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
Westechs dyno is generally seen as being a very happy one FWIW....Never seen anything off of it that performed anywhere near the numbers it spits out

Don't mention that to Steve Dulcich or he'll get mad, lol. I remember years ago there was a discussion about one of Dulcich's builds and that dyno's numbers were brought into question. Steve wasn't very happy about it. rolleyes

Let me follow up by saying that I like Steve Dulcich and love watching his shows, just not a fan of the inflated numbers they published on some builds.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: A lot of work for 650 hp [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3224586
04/02/24 07:46 PM
04/02/24 07:46 PM
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Akron, Ohio
ProSport Online content
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As others have mentioned, it could be going into a boat.
I can say that I personally know 3 different guys local to me that had Kauffman build their Pontiac engines and they were all quick, 9 second N/A cars.


1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
Re: A lot of work for 650 hp [Re: ProSport] #3224624
04/03/24 01:24 AM
04/03/24 01:24 AM
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Melbourne , Australia
LA360 Offline
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I'd imagine the client has asked for the best of everything with a modest HP requirement, it seems to be the most logical explanation? Or a build to grow in to?


Alan Jones
Re: A lot of work for 650 hp [Re: LA360] #3224695
04/03/24 11:07 AM
04/03/24 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by LA360
I'd imagine the client has asked for the best of everything with a modest HP requirement, it seems to be the most logical explanation? Or a build to grow in to?


Could be the case or the engine builder knew it was going in a boat that was going to be driven hard so he opened the checkbook for all the good stuff. I've seen customers spend $30 to $40K for a street car engine. Doesn't happen often, maybe once a year. Have a 428CJ in the shop right now where the owner is going to spend $40K on the engine just because he wants the best of everything. It probably won't make more than 600 hp when finished but it will last forever.

Re: A lot of work for 650 hp [Re: LA360] #3224697
04/03/24 11:07 AM
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Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
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My take on why its a happy dyno is just what you posted here. Its the dyno of choice for magazine write ups and youtube experts....They like/NEED those inflated numbers for thier viewers who dont understand and for the companies who products they are pimping.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: A lot of work for 650 hp [Re: Al_Alguire] #3224717
04/03/24 12:12 PM
04/03/24 12:12 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Not long after the year the Moparts sponsored entry competed in the EM competition, it was announced that the on site barometer at Westech was “off”, and that with that corrected…….the results were on the order of 5% lower.

The year we competed, the preliminary testing was done at 3 separate locations…..Westech being one of them.
The top 3 from each location would then have a shootout at Westech to determine the winner.

Some of the entries from the other two locations saw big gains on the Westech dyno.

There was an “official” explanation that involved some oddball weather anomaly, blah blah blah.
Then at some point after that the barometer story came out.

My recollection is that after the barometer story………the numbers did seem less ridiculous.
There was a time when I remember reading stuff in magazines and on line of engines being tested at Westech and feeling like the results they were reporting seemed so high it was insulting.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: A lot of work for 650 hp [Re: Al_Alguire] #3224718
04/03/24 12:13 PM
04/03/24 12:13 PM
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Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
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Again, I'll bet that's a Cast crank, and it's why he's not got a big cam in it....he's just not chasing High RPM Horsepower.

BTW...455 Pontiacs also have HUGE 3.25" Diameter main bearings, combine the long stroke/piston speed with oil that has to flow over 10" just to travel 360 degrees across each journal. eek

And even the 350 has a 3" main, Probably why there were never too many 350 Pontiacs in Comp Eliminator! work

Last edited by Streetwize; 04/03/24 12:17 PM.

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Re: A lot of work for 650 hp [Re: Streetwize] #3224775
04/03/24 03:06 PM
04/03/24 03:06 PM
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Oregon
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Aftermarket Pontiac blocks usually have smaller mains. I bet the aluminum block in this article was a 3 inch main. The crank was probably forged given the other parts used in the build. Multiple vendors offer forged stroker cranks for Pontiac blocks, especially in the 3 inch main size.

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