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Flat Tappet Guys #3223415
03/28/24 07:41 PM 03/28/24 07:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,855
Witness Protection Program
Kudakidd Offline OP
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Kudakidd  Offline OP
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How many of you use an additive to your engine oil when you do an oil change? I use 20w-50 Valvoline Racing oil w/o an additive. OK what are your thoughts?
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: Kudakidd] #3223416
03/28/24 07:54 PM 03/28/24 07:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
I Live Here
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Rittman Ohio
I just run the Driven 10-30 Hotrod oil for the last flat solid I had. Before that I was a Brad Penn guy and it was very good too. No failures with either oil and no additive.

Gus beer

64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: fourgearsavoy] #3223418
03/28/24 08:04 PM 03/28/24 08:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,855
Witness Protection Program
Kudakidd Offline OP
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Kudakidd  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fourgearsavoy
. Before that It was a Brad Penn guy and it was very good too. No failures with either oil and no additive.

Gus beer


Didn't Penn buy out the old green oil marketed as Kendall GT1?
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: Kudakidd] #3223419
03/28/24 08:10 PM 03/28/24 08:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,754
A collage of whims
topside Offline
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A collage of whims
Yeah, the old GT-1 became Penn.
Been using the Lucas 10w-30 in my FT stuff, no problems.
I'm about out of my old stash of GM EOS for my '89 Dually - also a FT motor - so I'll be switching it to the Lucas or Driven.
The other 2 cars have roller motors.
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: Kudakidd] #3223426
03/28/24 08:36 PM 03/28/24 08:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,036
Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline
Special needs idiot
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Benton, IL.
10w30 VR-1 in my current 540" Hemi for 5 years now. And in my 500" wedge for a decade before that.

No additives, no problems.

Master, again and still
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: DaveRS23] #3223431
03/28/24 08:52 PM 03/28/24 08:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,506
Eagle, Idaho
Neil Offline
The Doctor is in.
Neil  Offline
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Eagle, Idaho
Once it's broken in the need for additives is less important. Too much of some types of oil additives, like zddp, can supposedly lead to the metal corrosion as it alters the oil composition.

Bob is the Oil Guy is a good site to read up on different types of oil and additives. Some real chemist geeks on there that deep dive into things way over the average person's head.

Found this too while reading about camshafts and oil.

https://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oil_myths.pdf
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: Neil] #3223439
03/28/24 09:15 PM 03/28/24 09:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,226
ILLINOIS
V
volaredon Offline
top fuel
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ILLINOIS
I've never had a problem with this, and I don't use any of these boutique oils you guys speak of
But I haven't used any recent production, new lifters in probably 10 years.
I have a car that I am doing a cam swap in this spring "because I want to" and I found a set of new MP lifters that are probably 30 years old still in the wrapper. I'll use VR1 for the first couple of oil changes and then probably whatever I can get.
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: volaredon] #3223452
03/28/24 10:27 PM 03/28/24 10:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,317
Ohio
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jlatessa Offline
pro stock
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Ohio
Valvoline VR-1 in the weight YOUR engine needs.
Why not stick with a winner, There's no magic elixirs.

My 2 cents.

Joe
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: volaredon] #3223453
03/28/24 10:27 PM 03/28/24 10:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,102
Western Md.
skicker Offline
"The Champ"
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Posts: 5,102
Western Md.
Brad Penn with no issues for 10 years on a Racer Brown solid cam and lifters that are 40 years old from a different long block...

...FAFO...
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: volaredon] #3223454
03/28/24 10:34 PM 03/28/24 10:34 PM
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Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
I Live Here
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Omaha Ne
VR-1 here. my machinist has lost a few motors on the dyno. he uses the penn oil. he is quite leery of current flat tappet offerings. When doing a stock rebuild he has someone grind the cams with added taper on the lobes to aid the spinning of the lifter (might be howard's). Anything aftermarket is typically roller. twocents

www.tandmautomotive-omaha.com
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: TJP] #3223463
03/28/24 11:20 PM 03/28/24 11:20 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,233
nowhere
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Sniper Offline
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nowhere
I typically run whatever is the cheapest 10w30, but my lifters are 73 years old. It's not really an oil issue.
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: TJP] #3223488
03/29/24 08:15 AM 03/29/24 08:15 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,966
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
top fuel
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Apollo, PA.
I hate to start this, but I build a few engines a year, The only FT cam I ever lost was with Penn oil at the insistence of my buddy. I typically use VR1. It was also a comp cam. He also broke it in and he is a Chevy guy who ALWAYS spins them over with ignition disconnected until he gets oil pressure prior to firing. I've told him about this, and its like talking to a brick. I feel like I need to knock on some wood now. hammer
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: B1MAXX] #3223516
03/29/24 10:45 AM 03/29/24 10:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,942
WI
Dcuda69 Offline
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WI
I lost a flat tappet Comp a number of years ago using Brad Penn....still not sure why. It sure wasn't my 1st rodeo putting an engine together or doing proper cam break-in...it had about 800 miles on it when it went. Cured it with a solid roller....no more issues.
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: Dcuda69] #3223517
03/29/24 10:54 AM 03/29/24 10:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,573
md
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mopars4ever Online content
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md

I use Hot Rod & Classic Car 10W-30 Motor Oil in my old stuff. High in zinc.
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: mopars4ever] #3223519
03/29/24 10:58 AM 03/29/24 10:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,506
Eagle, Idaho
Neil Offline
The Doctor is in.
Neil  Offline
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Posts: 20,506
Eagle, Idaho
Oil is just not the big deal that it has been made out to be. There are many YouTube videos where guys are showing evidence of poorly machined lifter faces right out of the box. No magic oil is going to help with that problem.
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: Neil] #3223520
03/29/24 11:04 AM 03/29/24 11:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,768
Holland MI Ottawa
2
2boltmain Offline
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Holland MI Ottawa
Originally Posted by Neil
Once it's broken in the need for additives is less important. Too much of some types of oil additives, like zddp, can supposedly lead to the metal corrosion as it alters the oil composition.

Bob is the Oil Guy is a good site to read up on different types of oil and additives. Some real chemist geeks on there that deep dive into things way over the average person's head.

Found this too while reading about camshafts and oil.

https://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oil_myths.pdf


I recently learned the 4.0 Jeep inline 6 was a Hyd Flat tappet engine all the way to its final year of production in 2006. This is a testament that once broken in a higher zinc content is not needed.

Keep old mopars alive.
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: 2boltmain] #3223523
03/29/24 11:27 AM 03/29/24 11:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,506
Eagle, Idaho
Neil Offline
The Doctor is in.
Neil  Offline
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Posts: 20,506
Eagle, Idaho
Those Jeep engines are pretty tough and simple as well. Should be a goal to design engines like that, but instead we get them as complex as humanly possible it seems.


Some videos that point more towards machining errors being the cause rather than oils, or oil additives.

https://youtu.be/e96szd_HbwE?si=7X6jbY7H09uzzwI-

https://youtu.be/pP_GYZWcpok?si=5X94dRnJM2jYqwZ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgMYbNX2DMY

https://youtu.be/LJPnCA8N-P8?si=u_nsCPuIvZzAuQrQ

https://youtu.be/UPvF4FgJYlk?si=BEnGvqDZnYH5HMyU

Powell Machine and MyVintageIron7512 on Youtube have several good videos on this machine and metallurgy of cams and lifters as well.







Last edited by Neil; 03/29/24 11:28 AM.
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: Kudakidd] #3223525
03/29/24 11:33 AM 03/29/24 11:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443
Indiana
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YO7_A66 Offline
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Indiana
I used the Driven Hot Rod oil on my last SFT, and Brad Penn on the previous two HFT's. The new SFT that is in there now will also be Driven HOT ROD with no additives after the initial break in.

1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: YO7_A66] #3223536
03/29/24 12:37 PM 03/29/24 12:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,754
A collage of whims
topside Offline
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In addition to what Neil said - and which I agree with - valve spring pressures seem to play a part.
My old plow truck - '79 K10 with a GM Goodwrench FT crate motor - had no problems with any decent on-sale 10W30.
The valve springs on it were just the stock production stuff...stronger than a ball-point-pen, but hardly high-RPM stiff.
That said, the engine was probably from the mid-'90s era, and it seems likely now that quality control has slipped since then.
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: topside] #3223540
03/29/24 01:06 PM 03/29/24 01:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 268
Anchorage, Alaska
metallicareload Offline
enthusiast
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Anchorage, Alaska
Originally Posted by topside
In addition to what Neil said - and which I agree with - valve spring pressures seem to play a part.
My old plow truck - '79 K10 with a GM Goodwrench FT crate motor - had no problems with any decent on-sale 10W30.
The valve springs on it were just the stock production stuff...stronger than a ball-point-pen, but hardly high-RPM stiff.
That said, the engine was probably from the mid-'90s era, and it seems likely now that quality control has slipped since then.


iagree I had a lobe go flat on a good FT cam after putting on new cylinder heads that had hydraulic roller springs on them. FWIW I’ve been using a half bottle of Lucas 10063 per oil change ever since the EOS supply went dry shruggy

440, 4-Speed, 3.54
1968, when Dinosaurs ruled the Earth
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