Re: Flat Tappet Guys
[Re: Kudakidd]
#3223416
03/28/24 07:54 PM
03/28/24 07:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
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I just run the Driven 10-30 Hotrod oil for the last flat solid I had. Before that I was a Brad Penn guy and it was very good too. No failures with either oil and no additive. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Flat Tappet Guys
[Re: Kudakidd]
#3223426
03/28/24 08:36 PM
03/28/24 08:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,068 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,068
Benton, IL.
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10w30 VR-1 in my current 540" Hemi for 5 years now. And in my 500" wedge for a decade before that.
No additives, no problems.
Master, again and still
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Re: Flat Tappet Guys
[Re: DaveRS23]
#3223431
03/28/24 08:52 PM
03/28/24 08:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,535 Eagle, Idaho
Neil
The Doctor is in.
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The Doctor is in.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,535
Eagle, Idaho
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Once it's broken in the need for additives is less important. Too much of some types of oil additives, like zddp, can supposedly lead to the metal corrosion as it alters the oil composition. Bob is the Oil Guy is a good site to read up on different types of oil and additives. Some real chemist geeks on there that deep dive into things way over the average person's head. Found this too while reading about camshafts and oil. https://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oil_myths.pdf
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Re: Flat Tappet Guys
[Re: volaredon]
#3223453
03/28/24 10:27 PM
03/28/24 10:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,102 Western Md.
skicker
"The Champ"
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"The Champ"
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,102
Western Md.
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Brad Penn with no issues for 10 years on a Racer Brown solid cam and lifters that are 40 years old from a different long block...
...FAFO...
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Re: Flat Tappet Guys
[Re: Neil]
#3223520
03/29/24 11:04 AM
03/29/24 11:04 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,769 Holland MI Ottawa
2boltmain
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,769
Holland MI Ottawa
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Once it's broken in the need for additives is less important. Too much of some types of oil additives, like zddp, can supposedly lead to the metal corrosion as it alters the oil composition. Bob is the Oil Guy is a good site to read up on different types of oil and additives. Some real chemist geeks on there that deep dive into things way over the average person's head. Found this too while reading about camshafts and oil. https://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oil_myths.pdf I recently learned the 4.0 Jeep inline 6 was a Hyd Flat tappet engine all the way to its final year of production in 2006. This is a testament that once broken in a higher zinc content is not needed.
Keep old mopars alive.
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Re: Flat Tappet Guys
[Re: Kudakidd]
#3223525
03/29/24 11:33 AM
03/29/24 11:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443 Indiana
YO7_A66
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443
Indiana
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I used the Driven Hot Rod oil on my last SFT, and Brad Penn on the previous two HFT's. The new SFT that is in there now will also be Driven HOT ROD with no additives after the initial break in.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: Flat Tappet Guys
[Re: Kudakidd]
#3223544
03/29/24 01:43 PM
03/29/24 01:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,068 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,068
Benton, IL.
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There are a couple of points that I believe are worthy of consideration. First, comparing stock applications to hotter builds is not apples to apples. Hotter cams have faster ramp rates, higher lifts, and require more valve spring pressure to control. So, an oil or lifter that would give excellent long term service in a stock application, might not fare so well in an application with the above added stresses. Second, Bob The Oil Guy cautions against adding any additives to your oil. He has found that not all combinations work well together. Some can actually offset others. For flat tappets, particularly in hot rod applications, having the right oil is critical. But as mentioned before, even the best oil can only do so much. Quality of the cam core, the particular quality of the grind and of course the quality of the lifters have all come into question for years now. And let's not forget that roller lifters have had their own share of problems on the street. Personally, on a number of different forums, I read many, many guys who have run the Valvoline VR-1 with no problems. And that has been my experience with both my wedges and my Hemis. It just seems hard to justify spending more money on oil with the many years of success by many guys with the Valvoline. The price and ease of access FOR MOST GUYS is the only reason that it leads my list of oils that others have ran too with good results. Just my
Master, again and still
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Re: Flat Tappet Guys
[Re: Neil]
#3223550
03/29/24 02:18 PM
03/29/24 02:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013 South Park, Pa.
68LAR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
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Seems like everyone has a different opinion as to what to use and not use. For many years now I have been using Rotilla T 15W 40 with STP. My SFT cam has been in this engine and others since 2008. It’s still good.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: Flat Tappet Guys
[Re: FurryStump]
#3224160
04/01/24 08:25 AM
04/01/24 08:25 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,205 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,205
Someplace you aren't
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VR1 10-w30 for me. I tried last few changes running it with one quart of 20w-50 for a witch’s brew I call 13w-35.
I’ll note the Valvoline website says modern oils have other additives and they do not think a lack of zddp is an issue for flat tappets. I’m not chancing it.
I want my fair share
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Re: Flat Tappet Guys
[Re: 73DAD]
#3224311
04/01/24 03:33 PM
04/01/24 03:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,555 Freeport IL USA
poorboy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,555
Freeport IL USA
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I saw on a few threads on other online hot rod forums where a few engine builders have started dissembling and inspecting the new flat tappet lifters before they were installing them. The report is that many have come in without the springs inside, or had the plunger in cocked so it couldn't move, or the fill port plugged up or sticky so it couldn't pump up with oil. Apparently, they have come across enough poorly assembled liters to warrant dissembling and inspection of each one before installing them.
I have no idea if that is factual or not, just passing info I've read on. In the grand scheme of things, it makes more sense having lifter assembly issues then it does having intermittent issues with oil break down on one cam lobe or an individual cam lobe hardness issue.
In this day and age, I think I would take the time to dissemble the lifters and have a look see at all the lifters I was putting against a new cam. I'd only have to see one poorly assembled lifter to make it always worth the time to check them. Its a pain, but given the number of cam/lifter failures going on these days, an once of prevention might be the difference between being happy and not being happy.
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Re: Flat Tappet Guys
[Re: FurryStump]
#3224343
04/01/24 05:27 PM
04/01/24 05:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,228 ILLINOIS
volaredon
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,228
ILLINOIS
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VR-1 here, but I have the EDM lifters. No issues, but if the lifters don’t spin while turning it over by hand. I figure out why and fix it. I never used to hear about spinning lifters in the past (and I've built a few engines) but so far have yet to have a problem with a flat cam besides 1 fuel pump lobe on a /6...... But I didn't know that spinning an over by hand would be enough for the lifters to spin in their bores.... I'm about to do a cam swap in a plain old 318 with hydraulic lifters using a melling cam and MP lifters from 25-30 years ago.
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Re: Flat Tappet Guys
[Re: Underthinker]
#3224362
04/01/24 07:44 PM
04/01/24 07:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,248 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,248
fredericksburg,va
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Hughes Engines website has a really good few pages of cam and lifter installations, decreeing cams and such, use to think it was overkill but I ran a lot of his cams and never ever had any problems when using his instructions. These were all pretty aggressive cams and edm solid lifters. He was a big preacher of spinning the cam with a ratchet and making dang sure all the lifters turned. Very good articles, his oiling system instructions were a mere couple of paragraphs not in the oiling systems article but in the stroker assembly article iirc. All flat tappet lifters ‘roll’ around the cam, do it slide. Cam turns on outside of lifter not center.
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Re: Flat Tappet Guys
[Re: Kudakidd]
#3224439
04/02/24 08:40 AM
04/02/24 08:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,361 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,361
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I use Valvoline VR1 conventional oil in my flat tappet motors. The only reason they don't have rollers in them is they're old and I haven't had a reason to go into them.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Flat Tappet Guys
[Re: volaredon]
#3224440
04/02/24 08:43 AM
04/02/24 08:43 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,240 nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,240
nowhere
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Problem with VR 1 is I don't see it on the shelf anywhere locally. I ordered my last batch via Amazon Welcome to old cars 101. I drive a 51 Plymouth, almost nothing is off the shelf for it anymore.
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Re: Flat Tappet Guys
[Re: volaredon]
#3224443
04/02/24 09:26 AM
04/02/24 09:26 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,817 Connecticut
FurryStump
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,817
Connecticut
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VR-1 here, but I have the EDM lifters. No issues, but if the lifters don’t spin while turning it over by hand. I figure out why and fix it. I never used to hear about spinning lifters in the past (and I've built a few engines) but so far have yet to have a problem with a flat cam besides 1 fuel pump lobe on a /6...... But I didn't know that spinning an over by hand would be enough for the lifters to spin in their bores.... I'm about to do a cam swap in a plain old 318 with hydraulic lifters using a melling cam and MP lifters from 25-30 years ago. Yep, I mark each lifter edge with a sharpy towards the center of the valley. Go on my way setting lash and see where the lines are after. A Hyd cam you won’t have the “true” force on the lifter because of no oil pressure. But it is close enough.
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Re: Flat Tappet Guys
[Re: volaredon]
#3224446
04/02/24 09:29 AM
04/02/24 09:29 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,944 WI
Dcuda69
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,944
WI
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Problem with VR 1 is I don't see it on the shelf anywhere locally. I ordered my last batch via Amazon I buy all my oil and filters from Amazon. The prices are right, delivered to my door in a couple days and I get to avoid that dump known as Walmart.
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