Re: Hdy lifters on a solid cam
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3216323
02/26/24 01:05 PM
02/26/24 01:05 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,864 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
|
master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,864
Pattison Texas
|
also solids have a lash take up ramp that would cause the hydro lifter to not work properly , solid on hydro cam is fine if run very tight
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
|
|
|
Re: Hdy lifters on a solid cam
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3216335
02/26/24 01:23 PM
02/26/24 01:23 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,050 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,050
U.S.S.A.
|
What happens when this is done? I know Solid on a hyd cam run real tight. Are you wanting to do this in hopes of having to not lash valves ?
running up my post count some more .
|
|
|
Re: Hdy lifters on a solid cam
[Re: JohnRR]
#3216401
02/26/24 05:14 PM
02/26/24 05:14 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,290 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,290
fredericksburg,va
|
What happens when this is done? I know Solid on a hyd cam run real tight. Are you wanting to do this in hopes of having to not lash valves ? Nope, just less maintenance. I have 3 solids and 1 roller cam for the Hemi and just thinking of using the pre 1975 hyd lifters I just picked up. I could send one off to be reground for hyd lifters, won’t be a hot rod.
Last edited by cudaman1969; 02/26/24 05:16 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Hdy lifters on a solid cam
[Re: CSK]
#3216489
02/26/24 11:19 PM
02/26/24 11:19 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,881 Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
|
Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,881
Ontario, Canada
|
also solids have a lash take up ramp that would cause the hydro lifter to not work properly , solid on hydro cam is fine if run very tight Explain this please. A hydraulic lifter has preload. What is this "ramp" going to do ???
|
|
|
Re: Hdy lifters on a solid cam
[Re: Stanton]
#3216510
02/27/24 12:44 AM
02/27/24 12:44 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,864 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
|
master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,864
Pattison Texas
|
also solids have a lash take up ramp that would cause the hydro lifter to not work properly , solid on hydro cam is fine if run very tight Explain this please. A hydraulic lifter has preload. What is this "ramp" going to do ??? it will cause the seat timing, duration to be MUCH higher at the valve,.020 lash is gone from the solid, also a lot of solids have an inverted flank, the lobe drops a little just before the ramp, the hydro would start opening the valve very early compared to a solid lifter with the proper lash, I tried it many years ago on my 383 dart, ran like crap, no vacuum.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
|
|
|
Re: Hdy lifters on a solid cam
[Re: CSK]
#3216526
02/27/24 06:16 AM
02/27/24 06:16 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 760 Southington Ct.
turbobitt
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 760
Southington Ct.
|
A solid roller has more stuff going on in the beginning and at the end of the ramp to control valve seating velocities with lash in mind. So basically running a hydraulic lifter on that type of profile can result in a lot more overlap and run really lazy. This may not be true in all cases depending on the lobe profile used. Hydraulic rollers are definitely way more aggressive off the seat than solid profiles. They get away with this because the of hydraulic shock absorber effect and probably some other reasons I can't think of.
For example, If you look through the comp lobe master catalog and compare the "Major Intensity" numbers, basically the difference in degrees between rated duration and duration @.050 lift on a solid profile you will see what I mean. Hydraulic profiles typically give there rated duration at .006" lift so you just need to look at the Major intensity rating on the left side of the table and compare that to solid profiles. Some of the lazy solid profiles have major intensity numbers in the 32-36 range. the more aggressive profiles are in the 28-30 range. The super aggressive valve train parts breakage stuff is <28 degrees major intensities. The hydraulic roller profiles normally run below 30 degrees and more typically in the 26 degree range and considered extremely aggressive on a solid profile. This is why you see people going solid on a hydraulic with tight lash because of the fast lift off the ramp. AG.
1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy.
1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno.
1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
|
|
|
Re: Hdy lifters on a solid cam
[Re: turbobitt]
#3216570
02/27/24 11:57 AM
02/27/24 11:57 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
If the engine you’re considering this on is up and running, and you want to get a feel for how it will behave with Hyd lifters in it…… just set the lash with the solid lifters to nearly zero, and see how you like it. With the Hyd lifters, properly adjusted, it will be zero lash. This lets you experience it without swapping the parts.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: Hdy lifters on a solid cam
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#3216584
02/27/24 12:44 PM
02/27/24 12:44 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
|
I've never done this personally and my only practical experience with it is when I was helping tune a Pro 5.0 Racer who had to run a spec lift Hydraulic Roller (like a B303) cam for the class.
They would run the Morel Solid roller Lifter because back then at least, maybe still Morel used the same long Hydraulic lifter body with a Slug inside of it instead of a plunger. They would set the lash tight like .004-.006 (had to run factory iron heads) and they'ed pick up 500-600 RPM and maybe 30-40 more HP
For Flat tappets I would think the faster ramps (and usually stiffer springs) of a solid Cam would make that a 100% no-no.
I have heard of poeple running "near Zero" like .006" lash solid rollers on Hydraulic roller cams...I would think that would essentially be just like having a milder off-the-shelf solid, So maybe if your HR combo was a bit Over-cammed, that might actually be doable. I would think the lighter bodies (like the BAMS) might offset some of the rotating Mass and with a smoother lobe, maybe that's a thing? Has anyone actually done this? Like I said, I have no skin in that game.
But I cant imagine going hydraulic lifter on an aggressive Solid ramp. After all Hydraulics are "rate of lift" limited by design, that's why they still make solids after all...or so I thought.
Last edited by Streetwize; 02/27/24 12:46 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Hdy lifters on a solid cam
[Re: Twostick]
#3216646
02/27/24 03:22 PM
02/27/24 03:22 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
I’ve tested solid lifters on Hyd cams a couple times. It was just to verify what we suspected was the problem, was actually the problem……the lifters. And in those instances….. it was.
I wouldn’t even try to run Hyd lifters on a solid cam……..because I don’t feel that it would end up with a satisfactory result. Id feel like I was wasting my time. But, as always…….”YMMV”
To me, if you want to run Hyd lifters……..the easy button is…….run a Hyd cam.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: Hdy lifters on a solid cam
[Re: Twostick]
#3216790
02/28/24 11:54 AM
02/28/24 11:54 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,050 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,050
U.S.S.A.
|
Just so everyone is on the same page, is the OP asking about flat tappet or roller cams?
I'm thinking flat myself because he referenced some 1975 lifters he has in stock but then the conversation went solid roller vs hyd roller.
Kevin good question because he says he has 3 solids and a roller ???
Last edited by JohnRR; 02/28/24 11:55 AM.
running up my post count some more .
|
|
|
|
|