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416 stroker build #3213772
02/15/24 06:11 PM
02/15/24 06:11 PM
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plumcrazycuda Offline OP
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Can you share your build? What I would like to end up with is about 500 to 550 HP. What the compression ratio, aluminum heads, roller cam with pump gas or maybe up to 95 or 6 octane mix gas. Just don’t want to have to run much higher. What works for you guys? I am sure you will need more information.

Re: 416 stroker build [Re: plumcrazycuda] #3213792
02/15/24 07:14 PM
02/15/24 07:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,311
Land 'O Lakes
RoadRunnerLuva Offline
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Land 'O Lakes
Engine in my '72 Duster is a 340/418" c.i. stroker.

'72 340 Block .040 with a forged Eagle 4" crankshaft
Stock main caps.. ARP hardware throughout engine
Scat 6.123" I beam rods, Keith Black Icon forged pistons- 10.1 comp.
Melling HV oil pump, strainer. Stock pan
Factory J heads, fully ported and polished, stainless 2.02/1.88 valves. Indy Racing 1.5 roller rockers
Camshaft: Bullet Racing solid mechanical, duration .248/.251 @050, gross lift is .530
Edelbrock single plane Victor 340 intake is ported, and gasket matched. Demon 850 cfm carb.
1-5/8" headers, full 3" inch exhaust to the bumper, with I believe Dynomax mufflers.
Never been dyno'd, but some research, with similar combos, I think it could be around 500-510 HP.... a little less/more?
Car runs on pump gas..93 octane


Plymouth Makes It!
Re: 416 stroker build [Re: RoadRunnerLuva] #3213802
02/15/24 07:30 PM
02/15/24 07:30 PM
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Posts: 11,710
Portage,michigan
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B3422W5 Offline
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Just buy a blueprint engines 408 and have the heads ported . You are there.


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

Re: 416 stroker build [Re: plumcrazycuda] #3213816
02/15/24 09:08 PM
02/15/24 09:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 875
Missouri
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jwb123 Offline
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OK you have 416 cubic inches. I tell people this, how much HP can you build? 1 HP per cubic inches is easy, a few bolt on parts gets you there. I can do 1.5HP per cubic inch with some flow bench work and some computer modeling most of the time, so that is 624 HP So you want to be in the middle of that so very doable goal. Next is what kind of fuel do you want to run, what kind of engine vacuum and drivability do you need, and how much money do you want to spend? You burn air and fuel to make power fuel is easy to add, the air is the problem, so spend your money on decent heads, how much they flow will be the biggest piece of the puzzle.
I cannot tell you how much money and time you will save by using a good engine program to design your builds. I use two, performance trends is the main one, and one called pipemax. I sometimes build my own headers and pipemax calculates best runner size and length of tubes, it also has a good engine program built into it as well. If you get performance trends the manual that comes with it is worth more than the program, it will explain how an engine really works. Performance trends will calculate things like isle vacuum, cranking compression, spark knock and plot advance curves.

Plus it is just fun to plug in combinations and see how they would work. https://www.performancetrends.com/Engine-Analyzer.htm

I used to teach engines at a technical college and used the program in class explaining how engines operate. Next thing is how accurate is it? I just finished a 440 with a 1963 cross ram, program said it would make 605 torque and 615 HP it made on my dyno 605 torque and 600 HP pretty close, cranking compression and idle vacuum was exactly on the number. So put good numbers in and good numbers come out.

Re: 416 stroker build [Re: jwb123] #3213830
02/15/24 09:53 PM
02/15/24 09:53 PM
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plumcrazycuda Offline OP
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Thank you! I will check it out. I will have to get my boy to help me out with the computer end.

Re: 416 stroker build [Re: plumcrazycuda] #3213915
02/16/24 11:16 AM
02/16/24 11:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,976
new jersey usa
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11secdart Offline
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11secdart  Offline
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new jersey usa
I am at 410 c.i.... 40 over 360 Magnum block , 4 inch stroker crank , W2 heads and Victor W2 intake , Bullet 585 / 595 lift mechanical cam , 750 hp carb , TTI 1 7/8 headers ... 546 hp / 520 tq on 93 octane pump gas

Last edited by 11secdart; 02/20/24 11:00 AM.

68 Dart 410 / 904
92 D150 original owner
21 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, Big Horn , Hemi ,4x4
23 Audi Q5
16 Honda HRV
Re: 416 stroker build [Re: plumcrazycuda] #3214097
02/17/24 10:31 AM
02/17/24 10:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,755
Windsor, ON, Canada
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Diplomat360 Offline
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The ride is a 1980 Dodge Diplomat Coupe, 3600 lbs, weekend toy, occasional track visit but in reality 98% of the time it's a street ride.

The engine combo:

1) 408" based on 360 block, '74 casting
2) Eagle forged crank, 4" stroke
3) H-beam connecting rods, Eagle
4) PowerPak piston and ring kit, Mahle
5) W2 Econo heads, see separate thread HERE for flow details, etc
6) hydraulic roller cam, XR292HR-12, Comp cams, 240/248 @0.050" on 112 LSA, 0.581/0.584 lift with 1.6 rockers (Harland Sharp), installed 2deg advanced
7) intake is the Edelbrock Victor W2 (single plane), topped off with a Carter TQ 9800 series carb
8) static CR of 10:1, running a pretty fast mechanical ignition curve using 91 octane (21deg at idle, 35 at 2000)
9) headers are TTI 1-7/8" primary tubes

rest of the driveline is: 4K stall converter, 727, 4.10 out back...car is fast, haven't taken it to the track yet as the combo finally came together pretty late in the season last year!

FYI - this combo pulls about 9" of vacum at idle, which is 800-850 RPM, so my power brakes stay pretty happy.

Re: 416 stroker build [Re: Diplomat360] #3214853
02/20/24 10:29 AM
02/20/24 10:29 AM
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Posts: 9,872
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
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Streetwize  Offline
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Weddington, N.C.
I have 2 the 414 is in the 600+ /6500+ rpm range and the 440 is a pump gas 550-ish, hp, mega torque all done by 5500 rpm range

414"
11.57:1
4" Ohio crank
Airwolf heads ~310 cfm @ .600
Mahle pistons
Bullet SR 260/269 @.050 .660/645 lift, (more like .630/610 with the 59 degree Lifter valley, lol) 108 in at 106
1 7/8" headers
Ported Victor 340 intake
1000 cfm Pro-systems carb

440
4.25 Bloomer crank
6.2" rods, 2.00" rod journals
1.25" ch SBC lightweight ICON race pistons (new eyebrows)
Ported w2's with 2.08's and ceramic coated chambers and exhaust ports
10.2:1 (pump gas)
Street Dominator single plane
Bullet SR 251/259 @. 050 , 109 in at 105? (if I remember right) .605 gross lift (old ultradyne grind called the .4033 street lobe, great profile, massive torque & easy on the springs)
Fabricated 1 7/8" headers (expert work by Stephen Daurity)
Fi-tech fuel injection

If I were building one for the street I'd definitely build with a .927 pin and I would go 4.25" crank and keep the revs down.



Last edited by Streetwize; 02/20/24 10:34 AM.

WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: 416 stroker build [Re: plumcrazycuda] #3215098
02/21/24 10:54 AM
02/21/24 10:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
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Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
My 408 was in the HP range the OP is looking for. 360 block,.030" over, 4.00" Compstar forged crank, 6.125" Compstar rods, Diamond dish pistons, 10.8-1, flat solid cam, 260/264° @ .050", .628/.633" lift with 1.6 rockers, Curtis Boggs ported Edelbrocks, Ryan Johnson freshened them and installed 2.055" intake valves, port matched Victor 340, Biggs 950HP. It ran 6.57 at a tick over 104 in the 1/8 at 3240# on pump 93.

Re: 416 stroker build [Re: justinp61] #3216559
02/27/24 10:50 AM
02/27/24 10:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,872
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
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Streetwize  Offline
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Weddington, N.C.
A couple Rules of thumb I like for a PURE STREET DRIVEN (Occassional week-end strip/grudge night) small block stroker Combos anywhere from 390-440":

PBR (Pittsburgracer) mentioned in a another thread that head flow "targets" at particular lifts are "essential for great overall torque PLUS a motor that will pull strong to at least 6000 rpm.

He stated 200CFM at .300 and I agree 100%.... you're leaving torque on the table if you can't.

the key to this "Recipe" is I like to see (and build around) At Least:

200 CFM @ .300
250 CFM @ .400
265 CFM @ .450
280 CFM @ .500

That's it, I wouldn't worry very much about over .500 as long as it doesn't stall. Mid lifts carry the momentum (torque) through the ports. Note: Stock Edelbrock RPMs won't hit these target numbers (~10 to 25 cfm lower at all points) without some VJ/Port work.

With at least a 10.5:1 Bottom end with decent quench and aluminum heads. 10:1 for Iron heads.(*)
A decent Single plane manifold like a Victor 340, the manifold needs to outflow the head. I generally don't like the Super Victor unless your running deep gears and ~4000 stall, this combo would work a typical 9 1/2-10" 3200-3500 stall and mid 3 gears. The Performer RPM would be best for the 318 based 390 but generally I prefer the Single plane because I don't believe (not 100% sure) an out of the box Performer RPM will flow the higher head flow numbers without at least some work.
A good Carb at least 800cfm with proper attention to tuning/Jetting and accelerator pump timing. A well-tuned 800 AVS will work very well here too.
1 3/4 minimum 3" collector (1 /7/8 x 3 1/2" is best on the 408 and bigger motors or lighter A body cars, but for a B or E body with full exhaust I'd honestly stick with the smaller pipes)

Cam: From 232-238 @.050 Intake and 236-244 @ .050 on the exhaust and .520-560" lift, 108 to 110 Spread and I like the cam in (early) at least 4-6 degrees. Lean to the lower side of the scale for anything 318 Based.
A Hydraulic roller will make another 30 lb/ft across the board over a flat tappet but for some people it's cost prohibitive and not in the budget, and there are still a few really stout hydraulic FT cams out there. You only need ~145 degrees duration @.200 on the Intake (~150 @.500 min exhaust) with the head flow I described to hit the target hp/tq...so Anything above that with the same Seat-to-seat is a bonus...and will carry the tq/rpm higher. EX: Both the Bullet 231/239 @. 050 and the Comp 232/237 @.050 Magnum "circle track" Hydraulic Flat Tappets work very well in a combo like this if you're on a budget.
Solid FT or SR add 8-10 degrees @ .050 to both numbers (lash compensation) but use a nice easy on the springs, Street lobe like the Bullet/Ultradyne .4033, (I run a 251/259 .605 lift .4033 lobe on a 109 spread in my 440 W2.

Distributor should have ~14-20-ish initial and 30-34 total (Optimal is 100% dependent on your weight/stall and gearing and how good your Compression/Chamber efficiency is (*)) all in by ~2000-2400. Basically thats the range, as much as it wants on the low side and as little as you need to make optimum power on the high side.

This is a pretty solid recipe for a motor that will make you feel like you really have a stroker in the car, And I've built several Mopars as well as the Ford SB Windsor 427" (4.04" x 4.17") in my Cobra replica around this basic recipe, and I have a friend that used this same recipe for a 442" 401 AMC (made 545/545 on the engine dyno) in his CJ-7 Jeep, and it runs 12.oh's in the 1/4.....and that's with a TH400 trans at 3800 pounds and with 33" Mudders on it!! That same motor in a 3000 pond AMX would go in the 10's.

BTW: This also works for a stock stroke 440 big block and at least one 455 Buick...Buicks like wider 112-114 lobe spreads and the cam in later though.

You're looking for at least 1.2-1.25 LB/ft and Hp per cube and AT LEAST 90% of peak torque available from ~3200-5600. Yes, you can get more ( +1.3 TQ/HP cube) with a spicier motor and more porting of the heads and manifold, but chances are you won't even notice it or miss it on the street...and this is 93 pump gas friendly.

Again, this is a 90% STREET Motor where roll-on/part throttle and ~2500-ish highway cruising is very important. If you want Neck-snapping roll-on torque like a 427 Shelby Cobra would give you....This combo does that...100%.

In a lot of ways it's easier to build a 600HP small-block ( ~260-ish @.050. ~650 lift Solid roller, 11.5:1, Big headers, 300-ish cfm @ .550, because it pretty much works for any 400+ " small block) than it is to build a fun and reliable 500+ hp street motor. But in a race motor you don't really care about 2600 rpm cruising because you're typically running 5000+ stall on slicks.






Last edited by Streetwize; 02/27/24 02:56 PM.

WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0






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