Re: Dana 60 pinion preload
[Re: challenger451ci]
#3212923
02/12/24 12:24 AM
02/12/24 12:24 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,611 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,611
Fulton County, PA
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15-17, but I’m doing performance stuff, not something that needs to go 100,000 miles. Class cars would be lighter.
Pinion is always checked less carrier. Then add what you need to the carrier to get total turning load number. I never do the carrier heavy enough to need a case spreader. But again, looking for performance.
40 is a bunch. Don’t think I would ever go beyond mid 20s.
Last edited by CMcAllister; 02/12/24 12:25 AM.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Dana 60 pinion preload
[Re: challenger451ci]
#3212954
02/12/24 02:44 AM
02/12/24 02:44 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,228 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,228
Bend,OR USA
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13 to 17 inch lbs. on used bearings, 20 to 25 inch lbs. on new bearing with the pinion gear pointed straight up per the 1970 FSM I check them both ways, forward and reverse Those numbers work well
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 02/12/24 02:45 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Dana 60 pinion preload
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3212965
02/12/24 08:50 AM
02/12/24 08:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,570 Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,570
Motor City
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13 to 17 inch lbs. on used bearings, 20 to 25 inch lbs. on new bearing with the pinion gear pointed straight up per the 1970 FSM I check them both ways, forward and reverse Those numbers work well Yes, same here. I set mine up at 18-20 no issues thus far several years on it street and strip.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Dana 60 pinion preload
[Re: dvw]
#3213015
02/12/24 01:24 PM
02/12/24 01:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 292 NY
challenger451ci
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 292
NY
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I don't think there is enough varience in performance to worry. Make sure there is enough to keep some preload after it gets beat on. Otherwise it can beat tthe shims out. The most important thing I've learned is to loosen the backlash up to .010"-.012". If running tighter as the teeth flex they stay bent slightly and loose backlash. Then threre isn't roo for lube causing the pinion teeth to crack. Most drg race gear guys I've talked to don't like synthtic fluid either. Doug I was thinking exactly what you said...make sure it doesn't get loose after a good beating, but not so tight it makes heat and kills the bearings. This doesn't see a ton of street cruising, but it's not out of the question that it'll see a 20 mile trip occasionally. Hadn't thought about increasing backlash. Any theories on why you wouldn't run synthetic? It is a cushion/shock thing? I would think coming off the T-brake hits the ring and pinion pretty hard. I suppose in an 1/8mi not a lot of heat builds up in the rear, so temp isn't a concern so synthetic isn't a huge benefit.
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Re: Dana 60 pinion preload
[Re: challenger451ci]
#3213040
02/12/24 02:21 PM
02/12/24 02:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,852 MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,852
MI, usa
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Hadn't thought about increasing backlash. Any theories on why you wouldn't run synthetic? It is a cushion/shock thing? I would think coming off the T-brake hits the ring and pinion pretty hard. I suppose in an 1/8mi not a lot of heat builds up in the rear, so temp isn't a concern so synthetic isn't a huge benefit. [/quote]
My car leaves pretty decent off the foot brake. Mid to high 1.2X 60ft @3350-3550lbs depending on ballast. It's on it's 4th R&P. The first three all tightened up from the .007"-.008" they were set at to zero. Two of them cracked pinion teeth. One actually broke a tooth off. The cracks always start under the head of the pinion. Ring gears appear undamaged. Three different brand gear sets including one that was a pro gear. I sought out help from Moser, Strange, and a local guy Leo Zynda. All three said the same thing. Loosen it up. Don't run synthetic. First set went 425ish no cracks Motive street gear), 2nd set no brand 160ish broke pinion teeth, 3rd set 150ish (pro gear cracked teeth). The current set (Motive street gear) have 300+ with no noise. They are set at .012" wit h Lucas 85/140. Could always tell when there was a problem coming. Coast with the engine off into staging. Click, click, click. Doug
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Re: Dana 60 pinion preload
[Re: dvw]
#3213055
02/12/24 03:30 PM
02/12/24 03:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,290 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,290
fredericksburg,va
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Hadn't thought about increasing backlash. Any theories on why you wouldn't run synthetic? It is a cushion/shock thing? I would think coming off the T-brake hits the ring and pinion pretty hard. I suppose in an 1/8mi not a lot of heat builds up in the rear, so temp isn't a concern so synthetic isn't a huge benefit.
My car leaves pretty decent off the foot brake. Mid to high 1.2X 60ft @3350-3550lbs depending on ballast. It's on it's 4th R&P. The first three all tightened up from the .007"-.008" they were set at to zero. Two of them cracked pinion teeth. One actually broke a tooth off. The cracks always start under the head of the pinion. Ring gears appear undamaged. Three different brand gear sets including one that was a pro gear. I sought out help from Moser, Strange, and a local guy Leo Zynda. All three said the same thing. Loosen it up. Don't run synthetic. First set went 425ish no cracks Motive street gear), 2nd set no brand 160ish broke pinion teeth, 3rd set 150ish (pro gear cracked teeth). The current set (Motive street gear) have 300+ with no noise. They are set at .012" wit h Lucas 85/140. Could always tell when there was a problem coming. Coast with the engine off into staging. Click, click, click. Doug [/quote] A long time ago (70s) Chrysler engineers found out the Dana under harsh load (clutch dropped @ rpm) the gears would actually suck (bend) into the pinion, so they recommended 12-15 thousands backlash. I think they set pattern a little different too
Last edited by cudaman1969; 02/12/24 03:30 PM.
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Re: Dana 60 pinion preload
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3213069
02/12/24 04:35 PM
02/12/24 04:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,733 Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,733
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
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Hadn't thought about increasing backlash. Any theories on why you wouldn't run synthetic? It is a cushion/shock thing? I would think coming off the T-brake hits the ring and pinion pretty hard. I suppose in an 1/8mi not a lot of heat builds up in the rear, so temp isn't a concern so synthetic isn't a huge benefit.
My car leaves pretty decent off the foot brake. Mid to high 1.2X 60ft @3350-3550lbs depending on ballast. It's on it's 4th R&P. The first three all tightened up from the .007"-.008" they were set at to zero. Two of them cracked pinion teeth. One actually broke a tooth off. The cracks always start under the head of the pinion. Ring gears appear undamaged. Three different brand gear sets including one that was a pro gear. I sought out help from Moser, Strange, and a local guy Leo Zynda. All three said the same thing. Loosen it up. Don't run synthetic. First set went 425ish no cracks Motive street gear), 2nd set no brand 160ish broke pinion teeth, 3rd set 150ish (pro gear cracked teeth). The current set (Motive street gear) have 300+ with no noise. They are set at .012" wit h Lucas 85/140. Could always tell when there was a problem coming. Coast with the engine off into staging. Click, click, click. Doug A long time ago (70s) Chrysler engineers found out the Dana under harsh load (clutch dropped @ rpm) the gears would actually suck (bend) into the pinion, so they recommended 12-15 thousands backlash. I think they set pattern a little different too Yep. The Mopar Drag Seminars back in the later 70's recommended the increased backlash because the housing toes in at launch which drives the ring gear into the pinion cracking the teeth.
Last edited by GomangoCuda; 02/12/24 04:42 PM.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: Dana 60 pinion preload
[Re: challenger451ci]
#3213240
02/13/24 03:40 PM
02/13/24 03:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,228 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,228
Bend,OR USA
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I think I would reset my backlash between .006 and .010, maybe as loose as .012 on used gears. I saw a lot more than that , up too .016 possibly, I wouldn't measure the back lash on those that I was changing ratio on
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 02/14/24 01:01 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Dana 60 pinion preload
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3213323
02/13/24 09:17 PM
02/13/24 09:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,611 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,611
Fulton County, PA
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I've used Amsoil Severe gear in a number of rears that have seen hard use over a significant number of runs, and the gears come out looking great.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Dana 60 pinion preload
[Re: CMcAllister]
#3213479
02/14/24 12:16 PM
02/14/24 12:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 422 montana
BANDIT
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 422
montana
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Also been running the Amsoi[ severe 75-140 in my 1000 to 1400hp 9" stuff. Gears have been looking good so far. Jim.
64 Dodge Coronet 440. In progress 1998. Dodge Avenger. 8.35@165. 4400 DA 250” Neil and Parks Slip Joint. 7.36@183. 4600 DA 242" Mullis Dragster. 6.90@ 200mph
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