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Re: Old school 509 purple shaft cam specs.
[Re: Ramman]
#3121724
02/15/23 01:03 PM
02/15/23 01:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,841
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,841
S.E. Michigan
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Cam card? Not from Mopar.
In the words of Muddy Waters:
“You can’t spend what you ain’t got, and you can’t lose what you ain’t never had”
Victory library will be your best resource and even that is debatable on certain grinds.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Old school 509 purple shaft cam specs.
[Re: ZIPPY]
#3121738
02/15/23 02:03 PM
02/15/23 02:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,500
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,500
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Cam card? Not from Mopar.
In the words of Muddy Waters:
“You can’t spend what you ain’t got, and you can’t lose what you ain’t never had”
Victory library will be your best resource and even that is debatable on certain grinds.
Ain't that right,  When I read this post I went and looked at a new still in the box P4120235 484" lift camshaft and lifters and NO cam card. All you get is a label on the box with the specs, lucky I still have the original box. The box "was" pretty though, I guess that's where they spent the money instead of on the "cam card"? 
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Re: Old school 509 purple shaft cam specs.
[Re: Ramman]
#3206451
01/20/24 11:06 AM
01/20/24 11:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,712
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,712
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
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They list a centerline of 108°. Is that suggested installed centerline or lobe separation angle. If installed centerline, what lobe separation angle was ground into this cam? Thanks forum. 108 is the lobe separation angle. If you install it at 108 intake centerline it will have split overlap. Usually these should instead be installed advanced a few degrees. 103 or 104 intake centerline is what I would go for.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: Old school 509 purple shaft cam specs.
[Re: A727Tflite]
#3206631
01/20/24 07:15 PM
01/20/24 07:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,712
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,712
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
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Seems some people are confused between the meaning of LSA and Centerline.
The only confusion I see in this thread is Larry Sheppards 50 year old chart. Centerline is not ground into the cam, it is determined at assembly. The column labeled Centerline should be labeled Lobe Separation Angle and then he probably could have added another column labeled Recommended Installed Intake Centerline. You can change the installed centerline - you can’t change the LSA.
I doubt any manufacturer advises the user to install the cam using LSA. True but if the cam has symmetrical lobes as I am sure all of these cams do then if installed Straight Up the ICL will be the same as the LSA. In practice most people will install these cams advanced at least 4deg. resulting in an ICL less than the LSA. At the risk of complicating this more, the Intake closing event is what affects cylinder pressure. When Harrold Brookshire was grinding NASCAR cams he didn't even tell the teams ICL and LSA. Probably because they are not really relevant with nonsymmetrical lobes.
Last edited by GomangoCuda; 01/20/24 07:24 PM.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: Old school 509 purple shaft cam specs.
[Re: GomangoCuda]
#3206636
01/20/24 07:31 PM
01/20/24 07:31 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,069
Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,069
Michigan
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Seems some people are confused between the meaning of LSA and Centerline.
The only confusion I see in this thread is Larry Sheppards 50 year old chart. Centerline is not ground into the cam, it is determined at assembly. The column labeled Centerline should be labeled Lobe Separation Angle and then he probably could have added another column labeled Recommended Installed Intake Centerline. You can change the installed centerline - you can’t change the LSA.
I doubt any manufacturer advises the user to install the cam using LSA. True but if the cam has symmetrical lobes as I am sure all of these cams do then if installed Straight Up the ICL will be the same as the LSA. In practice most people will install these cams advanced at least 4deg. resulting in an ICL less than the LSA. At the risk of complicating this more, the Intake closing event is what affects cylinder pressure. When Harrold Brookshire was grinding NASCAR cams he didn't even tell the teams ICL and LSA. Probably because they are not really relevant with nonsymmetrical lobes. Agreed, should have had two columns, Design Centerline and LSA. Both probably ignored by the vast majority of guys, they stabbed the cam and lined up the dots and hoped for the best. The more educamated guys know what to do. As for the NASCAR guys, I bet they ran a ton of dyno sessions and knew exactly what the engines wanted for LSA and ICL.
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Re: Old school 509 purple shaft cam specs.
[Re: elmor353]
#3206969
01/21/24 07:33 PM
01/21/24 07:33 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,805
Arlington, Texas
bobby66
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,805
Arlington, Texas
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The first 2 cams on A12's list appear to be the same cams. Why 2 different part numbers? I think the taper was different on the 6-pack cam.
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Re: Old school 509 purple shaft cam specs.
[Re: bobby66]
#3207019
01/21/24 09:54 PM
01/21/24 09:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,308
Land 'O Lakes
RoadRunnerLuva
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,308
Land 'O Lakes
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Back in the late '80's...I had the "677" MP cam in my 440 powered '69 300 'vert. Stock block/heads, just a three angle valve job, and fresh valve train. 10.1 comp. and headers. We used a reconditioned CH4B intake, with a Holley 650. Engine ran out of steam at 4,500ish RPM. A few months later, we swapped out to the .509 cam, installed it at 104 degrees. Changed to a new 3310 750 Holley. What a HUGE night and day difference the way that car ran. With that combo (and a 8.75" 3.91 sure grip)... It ran 14 teens -low 20's @99mph in the quarter mile..on L60-15 street tires and full 2-1/2" exhaust. Won a few street races as well, including against a new (at the time) turbo T type Buick Regal. Mr. Regal was shocked and saddened that a 4,500 lb. "big boat" had kicked his ass! 
Last edited by RoadRunnerLuva; 01/21/24 10:09 PM.
Plymouth Makes It!
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Re: Old school 509 purple shaft cam specs.
[Re: RoadRunnerLuva]
#3207022
01/21/24 10:01 PM
01/21/24 10:01 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,233
nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,233
nowhere
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Back in the late '80's...I had the "677" MP cam in my 440 powered '69 300 'vert. Stock block/heads, just a three angle valve job, and fresh valve train. 10.1 comp. and headers. We used a reconditioned CH4B intake, with a Holley 650. Engine ran out of steam at 4,500ish RPM. A few months later, we swapped out to the .509 cam, installed at .104 degrees, and a new 3310 750 Holley. What a huge night and day difference the way that car ran. With that combo (and a 3.91 sure grip)... It ran 14 teens -low 20's @99mph in the quarter mile..on street tires and full 2-1/2" exhaust. Won a few street races as well, including against a new (at the time) turbo T type Buick Regal. Mr. Regal was shocked and saddened that a "big boat" had kicked his ass! You changed at least two things, the cam and the carb. Any idea what made the biggest difference?
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Re: Old school 509 purple shaft cam specs.
[Re: Sniper]
#3207025
01/21/24 10:15 PM
01/21/24 10:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,308
Land 'O Lakes
RoadRunnerLuva
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,308
Land 'O Lakes
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Back in the late '80's...I had the "677" MP cam in my 440 powered '69 300 'vert. Stock block/heads, just a three angle valve job, and fresh valve train. 10.1 comp. and headers. We used a reconditioned CH4B intake, with a Holley 650. Engine ran out of steam at 4,500ish RPM. A few months later, we swapped out to the .509 cam, installed at .104 degrees, and a new 3310 750 Holley. What a huge night and day difference the way that car ran. With that combo (and a 3.91 sure grip)... It ran 14 teens -low 20's @99mph in the quarter mile..on street tires and full 2-1/2" exhaust. Won a few street races as well, including against a new (at the time) turbo T type Buick Regal. Mr. Regal was shocked and saddened that a "big boat" had kicked his ass! You changed at least two things, the cam and the carb. Any idea what made the biggest difference? I would say they both made a big difference, but that .509 cam was perfect, for that combo. If that same combo was in an A body, it would have been a high 11 second car...IMO.
Plymouth Makes It!
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Re: Old school 509 purple shaft cam specs.
[Re: RoadRunnerLuva]
#3207027
01/21/24 10:42 PM
01/21/24 10:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,240
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,240
fredericksburg,va
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Back in the late '80's...I had the "677" MP cam in my 440 powered '69 300 'vert. Stock block/heads, just a three angle valve job, and fresh valve train. 10.1 comp. and headers. We used a reconditioned CH4B intake, with a Holley 650. Engine ran out of steam at 4,500ish RPM. A few months later, we swapped out to the .509 cam, installed at .104 degrees, and a new 3310 750 Holley. What a huge night and day difference the way that car ran. With that combo (and a 3.91 sure grip)... It ran 14 teens -low 20's @99mph in the quarter mile..on street tires and full 2-1/2" exhaust. Won a few street races as well, including against a new (at the time) turbo T type Buick Regal. Mr. Regal was shocked and saddened that a "big boat" had kicked his ass! You changed at least two things, the cam and the carb. Any idea what made the biggest difference? I would say they both made a big difference, but that .509 cam was perfect, for that combo. If that same combo was in an A body, it would have been a high 11 second car...IMO. My Duster 383 with that cam carb combo went 11.65 118, st Hemi vert
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