Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Anyone tried this ? #3199082
12/21/23 11:28 AM
12/21/23 11:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,916
A shed in England
Tig Online work OP
master
Tig  Online Work OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,916
A shed in England
Anyone ever tired this ? Does it actually work ? What were the flow numbers before and after ? TIA up

[Linked Image]


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Tig] #3199086
12/21/23 11:58 AM
12/21/23 11:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,871
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
S

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,871
Ontario, Canada
That would have taken some time to program !!!

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Stanton] #3199092
12/21/23 12:30 PM
12/21/23 12:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,075
Michigan
A
A727Tflite Offline
master
A727Tflite  Offline
master
A

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,075
Michigan
Saw this on some Glidden stuff way back. Piston domes too.

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: A727Tflite] #3199094
12/21/23 12:40 PM
12/21/23 12:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
master
gregsdart  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
Simular to golfball airflow techknowlogy?


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: gregsdart] #3199095
12/21/23 12:46 PM
12/21/23 12:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
The term snake oil can be inserted here.....Its been around for a couple decades now


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Al_Alguire] #3199101
12/21/23 12:54 PM
12/21/23 12:54 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,980
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
top fuel
B1MAXX  Offline
top fuel

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,980
Apollo, PA.
Builds up the boundary layer, makes the port "smaller" is my take.

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: B1MAXX] #3199114
12/21/23 01:46 PM
12/21/23 01:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,916
A shed in England
Tig Online work OP
master
Tig  Online Work OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,916
A shed in England
Just wondering is all, there was quite a debate on faceache with both sides of the argument but no conclusive proof either way. Seems like the import guys are the majority of the "yays".
My take is if it did work, it would be available as an CNC option on every decent cylinder head available. shruggy


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Tig] #3199127
12/21/23 02:05 PM
12/21/23 02:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,510
Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda Offline
master
340Cuda  Offline
master

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,510
Tulsa, Oklahoma
The late Jim McFarland was a proponent of this. I respected Mr. McFarland a lot but there sure has not been wide spread adoption of the dimples.

Mythbusters did something like this on a whole car and I think in their opinion he made the car more aerodynamic.

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: 340Cuda] #3199131
12/21/23 02:12 PM
12/21/23 02:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,126
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
super stock
Brad_Haak  Offline
super stock

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,126
Loudoun County, VA
Dimples, riblets ("shark skin"), burr finish... all forms of port surface finishing that some have claimed show improvements and others have doubted vociferously catfight


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008]
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Mr PotatoHead] #3199137
12/21/23 02:19 PM
12/21/23 02:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 9,454
Super Spudsville
Mr PotatoHead Online rolleyes
Half Baked
Mr PotatoHead  Online Rolleyes
Half Baked

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 9,454
Super Spudsville
You decide....



STOP POTATO HATE!
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Mr PotatoHead] #3199180
12/21/23 04:55 PM
12/21/23 04:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,758
Windsor, ON, Canada
D
Diplomat360 Offline
top fuel
Diplomat360  Offline
top fuel
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,758
Windsor, ON, Canada
Interesting...the prior reading I've done on this topic was focused on preventing the fuel, once it began falling out from the air stream from actually settling down on the port walls. Idea here being that those vortices would 'shake' the droplets back up into the airstream before they ever got a chance to come in contact with the port wall.

Ultimately the goal there was to keep the fuel in suspension and therefore make more of it available for efficient burn in the chamber, thus producing more power.

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Diplomat360] #3199187
12/21/23 05:21 PM
12/21/23 05:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,916
A shed in England
Tig Online work OP
master
Tig  Online Work OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,916
A shed in England
Originally Posted by Diplomat360
Interesting...the prior reading I've done on this topic was focused on preventing the fuel, once it began falling out from the air stream from actually settling down on the port walls. Idea here being that those vortices would 'shake' the droplets back up into the airstream before they ever got a chance to come in contact with the port wall.

Ultimately the goal there was to keep the fuel in suspension and therefore make more of it available for efficient burn in the chamber, thus producing more power.


Good point, flow numbers may not tell the whole story. I'm guessing no-one has any non-dimpled v's dimpled dyno numbers or track results ? grin


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Mr PotatoHead] #3199194
12/21/23 05:42 PM
12/21/23 05:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
3
360view Offline
Moparts resident spammer
360view  Offline
Moparts resident spammer
3

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
I am not sure if Larry Widmer’s forum posts are still on the web, but he did a much better job of describing how a small number of exactly spaced dimples can improve airflow.

Larry Widmer’s dad was an aerodynamic engineer justly famous for his contributions to the F-16 design.

This article describes how a dimple just past mid chord on the upper side of a wing improves flow.

http://www.journals.theired.org/assets/pdf/20151019_064614.pdf

Why do golf balls benefit from all around dimples?

A round ball is a terrible, terrible, terrible shape for an airplane wing.

Dimples all around make the golf ball a slightly less terrible wing shape - but only if the spin of the golf ball is correct to create up lift.

If the spin is wrong the dimples actually make the golf ball go right, left, or “down lift” into the grass faster.

Bumps most times work better than dimples.

Bird wings have bumps and notches rather than dimples.

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: 360view] #3199198
12/21/23 06:12 PM
12/21/23 06:12 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,980
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
top fuel
B1MAXX  Offline
top fuel

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,980
Apollo, PA.
A moving ball is different than the stationary walls of a port. Increasing the boundary layer speeds up the velocity keeping the fuel suspended. Fuel drops out at a slowdown point. At least by my thinking.

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: B1MAXX] #3199217
12/21/23 07:22 PM
12/21/23 07:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
Let me try again SNAKE OIL.....


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Al_Alguire] #3199268
12/21/23 10:04 PM
12/21/23 10:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,126
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
super stock
Brad_Haak  Offline
super stock

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,126
Loudoun County, VA
Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
Let me try again SNAKE OIL.....

which is why I find it interesting that BES offers (offered?) the dimpling as an add-on upgrade for certain CNC programs


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008]
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: gregsdart] #3199304
12/22/23 12:55 AM
12/22/23 12:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,805
Arlington, Texas
B
bobby66 Offline
master
bobby66  Offline
master
B

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,805
Arlington, Texas
Originally Posted by gregsdart
Simular to golfball airflow techknowlogy?


Yep..... work

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Brad_Haak] #3199395
12/22/23 12:28 PM
12/22/23 12:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
Originally Posted by Brad_Haak
Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
Let me try again SNAKE OIL.....

which is why I find it interesting that BES offers (offered?) the dimpling as an add-on upgrade for certain CNC programs


I can guarantee you if there was something there EVERY Comp car and PS team out there would be doing it. We work with one of the most prominent head porters in the country on our stuff and he does a LOT of comp stuff. He said they tried it years ago and it was worth nothing. I tend to believe him more than the internets. Having spent alot of time around top comp teams and very good friends with a person who has built some of the fastest comp stuff out there I can tell you without a doubt its not used by the top teams.

I would not be surprised that BES offers it. Possibly to appease those who insist. We race with alot of folks who run BES stuff and none of them use it


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Al_Alguire] #3199400
12/22/23 12:41 PM
12/22/23 12:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,126
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
super stock
Brad_Haak  Offline
super stock

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,126
Loudoun County, VA
Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
Originally Posted by Brad_Haak
Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
Let me try again SNAKE OIL.....

which is why I find it interesting that BES offers (offered?) the dimpling as an add-on upgrade for certain CNC programs


I can guarantee you if there was something there EVERY Comp car and PS team out there would be doing it. We work with one of the most prominent head porters in the country on our stuff and he does a LOT of comp stuff. He said they tried it years ago and it was worth nothing. I tend to believe him more than the internets. Having spent alot of time around top comp teams and very good friends with a person who has built some of the fastest comp stuff out there I can tell you without a doubt its not used by the top teams.

I would not be surprised that BES offers it. Possibly to appease those who insist. We race with alot of folks who run BES stuff and none of them use it

Not surprised... at all

Even Chad Speier as a big proponent of the burr finish technique has stated it's not always appropriate for the application; I think that applies pretty much to all of this stuff

Last edited by Brad_Haak; 12/22/23 12:43 PM.

2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008]
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Brad_Haak] #3199630
12/23/23 01:44 PM
12/23/23 01:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,871
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
S

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,871
Ontario, Canada
"Builds up the boundary layer, makes the port "smaller" is my take."

No. The principle is the same as "vortex generators", the point being to keep airflow against the surfaces - ideally making use of the full port volume, not decreasing it.

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Stanton] #3199667
12/23/23 04:16 PM
12/23/23 04:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 126
Oregon
J
Jamie McGrath Offline
member
Jamie McGrath  Offline
member
J

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 126
Oregon

I’ve seen some very tight golf balling of front straps of 1911’s by a well known gun smith, but I have always wondered it one were too golf ball nearly all the pendulum of a Tunnel Ram/Rat Roaster/STR up too about 1/4in where the port entry is, if that wouldn’t aid port velocity and enhance the fuels atomization and distribution?

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Stanton] #3199868
12/24/23 04:31 PM
12/24/23 04:31 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,980
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
top fuel
B1MAXX  Offline
top fuel

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,980
Apollo, PA.
Originally Posted by Stanton
"Builds up the boundary layer, makes the port "smaller" is my take."

No. The principle is the same as "vortex generators", the point being to keep airflow against the surfaces - ideally making use of the full port volume, not decreasing it.


The way I see it....
I can see it helping to grab and turn it though over the short side but that theory didn't work for me when I tried it once.

Untitled.png
Last edited by B1MAXX; 12/24/23 04:32 PM.
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: B1MAXX] #3201762
01/02/24 05:59 PM
01/02/24 05:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,510
Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda Offline
master
340Cuda  Offline
master

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,510
Tulsa, Oklahoma
This may not be related at all but I thought of this thread when a saw a rule change today for NHRA Pro Stock engines:

"Surface of plenum area must remain smooth"

https://www.nhraracer.com/content/general.asp?articleid=72922&zoneid=132

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: 340Cuda] #3201778
01/02/24 07:39 PM
01/02/24 07:39 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,821
South Bend
John Brown Offline
top fuel
John Brown  Offline
top fuel

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,821
South Bend
Originally Posted by 340Cuda
This may not be related at all but I thought of this thread when a saw a rule change today for NHRA Pro Stock engines:

"Surface of plenum area must remain smooth"

https://www.nhraracer.com/content/general.asp?articleid=72922&zoneid=132


NHRA always a party pooper. Making rules where no rules were needed. Make a basic framework of rules, and then let then inovate.


July 19th should be "Drive Like Rockford Day". R.I.P. Jimmie.
Page 1 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1