Anyone tried this ?
#3199082
12/21/23 11:28 AM
12/21/23 11:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,916 A shed in England
Tig
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OP
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Anyone ever tired this ? Does it actually work ? What were the flow numbers before and after ? TIA
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials. 9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge. RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: Anyone tried this ?
[Re: gregsdart]
#3199095
12/21/23 12:46 PM
12/21/23 12:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Las Vegas
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The term snake oil can be inserted here.....Its been around for a couple decades now
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Anyone tried this ?
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3199114
12/21/23 01:46 PM
12/21/23 01:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,916 A shed in England
Tig
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Just wondering is all, there was quite a debate on faceache with both sides of the argument but no conclusive proof either way. Seems like the import guys are the majority of the "yays". My take is if it did work, it would be available as an CNC option on every decent cylinder head available.
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials. 9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge. RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: Anyone tried this ?
[Re: 340Cuda]
#3199131
12/21/23 02:12 PM
12/21/23 02:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,126 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,126
Loudoun County, VA
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Dimples, riblets ("shark skin"), burr finish... all forms of port surface finishing that some have claimed show improvements and others have doubted vociferously
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: Anyone tried this ?
[Re: Diplomat360]
#3199187
12/21/23 05:21 PM
12/21/23 05:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,916 A shed in England
Tig
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OP
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Interesting...the prior reading I've done on this topic was focused on preventing the fuel, once it began falling out from the air stream from actually settling down on the port walls. Idea here being that those vortices would 'shake' the droplets back up into the airstream before they ever got a chance to come in contact with the port wall.
Ultimately the goal there was to keep the fuel in suspension and therefore make more of it available for efficient burn in the chamber, thus producing more power. Good point, flow numbers may not tell the whole story. I'm guessing no-one has any non-dimpled v's dimpled dyno numbers or track results ?
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials. 9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge. RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: Anyone tried this ?
[Re: Mr PotatoHead]
#3199194
12/21/23 05:42 PM
12/21/23 05:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162 USA
360view
Moparts resident spammer
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Moparts resident spammer
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
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I am not sure if Larry Widmer’s forum posts are still on the web, but he did a much better job of describing how a small number of exactly spaced dimples can improve airflow. Larry Widmer’s dad was an aerodynamic engineer justly famous for his contributions to the F-16 design. This article describes how a dimple just past mid chord on the upper side of a wing improves flow. http://www.journals.theired.org/assets/pdf/20151019_064614.pdfWhy do golf balls benefit from all around dimples? A round ball is a terrible, terrible, terrible shape for an airplane wing. Dimples all around make the golf ball a slightly less terrible wing shape - but only if the spin of the golf ball is correct to create up lift. If the spin is wrong the dimples actually make the golf ball go right, left, or “down lift” into the grass faster. Bumps most times work better than dimples. Bird wings have bumps and notches rather than dimples.
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Re: Anyone tried this ?
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3199217
12/21/23 07:22 PM
12/21/23 07:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Las Vegas
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Let me try again SNAKE OIL.....
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Anyone tried this ?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#3199268
12/21/23 10:04 PM
12/21/23 10:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,126 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
super stock
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super stock
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Loudoun County, VA
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Let me try again SNAKE OIL..... which is why I find it interesting that BES offers (offered?) the dimpling as an add-on upgrade for certain CNC programs
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: Anyone tried this ?
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3199395
12/22/23 12:28 PM
12/22/23 12:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
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Let me try again SNAKE OIL..... which is why I find it interesting that BES offers (offered?) the dimpling as an add-on upgrade for certain CNC programs I can guarantee you if there was something there EVERY Comp car and PS team out there would be doing it. We work with one of the most prominent head porters in the country on our stuff and he does a LOT of comp stuff. He said they tried it years ago and it was worth nothing. I tend to believe him more than the internets. Having spent alot of time around top comp teams and very good friends with a person who has built some of the fastest comp stuff out there I can tell you without a doubt its not used by the top teams. I would not be surprised that BES offers it. Possibly to appease those who insist. We race with alot of folks who run BES stuff and none of them use it
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Anyone tried this ?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#3199400
12/22/23 12:41 PM
12/22/23 12:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,126 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,126
Loudoun County, VA
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Let me try again SNAKE OIL..... which is why I find it interesting that BES offers (offered?) the dimpling as an add-on upgrade for certain CNC programs I can guarantee you if there was something there EVERY Comp car and PS team out there would be doing it. We work with one of the most prominent head porters in the country on our stuff and he does a LOT of comp stuff. He said they tried it years ago and it was worth nothing. I tend to believe him more than the internets. Having spent alot of time around top comp teams and very good friends with a person who has built some of the fastest comp stuff out there I can tell you without a doubt its not used by the top teams. I would not be surprised that BES offers it. Possibly to appease those who insist. We race with alot of folks who run BES stuff and none of them use it Not surprised... at all Even Chad Speier as a big proponent of the burr finish technique has stated it's not always appropriate for the application; I think that applies pretty much to all of this stuff
Last edited by Brad_Haak; 12/22/23 12:43 PM.
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: Anyone tried this ?
[Re: Stanton]
#3199868
12/24/23 04:31 PM
12/24/23 04:31 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,980 Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,980
Apollo, PA.
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"Builds up the boundary layer, makes the port "smaller" is my take."
No. The principle is the same as "vortex generators", the point being to keep airflow against the surfaces - ideally making use of the full port volume, not decreasing it. The way I see it.... I can see it helping to grab and turn it though over the short side but that theory didn't work for me when I tried it once.
Last edited by B1MAXX; 12/24/23 04:32 PM.
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Re: Anyone tried this ?
[Re: 340Cuda]
#3201778
01/02/24 07:39 PM
01/02/24 07:39 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,821 South Bend
John Brown
top fuel
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top fuel
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Posts: 1,821
South Bend
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NHRA always a party pooper. Making rules where no rules were needed. Make a basic framework of rules, and then let then inovate.
July 19th should be "Drive Like Rockford Day". R.I.P. Jimmie.
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