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Anyone tried this ? #3199082
12/21/23 11:28 AM
12/21/23 11:28 AM
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A shed in England
Tig Offline OP
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Anyone ever tired this ? Does it actually work ? What were the flow numbers before and after ? TIA up

[Linked Image]


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Tig] #3199086
12/21/23 11:58 AM
12/21/23 11:58 AM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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That would have taken some time to program !!!

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Stanton] #3199092
12/21/23 12:30 PM
12/21/23 12:30 PM
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Michigan
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A727Tflite Online content
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Saw this on some Glidden stuff way back. Piston domes too.

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: A727Tflite] #3199094
12/21/23 12:40 PM
12/21/23 12:40 PM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Simular to golfball airflow techknowlogy?


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: gregsdart] #3199095
12/21/23 12:46 PM
12/21/23 12:46 PM
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Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
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The term snake oil can be inserted here.....Its been around for a couple decades now


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Al_Alguire] #3199101
12/21/23 12:54 PM
12/21/23 12:54 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,979
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
top fuel
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Builds up the boundary layer, makes the port "smaller" is my take.

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: B1MAXX] #3199114
12/21/23 01:46 PM
12/21/23 01:46 PM
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A shed in England
Tig Offline OP
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Just wondering is all, there was quite a debate on faceache with both sides of the argument but no conclusive proof either way. Seems like the import guys are the majority of the "yays".
My take is if it did work, it would be available as an CNC option on every decent cylinder head available. shruggy


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Tig] #3199127
12/21/23 02:05 PM
12/21/23 02:05 PM
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Tulsa, Oklahoma
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The late Jim McFarland was a proponent of this. I respected Mr. McFarland a lot but there sure has not been wide spread adoption of the dimples.

Mythbusters did something like this on a whole car and I think in their opinion he made the car more aerodynamic.

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: 340Cuda] #3199131
12/21/23 02:12 PM
12/21/23 02:12 PM
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Posts: 1,126
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
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Dimples, riblets ("shark skin"), burr finish... all forms of port surface finishing that some have claimed show improvements and others have doubted vociferously catfight


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008]
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Mr PotatoHead] #3199137
12/21/23 02:19 PM
12/21/23 02:19 PM
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Posts: 9,454
Super Spudsville
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You decide....



STOP POTATO HATE!
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Mr PotatoHead] #3199180
12/21/23 04:55 PM
12/21/23 04:55 PM
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Windsor, ON, Canada
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Diplomat360 Offline
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Interesting...the prior reading I've done on this topic was focused on preventing the fuel, once it began falling out from the air stream from actually settling down on the port walls. Idea here being that those vortices would 'shake' the droplets back up into the airstream before they ever got a chance to come in contact with the port wall.

Ultimately the goal there was to keep the fuel in suspension and therefore make more of it available for efficient burn in the chamber, thus producing more power.

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Diplomat360] #3199187
12/21/23 05:21 PM
12/21/23 05:21 PM
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A shed in England
Tig Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Diplomat360
Interesting...the prior reading I've done on this topic was focused on preventing the fuel, once it began falling out from the air stream from actually settling down on the port walls. Idea here being that those vortices would 'shake' the droplets back up into the airstream before they ever got a chance to come in contact with the port wall.

Ultimately the goal there was to keep the fuel in suspension and therefore make more of it available for efficient burn in the chamber, thus producing more power.


Good point, flow numbers may not tell the whole story. I'm guessing no-one has any non-dimpled v's dimpled dyno numbers or track results ? grin


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Mr PotatoHead] #3199194
12/21/23 05:42 PM
12/21/23 05:42 PM
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Posts: 8,162
USA
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360view Offline
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I am not sure if Larry Widmer’s forum posts are still on the web, but he did a much better job of describing how a small number of exactly spaced dimples can improve airflow.

Larry Widmer’s dad was an aerodynamic engineer justly famous for his contributions to the F-16 design.

This article describes how a dimple just past mid chord on the upper side of a wing improves flow.

http://www.journals.theired.org/assets/pdf/20151019_064614.pdf

Why do golf balls benefit from all around dimples?

A round ball is a terrible, terrible, terrible shape for an airplane wing.

Dimples all around make the golf ball a slightly less terrible wing shape - but only if the spin of the golf ball is correct to create up lift.

If the spin is wrong the dimples actually make the golf ball go right, left, or “down lift” into the grass faster.

Bumps most times work better than dimples.

Bird wings have bumps and notches rather than dimples.

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: 360view] #3199198
12/21/23 06:12 PM
12/21/23 06:12 PM
Joined: May 2005
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Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
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A moving ball is different than the stationary walls of a port. Increasing the boundary layer speeds up the velocity keeping the fuel suspended. Fuel drops out at a slowdown point. At least by my thinking.

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: B1MAXX] #3199217
12/21/23 07:22 PM
12/21/23 07:22 PM
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Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
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Let me try again SNAKE OIL.....


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Al_Alguire] #3199268
12/21/23 10:04 PM
12/21/23 10:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
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Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
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Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
Let me try again SNAKE OIL.....

which is why I find it interesting that BES offers (offered?) the dimpling as an add-on upgrade for certain CNC programs


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008]
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: gregsdart] #3199304
12/22/23 12:55 AM
12/22/23 12:55 AM
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Arlington, Texas
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bobby66 Offline
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Originally Posted by gregsdart
Simular to golfball airflow techknowlogy?


Yep..... work

Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Brad_Haak] #3199395
12/22/23 12:28 PM
12/22/23 12:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
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Originally Posted by Brad_Haak
Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
Let me try again SNAKE OIL.....

which is why I find it interesting that BES offers (offered?) the dimpling as an add-on upgrade for certain CNC programs


I can guarantee you if there was something there EVERY Comp car and PS team out there would be doing it. We work with one of the most prominent head porters in the country on our stuff and he does a LOT of comp stuff. He said they tried it years ago and it was worth nothing. I tend to believe him more than the internets. Having spent alot of time around top comp teams and very good friends with a person who has built some of the fastest comp stuff out there I can tell you without a doubt its not used by the top teams.

I would not be surprised that BES offers it. Possibly to appease those who insist. We race with alot of folks who run BES stuff and none of them use it


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Al_Alguire] #3199400
12/22/23 12:41 PM
12/22/23 12:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,126
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
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Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
Originally Posted by Brad_Haak
Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
Let me try again SNAKE OIL.....

which is why I find it interesting that BES offers (offered?) the dimpling as an add-on upgrade for certain CNC programs


I can guarantee you if there was something there EVERY Comp car and PS team out there would be doing it. We work with one of the most prominent head porters in the country on our stuff and he does a LOT of comp stuff. He said they tried it years ago and it was worth nothing. I tend to believe him more than the internets. Having spent alot of time around top comp teams and very good friends with a person who has built some of the fastest comp stuff out there I can tell you without a doubt its not used by the top teams.

I would not be surprised that BES offers it. Possibly to appease those who insist. We race with alot of folks who run BES stuff and none of them use it

Not surprised... at all

Even Chad Speier as a big proponent of the burr finish technique has stated it's not always appropriate for the application; I think that applies pretty much to all of this stuff

Last edited by Brad_Haak; 12/22/23 12:43 PM.

2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008]
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: Anyone tried this ? [Re: Brad_Haak] #3199630
12/23/23 01:44 PM
12/23/23 01:44 PM
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Posts: 8,871
Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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"Builds up the boundary layer, makes the port "smaller" is my take."

No. The principle is the same as "vortex generators", the point being to keep airflow against the surfaces - ideally making use of the full port volume, not decreasing it.

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