I have a '38 2dr sedan that I have been thinking about building into a 50's style rod (not a rat rod). Honestly, I would much rather have a 1920-34 model car, but oh well. I'm not really going for a period correct looking car, so I plan on running a modern drivetrain. I think I read somewhere that you can use a Dakota frame for this. Am I correct? If so, which frame do I need to look for? What year(s)?... standard cab or extended cab?... long bed or short bed? And another question, what modifications will need to be made to the frame or body during this swap. Thanks for your help.

Justin
"CornDog"

IF ..that was my car , I'd not change/swap the frame


Tell me the ultimate goal for the car ..

why do you want to swap the frame, etc
how do you want it to look at the end etc to advise the project


IMO the undercarriage of that car just needs some basic updates

I have a '38 2dr sedan that I have been thinking about building into a 50's style rod

ps .. they did not have Dakotas in the 50's

if frame is solid it might be easier to weld a volare or mustang II front end to it I used a drive train and front end from a 82 dodge mirada i had,for my 38 dodge truck, and in rear kept trucks leaf springs and just put rear end in from the mirada

It all depends on the skill level of the person, the tools he owns , the place he has to work on it ..

If you don't own welders,saws, air tools,etc ..

If you don't have a place to work on it for several weeks while its torn to pieces ...

If you have never done a project like this...

If the answers to any of the above is no ...


Doing one for the 1st time will be a challenge
When they are torn apart you need twice the space as when they are together ..


The frames on that era car are in general nice , soild foundations to work off of ..

On my Desoto ..I put on a M2 from www.jimweimerrodgarage.com and a tri-4 bar rear from the same place

You can purchase front suspension from a number of suppliers

As for all of the questions above... lets see... I own an $10,000 tool box and it is full of about $10,000 worth of tools... so "yes".

I do not have a shop of my own at this minute, but I'm building one this summer. I work in a body shop so I could either use it or go to my friend's place down the road... he has plenty of space. But like I said earlier... I do not plan on getting started on this project right now... so I'll probably have a shop by then... so "yes"

I have done stuff harder than this. I do body work for a living in one of Fortune 500's top 100 body shops in America. I have cut cars in half and put them back together only for that same car to get t-boned two months later and hold up just fine... so "yes"

I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just asking a simple question about a frame. I'm VERY familiar with tearing cars down completely to nothing and building them back without a problem. I've resotred many cars too. Chopping a top, sectioning a body, or doing whatever I can imagine to it does not scare me at all.... but back to my original question..... what frame will fit nicely under my car?

Justin
"CornDog"

Sounds like you are all set then ..

Not trying to be a male member either, but if you are that well versed in auto body and repair, you know that the ONLY frame that fits under a late 30's mopar is a late 30's mopar. The guys that got a clean sheet of paper in the early 80's to design a new mid-size truck did not try to make a frame that would fit under a car built 50 years prior.
That said, the Dakota is fairly close, and someone with your ability should be able to do what's needed to make it work. There really isn't any other Mopar frame that has the track width, engine/trans placement and flat midsection it does.

If you look at the frame under the 38, you will see that it doesn't really need boxing like the same era Fords, unless you are going to install a 500+ HP motor and drag race it. Take a look at the other threads here and you will see some others asking the same questions, and some answers. Unfortunately, no one has documented the whole process yet, which would be great for everyone. I hope that you can get your shop built and get started on this project. It would be really great if you could take pictures, write up the process and document how to do this; it comes up a lot!

What he said.

Some 38 Dodge cars had independent front suspension, some had the tube axle, seems one was an option? Which suspension does you car have?

I've had a 39 Plymouth body (nearly the same frame as your 38 Dodge) off the frame and it sat along side of an early 90s Dakota bare frame. From the rear of the Dakota's rear cab mounts, the truck frame is very different from the 39 Plymouth frame. The truck frame has a kick up and support members to hold the pickup box that would have to be modified to fit under the sedan. The Dakota frame also has kickouted front frame horns that would interfere with the sedan fenders, though those are easily removed. The Dakota frame is straight between the wheels where the car frame curves outward to about the center post between the doors, then back in to the front leaf spring mounts. The Dakota frame will likely either have to be shortened or lengthened as 117" wb or 133" wb was all that was available, neither wb likely matchs your 38. The Dakota frame and the 39 frame are the same width and height off the ground at the point of the sedans firewall and are a convenent location to splice the two frames. The X member is easily delt with during the clipping. You would have to fab up a radiator support, which is also the front fender support on the 30s cars.

The Dakota you seek would be the 1st generation, 87-90 because they have the 5 on 4 1/2" wheel bolt pattern. 2nd choice would be 91-95 because even with them being 6 bolt wheels, the older rotors and rear axles simply swap on/in. After 95 the old rotors and axles don't easily swap.

If you have independent suspension on your 38 Dodge, disc brake conversions and rack & pinoin steering setups are available as are front end rebuild parts. The independent suspension used on the late 30s Mopars were a well designed fairly modern system that, with a few tweeks, works well on todays roads.

Like said earlier, unless you plan on 500+ hp, the 38 frame will hold up well, provided its in good shape and not bent or rotted out.

As far as your equipment and abilities, we have no way of knowing. We usually begin at the point of questioning where your at, so we don't lead you astray. It was not in any means ment to short change you, simply to determine where your at. Gene

Quote:

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you know that the ONLY frame that fits under a late 30's mopar is a late 30's mopar.

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John, does this apply to the trucks too?. Am I better off using what I have on my 37?

Most of the 30s cars and trucks have the engine sitting behind the front axle. The Dakota engine sits on top of the front crossmember where the suspension attaches. In most cases, using a Dakota frame under any 30s ride will result in moving the engine rearward and fabing motor mounts on the frame so everything fits. The Dakota frame horns will likely sit outside your 30s grill shell, you will likely end up cutting them off and making new horns to support your rides radiator structure so your fenders and such are properly mounted. The Dakota rad is not going to fit in a 30s grill shell unless you modify it to stand on end, Dakotas are short in hight and wide, 30s stuff has a tall rad that is very narrow. You will also probably want to modify your 30s firewall to accomidate the master/booster and to locate the steering column, the Dakota firewall is not easily going to attach to your body, by the time you get it cut up to fit, you probably could have modified yours easier. The Dakota rack has a "double D" column connection and aftermarket columns and steering componets are easily available. I think the Dakota steering wheels are ugly.

As you see, even one of the better frame swaps is not done without some fabrication skills. If your frame is still in good shape, most times your even or ahead of the game just updating your frame, both in time and money spent. Those of us that have been through this process a few times tend to say some things are easy because we forget what it was like the first time. If it was really easy, everyone would be doing it. Everyone is not doing it, fact is, most people are not doing it. Leads one to the conclusion it must not be easy. There are enough people doing it that at least you know it is doable. Gene

The 38 frame is a decent foundation. It already fits your body so that's a plus.

A new front suspension would make it ride better, unless you like a dump truck's ride. If you Dodge is anything like my 38 Plymouth, then a later axle will bolt in. I used a 9 1/4 from a 79 Newport.

things get a bit tight under the driver's side floor board, especially if you want to keep it a stick with the M/C in the stock location and run an exhaust pipe thru there.