Oiling Issue - Won’t Hold Prime
#3179381
09/29/23 05:38 PM
09/29/23 05:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553 Kentucky
clovis
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After finally getting everything together and getting it on the run stand, I'm not able to get oil pressure from just spinning it over with the starter. I have included two videos, one spinning it over with just the starter and one using a drill on the pump. It basically shows it takes quite bit of speed and time to get things started. I am using a Milodon pan, pickup, pump and a Meiling pump cover-all new stuff. The videos are after three days of sitting. The line from the pan to pump has a curve to it, where it is higher than the pump for several inches. I didn't take the time to measure the pump, but after this I guess that is my next step. I looked through several threads and this does seem to be a common issue, it just seemed there was no single bullet-line routing, oil filter drainback, pump drainback, air leak, etc. I didn't plug the internal pickup, as the Milodon pump is solid where that hole is thus it shouldn't allow any air flow. https://youtu.be/Os7D8fHTSQg?feature=sharedhttps://youtu.be/epGIRQvukyM?feature=sharedThe oil pressure gauge is sitting in the middle of instrument panel, you can zoom in on it.
'75 Plymouth Duster Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126 Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135 Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Oiling Issue - Won’t Hold Prime
[Re: scottk]
#3179397
09/29/23 06:38 PM
09/29/23 06:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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Just a thought……… If the anti-drain back valve in the filter leaked a little, would it exacerbate the losing prime situation?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Oiling Issue - Won’t Hold Prime
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#3179443
09/29/23 09:48 PM
09/29/23 09:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553 Kentucky
clovis
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Even when I hit the drill full tilt it will take 4-5 seconds for it start picking up oil.
Anyone have a link or picture they are using for a check valve?
'75 Plymouth Duster Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126 Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135 Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Oiling Issue - Won’t Hold Prime
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3179494
09/30/23 06:58 AM
09/30/23 06:58 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553 Kentucky
clovis
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I think I remember reading in the instructions for the pump that said you have to use the included larger o-ring and not a standard one.
Would the motor being tilted forward make a difference? I have my back legs on the run stand a little high right now so the engine actually tilts forward a bit, which in mind should help prevent draining the line.
Cab-do you have any pictures of your homemade gaskets? What material are you using to make them?
I don’t mind making gaskets, I actually made some .015 intake gaskets for this motor-the Fel-pro material is like $6.00 on Amazon.
At this point I am going to pull the line off the pump to see if I have oil in the line. How much oil should be there? Is it a go-no go situation, where if there is any oil there, then it has to be an air leak situation with the pump?
I have a brand new meiling high volume pump sitting on the shelf, so I would be tempted to bolt it on and give it a try. My only issue there is that the Milodon pump cover (top port) interferes with my Schumaker mounts, which is why I bought the Milodon pump and shaft to start with, plus I hate the idea of having bought $600 of oil pump only to not have it work ($400 pump/$200 shaft).
'75 Plymouth Duster Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126 Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135 Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Oiling Issue - Won’t Hold Prime
[Re: clovis]
#3179518
09/30/23 09:35 AM
09/30/23 09:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,741 North Dakota
6PakBee
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I have no, repeat NO, experience with remote pickups. But the way you have the suction hose with the loop at the top, is there any way you could route the hose with the loop at the bottom? When I did piping design I always tried to eliminate a high point on a pump suction as it takes a lot of flow to eliminate the air pocket at the top. If this is a stupid comment just ignore it.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Oiling Issue - Won’t Hold Prime
[Re: clovis]
#3179523
09/30/23 09:39 AM
09/30/23 09:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 657 Berlin NJ
scottk
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Even when I hit the drill full tilt it will take 4-5 seconds for it start picking up oil.
Anyone have a link or picture they are using for a check valve? Sorry no pics. Plumb this in down near the pan and it will solve your problems. Just be sure to install it in the right direction. At least it worked for me. https://www.amazon.com/Eastman-Brass-Swing-Check-20425LF/dp/B00GZ3H5JA/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=swing%2Bcheck%2Bvalve&qid=1696080923&sr=8-3&th=1
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Re: Oiling Issue - Won’t Hold Prime
[Re: clovis]
#3179527
09/30/23 09:47 AM
09/30/23 09:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,666 Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
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What Milodon pump number is that? Most have this note: NOTE: This pump does not use stock Chrysler O-ring around gear set. Special supplied O-ring must be used, also available in system rebuild kit #21590. I don't know if that is the problem.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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Re: Oiling Issue - Won’t Hold Prime
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#3179582
09/30/23 02:04 PM
09/30/23 02:04 PM
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clovis
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Quick update:
Pulled the line and there was very very little run out. I pulled the pump and it was extremely easy to pull out of the block. It looks like I used the stock o-ring on the snout, so I used a larger o-ring and made a full gasket to go between the block and pump. I primed it and will try turning it over with the starter tomorrow. If no go, then I will put a Baldwin filter on and it try again. I will likely go ahead and get the check valve.
Thanks for all the help.
'75 Plymouth Duster Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126 Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135 Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Oiling Issue - Won’t Hold Prime
[Re: clovis]
#3179816
10/01/23 10:05 AM
10/01/23 10:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 657 Berlin NJ
scottk
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Quick update:
Pulled the line and there was very very little run out. I pulled the pump and it was extremely easy to pull out of the block. It looks like I used the stock o-ring on the snout, so I used a larger o-ring and made a full gasket to go between the block and pump. I primed it and will try turning it over with the starter tomorrow. If no go, then I will put a Baldwin filter on and it try again. I will likely go ahead and get the check valve.
Thanks for all the help. If you do that make sure you mount it horizontal with the hinge for the flap up top.
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Re: Oiling Issue - Won’t Hold Prime
[Re: scottk]
#3179822
10/01/23 10:29 AM
10/01/23 10:29 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,516 PA
moparacer
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I have always had this problem with my single line setup. Both static and swinging pickups. Had the line above the pump, below it. Run a 51515R wix filter with a drainback. No difference.
I have an accumulator so I never worried about dry starts but when I change oil I have to pull the distributor and spin it at high speed and it still takes a bit to pick the oil up.
I need to go through it next oil change and check some things mentioned here. Because priming it every oil change is a PITA.
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119 68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152 414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: Oiling Issue - Won’t Hold Prime
[Re: 8urvette]
#3180003
10/01/23 08:17 PM
10/01/23 08:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553 Kentucky
clovis
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Put the drill to it this afternoon and ran it pretty slow, I had pressure within 2-3 seconds running it slow. I went ahead and traded out the filter to a Baldwin, primed it again and will let it sit another day and try again.
What is the trick to getting the intermediate shaft in place? Seems like everytime to go install it, I spend 20 minutes slowing turning the oil pump shaft then dropping in the intermediate shaft only to find I am one tooth off one way or the other. It is like the intermediate shaft doesn’t engage the pump until the shaft is already engaged with the cam thus if the hex isn’t lined up it will not fall the rest of the way in.
'75 Plymouth Duster Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126 Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135 Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Oiling Issue - Won’t Hold Prime
[Re: clovis]
#3180023
10/01/23 08:38 PM
10/01/23 08:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,863 MI, usa
dvw
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What is the trick to getting the intermediate shaft in place? Seems like everytime to go install it, I spend 20 minutes slowing turning the oil pump shaft then dropping in the intermediate shaft only to find I am one tooth off one way or the other. It is like the intermediate shaft doesn’t engage the pump until the shaft is already engaged with the cam thus if the hex isn’t lined up it will not fall the rest of the way in.
Drop the pump drive in. Then turn it backwards so it hops up on the cam teeth. Then back in the forward direction. go back and forth like this. It'll skip a few teeth then drop in. If it's still in the wrong position keep at it until it drops where you want it. Doug
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