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Yet another stolen car screwup #3175416
09/15/23 04:39 PM
09/15/23 04:39 PM
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A990 Offline OP
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How is the vin fraud stuff supposed to be prevented when the legal/DMV system mishandles things?

https://theautowire.com/articles/court-finds-alabama-authorities-improperly-seized-mans-camaro/

I've read this several times, and cannot figure out how the cops found the firewall in Alabama?

I just found a fox news article
https://www.fox10tv.com/2023/09/13/...fs-office-improperly-seized-mans-camaro/
The implications of this is really ominous.

Last edited by A990; 09/15/23 04:45 PM. Reason: More info
Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: A990] #3175422
09/15/23 05:01 PM
09/15/23 05:01 PM
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If I understand this correctly, the VIN used to register the car, the one on the title, was different than the one on the firewall? And based on this the cops seized the car? Somehow this doesn't bode well for used sheet metal on anything.


"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: 6PakBee] #3175428
09/15/23 05:23 PM
09/15/23 05:23 PM
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and now he has a car with a switched vin


5549 post on old board
Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: 6PakBee] #3175433
09/15/23 05:32 PM
09/15/23 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 6PakBee
If I understand this correctly, the VIN used to register the car, the one on the title, was different than the one on the firewall? And based on this the cops seized the car? Somehow this doesn't bode well for used sheet metal on anything.


So many questions. Is the Camaro in TN registered with the same vin too? Can a vin even be registered in mutiple states at the same time??

Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: A990] #3175439
09/15/23 05:44 PM
09/15/23 05:44 PM
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Here is a bit more...

https://abc17news.com/cnn-regional/...fs-office-improperly-seized-mans-camaro/

So the firewall vin came back from a stolen care. Statute for possession of stolen property ran out. Org. reporter of stolen car said not the same car and the firewall number was the only one off the right paperwork.

So could of even been a field car someone lifted for parts and got reported??? Who knows.


TO ME its just a good example of WHY cars with mixed numbers should always be avoided. DO NOT mess with sketchy car and even skip titles and LEO-s these days might not be fully in the loop on old cars that were patched together OR what to do when something does not match.


Last edited by Mr PotatoHead; 09/15/23 05:48 PM.

STOP POTATO HATE!
Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: Mr PotatoHead] #3175440
09/15/23 05:47 PM
09/15/23 05:47 PM
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That article is blocked for me.
Can you grab the text please?

Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: A990] #3175441
09/15/23 05:48 PM
09/15/23 05:48 PM
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The issue here is very simple and easy to learn, on cars of this past era, one confirmed VIN is not clear proof of a crime nor ownership, unless cognitive bias rules the process, and why we have or are supposed to have Judges who rise above sentiment at play, which seems we did here, less maybe $10K in lawyer's fees, unfortunately.

"you can beat the rap, but not the ride"


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: A990] #3175494
09/15/23 09:49 PM
09/15/23 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by A990
That article is blocked for me.
Can you grab the text please?


BAY MINETTE, Alabama (WALA) — This is the story of a Chevrolet Camaro. A very well-traveled 1968 Camaro.

Baldwin County resident Thomas Hadley, who has owned the vehicle since 2016, got a surprise visit from the Alabama Department of Revenue last month after the Vehicle Identification Number of a car registered in Tennessee matched the number on file for Hadley’s Camaro. The investigation uncovered records of a car reported stolen from Montgomery County, Kansas, two decades ago.

That set off a chain of events that led to the Baldwin County Sheriff’s Office seizing the vehicle last month and then a judge ordering it to be returned to Hadley. The vehicle by then, however, no longer in was Alabama.

By the time lawyer Scott Hunter went to court to try to stop the deputies from seizing the vehicle, deputies already were towing it away.

“Probably, we overlapped,” he told FOX10 News. “I was probably at the courthouse as it was being trailered.”

Hadley, whose son is a lawyer, initially refused to give his car to the Sheriff’s Office without a judge’s order. The son, meanwhile, told authorities he would keep the car in his garage until the matter could be sorted out. That’s when deputies obtained a search warrant for the son’s home.

After a hearing last week, Baldwin County Circuit Judge Clark Stankoski agreed the car had been “seized by extra-judicial action.” He ordered the Camaro returned. But by then, it was in the hands of the man who reported his car stolen in 2003.

Only, it’s not the same car, according to Hunter. Or at least, mostly not the same car.

Hunter said the VIN on Hadley’s car that matched the VIN on the stolen car report is only for one part on the firewall on his client’s vehicle. The Vehicle Identification Numbers that appear elsewhere on the Camaro are different.

“At worst, it’s part of this car that is from the car in Kansas,” he said.

Baldwin County District Attorney Robert Wilters, whose office represented the state, declined to comment.

Baldwin County Sheriff Hoss Mack told FOX10 News that multiple law enforcement agencies form three states conducted a weeks-long investigation.

“At the end of the investigation the vehicle was returned to its original owner in Kansas,” he said in a statement. “The Sheriff’s Office also recognizes the fact that the person who possessed the vehicle in Baldwin County sustained a loss as well. The Sheriff’s Office and District Attorney’s Office are currently reviewing the judge’s decision and may approach the court to request a reconsideration.”

Hunter said no one knows for sure how a piece of the Kansas man’s car ended up on his client’s vehicle.

“That car could have been, as everybody that watches movies knows about, chop shops, where cars are cut up; cars are stolen and then the parts are cut up. … It’s a very good chance that that’s what happened to that car in Kansas,” he said.

But Hunter said it is crystal-clear his client did nothing wrong. He produced a title that Hadley received when he purchased the car in 2016 from a Stapleton resident. That man had registered it in Baldwin County for several years before that.

That’s well beyond the five-year window for a receiving stolen property charge, Hunter said. And he said investigators who obtained the search warrant indicated they were looking for evidence of a crime.

“They were not conducting a criminal investigation,” he said. “They took it upon themselves to go take this car because they felt it was the right thing to do. But they did so without any legal authority.”

beer

Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: jcc] #3175496
09/15/23 09:51 PM
09/15/23 09:51 PM
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Car looks like a turd IMO twocents

Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: TJP] #3175519
09/16/23 12:13 AM
09/16/23 12:13 AM
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Thanks TJP.

If the Alabama owner registered his car with a firewall vin, instead of the dash vin this all makes sense. Why in the world would someone do that though?
After this mess, I'm sure glad Chrysler only stamped partial vins on the unibody.

Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: A990] #3175530
09/16/23 02:37 AM
09/16/23 02:37 AM
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Why are we allowing Chebby [censored] to be discussed on here, MODS? work grin shruggy stirthepot devil


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Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: Cab_Burge] #3175535
09/16/23 06:39 AM
09/16/23 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Why are we allowing Chebby [censored] to be discussed on here, MODS? work grin shruggy stirthepot devil


I would say this is relevant to all car brands. Say I’ve got a 70 Cuda that was hit in the front long ago. They did not get new sheet metal but went to the junk yard for parts. The old core support had a partial vin on it and the shop just welded it in. Now we’ve got a car with two different vins. That’s something to worry about now.

Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: Cab_Burge] #3175543
09/16/23 07:11 AM
09/16/23 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Why are we allowing Chebby [censored] to be discussed on here, MODS? work grin shruggy stirthepot devil


1st amendment.


Earning every penny of that moderator paycheck.

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Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: not_a_charger] #3175549
09/16/23 08:00 AM
09/16/23 08:00 AM
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Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: Dart 500] #3175563
09/16/23 09:23 AM
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Thats rather definitive, except it's still based only the unproven presumption that the firewall was not changed, as sound as that might seem.
He didn't expound on the legal hurdles here of the ramifications mentioned several times that the car is now "out of state".
Thanks for posting.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: jcc] #3175578
09/16/23 10:00 AM
09/16/23 10:00 AM
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And there's always the possibility of a factory screw up. What if the firewall stampings on 2 cars got mixed up on the assembly line? Could be easy enough for a worker to get distracted and forget which number went on which shell.

As Steve noted, what other numbers are on the car and do they match?


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Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: ruderunner] #3175584
09/16/23 10:22 AM
09/16/23 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ruderunner
And there's always the possibility of a factory screw up. What if the firewall stampings on 2 cars got mixed up on the assembly line? Could be easy enough for a worker to get distracted and forget which number went on which shell.

As Steve noted, what other numbers are on the car and do they match?

I was a service writer at a Ford dealer in the 1980's and we once received a Thunderbird from the factory with an incorrect VIN. It was a major project to correct. The zone rep was there with the replacement VIN tag, the dealership service manager was there, a glass guy was there (to pop and reinstall the windshield), a tech to do the work, a couple of witnesses, and a photographer to record the event.

Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: not_a_charger] #3175588
09/16/23 11:08 AM
09/16/23 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by not_a_charger
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Why are we allowing Chebby [censored] to be discussed on here, MODS? work grin shruggy stirthepot devil


1st amendment.


The 1st amendment does not apply to private web sites such as Moparts.
Otherwise, there would be no need for moderators.


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My life is none of your business.

Speech is free only if you agree with those in control.
Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: 340727dart] #3175589
09/16/23 11:23 AM
09/16/23 11:23 AM
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Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
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Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
I'm well aware of that. Cab, however, is not. He constantly complains about his 1st amendment rights being violated on Moparts, but then makes posts like the one above. wink


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Re: Yet another stolen car screwup [Re: Dart 500] #3175594
09/16/23 11:47 AM
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A990 Offline OP
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OK so I waded into 68 Camaro vin science.
It's super easy to construct a complete vin from just a partial stamping.

The Alabama car must be an absolute pieced together mess. Where did the dash vin plate come from?
My takeaway is don't mess with GM stuff.
I'm glad Chrysler used so many identifier digits for the vins, makes constructing on from the partial stamping extremely difficult.







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