Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
#31717
10/22/06 03:20 PM
10/22/06 03:20 PM
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Mopar72Man
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Friend of mine has a rebuilt 340, stock bottom end, x-heads, upgraded cam and what not. He has about 10,000street/some strip miles on it and it seems to have, what i would consider, low oil pressure. he is running 15w-40 with a little lucas stabilizer ( about 1/4 of a bottle) and cold cruise is 65psi cold idle is around 50 hot idle is 15 hot cruise is about 40 (~3,000rpm) and might get up to 50 if he runs it through the gears. is it just me, or is that kinda low for a 'low mile' mill, he is concerned? Crank was turned .010, had new rod bearings and half-grooved mains with a melling hi-volume pump. Nothing fancy, and the clearances and such were not checked at the time. Any suggestions? Maybe a quart of 20w-50 in the 15w-40 help keep it up?
72 Challenger - will be sublime, little 340 904, 8 3/4" - Under Construction
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: Mopar72Man]
#31718
10/22/06 03:27 PM
10/22/06 03:27 PM
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fastmark
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By any chance did he put a new MP front cam thrust plate on the motor. My bud did and it has a groove that oils the timing chain that is way to big and he had oil pressure like you stated. Changed it back to the stock one and it was fine. You can plug it with a oil galley plug as well. Correction, you plug the oil galley behind the plate on the drivers side.
Last edited by fastmark; 10/22/06 03:30 PM.
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: fastmark]
#31719
10/22/06 03:28 PM
10/22/06 03:28 PM
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Mopar72Man
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Quote:
By any chance did he put a new MP front cam thrust plate on the motor. My bud did and it has a groove that oils the timing chain that is way to big and he had oil pressure like you stated. Changed it back to the stock one and it was fine. You can plug it with a oil galley plug as well.
Nope, stock thrust plate with a summit racing timing chain.
Thanks
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: Mopar72Man]
#31720
10/22/06 03:31 PM
10/22/06 03:31 PM
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StealthWedge67
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Boy, wouldn't he be feeling better right now if he had checked his clearances while assembling the motor! 15psi is enough to keep the bearings happy at an idle. but the discrepancy between as little as 15 & as much as 50 sounds odd. Personally, I'd run it until I had to tear into it again, then next time around, double check all bearing clearances.
I'll be interested to hear others take on oil pressure fluxuation like this. Some may say it sounds fine. For what its worth, my 110,000 mile original 1966 383 bottom end assembly shows 40 psi at idle and about 43 at cruise with 10w-40.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: sleepyhead416]
#31722
10/22/06 05:10 PM
10/22/06 05:10 PM
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Quote:
I'd say make sure they put in the oil plug in by the dist drive.
if it was out, would it still hold those kind of pressures that it does when cold? he said it is definately in however.
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: sleepyhead416]
#31724
10/22/06 07:14 PM
10/22/06 07:14 PM
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It's too low. The only way to "know" is to pull it, pull the pan, and peak in there.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: Mopar72Man]
#31726
10/22/06 08:21 PM
10/22/06 08:21 PM
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HemiRick
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This is plenty of pressure.....10 lbs per 1000 rpm is all that's needed any more is wasted HP
Take care, Rick 68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: topside]
#31730
10/22/06 08:58 PM
10/22/06 08:58 PM
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Quote:
First thing I'd do is try another gauge; then cut the oil filter open and inspect the element for bearing material. Could be bearing clearances too large, oil being aerated, maybe the filter going into bypass. Sounds like the oil has to be cold (thicker) or the pump spun up to maintain oil pressure, which sounds like an internal (pressure) leak. It doesn't sound fatal, but it doesn't sound right, either; mine have always idled hot with at least 30PSI with a stock pump and regardless of mileage.
thanks for the reply. I think i have another gauge he can toss on there. Whats the best way to cut the filter open? Do we need the whole filter cutter tool, or can we just zip it in half and peek in there? Could it be possible the oil pump is bypassing itself or something wierd?
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: sixpaktoogo]
#31732
10/22/06 09:30 PM
10/22/06 09:30 PM
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Had the same problem years ago with a rebuilt 340. Ended up being that the engine had one factory oversized lifter bore! Check the front of your block to see if it is stamped with (I believe) a diamond. If so, you will need to bush which ever lifter bore(s) back to standard size inorder to use your lifters.
thanks, there were no symbol stampings on the block when he had it hot tanked before the rebuild.
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: HemiRick]
#31733
10/22/06 10:05 PM
10/22/06 10:05 PM
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I agree with Hemi Rick and Mopar Joe, 10 psi for every thousand min, get the lucas out, try another gauge to be sure, if you are still worried try a oil analysis. btw what oil pump is he using? and why use the diesel oil
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
#31734
10/22/06 10:14 PM
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I agree with Hemi Rick and Mopar Joe, 10 psi for every thousand min, get the lucas out, try another gauge to be sure, if you are still worried try a oil analysis. btw what oil pump is he using? and why use the diesel oil
thanks. it is a melling high volume as mentioned in the initial post. any many many people run diesel oil..it still has zinc (anti-scuff for our flat tappet cams) that most of todays motor oils now lack (since not many flat tappets runnin around and the rollers dont need it)..
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
#31736
10/22/06 10:17 PM
10/22/06 10:17 PM
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What oil filter are you using?
maybe somewhat related.
he's ran a wix/napa gold forever, the last time he changed it was on a sunday and the local napa was closed so he just grabbed a bosch. There is a bosch currently on there..
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: Mopar72Man]
#31737
10/22/06 10:20 PM
10/22/06 10:20 PM
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"Bosch This is yet another Champion Labs filter that is sold at AutoZone. I am not a big fan of Champion filters. They seem flimsy on the inside to me." http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: Mopar72Man]
#31739
10/22/06 10:54 PM
10/22/06 10:54 PM
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I'd heard that about alot of the newer oils especially with solid cams, I've always used valvoline Durablend and I've had no issues
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: Mopar72Man]
#31741
10/23/06 12:27 PM
10/23/06 12:27 PM
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Quote:
hot cruise is about 40 (~3,000rpm) and might get up to 50 if he runs it through the gears.
10PSI per thousand rpm is fine. but even on a street car, this is not enough for me. I hit 5K in my dump run pickup with my stock 400 on highway on ramps. Change the oil and filter first, get a hand help diagnostic gage too. If it changes at all in the wrong direction, I wouldnt hesitate to pull it.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: dogdays]
#31744
10/23/06 07:55 PM
10/23/06 07:55 PM
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I have read where Lucas can cause the oil to foam in the crankcase. air does not make a good lube. experiments can be seen at bobtheoilguy.com also claims Fram filters are junk. I lost 8-10lbs. using a Fram.
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: Mopar72Man]
#31746
01/06/07 12:09 PM
01/06/07 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Issue still remains, in re-reading this reply.
Quote:
First thing I'd do is try another gauge; then cut the oil filter open and inspect the element for bearing material. Could be bearing clearances too large, oil being aerated, maybe the filter going into bypass. Sounds like the oil has to be cold (thicker) or the pump spun up to maintain oil pressure, which sounds like an internal (pressure) leak. It doesn't sound fatal, but it doesn't sound right, either; mine have always idled hot with at least 30PSI with a stock pump and regardless of mileage.
i'm wondering why if when the motor was first fired. At idle it held about 30lbs hot. Not its dwindled down to 15.
Any other suggestions? Could a faulty pump/spring be the culprit? He has a oil idiot light for 15psi and a autometer gauge. light comes on and the gauge shows 15 at hot idle. so we dont think its the gauges fault. Anything else we can check besides pulling it apart? Its been through a couple oil changes with no change in pressure.
thanks.
If it changed pressure from when it first was run to now, then there is something wrong.
2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: CJK440]
#31747
01/06/07 12:12 PM
01/06/07 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Issue still remains, in re-reading this reply.
Quote:
First thing I'd do is try another gauge; then cut the oil filter open and inspect the element for bearing material. Could be bearing clearances too large, oil being aerated, maybe the filter going into bypass. Sounds like the oil has to be cold (thicker) or the pump spun up to maintain oil pressure, which sounds like an internal (pressure) leak. It doesn't sound fatal, but it doesn't sound right, either; mine have always idled hot with at least 30PSI with a stock pump and regardless of mileage.
i'm wondering why if when the motor was first fired. At idle it held about 30lbs hot. Not its dwindled down to 15.
Any other suggestions? Could a faulty pump/spring be the culprit? He has a oil idiot light for 15psi and a autometer gauge. light comes on and the gauge shows 15 at hot idle. so we dont think its the gauges fault. Anything else we can check besides pulling it apart? Its been through a couple oil changes with no change in pressure.
thanks.
If it changed pressure from when it first was run to now, then there is something wrong.
ok so how do we diagnose everything besides pulling it out and apart? meaning we hate to rip it out and find it was a worn pump drive or something. if also anyone could give us a breakdown of possibilites
72 Challenger - will be sublime, little 340 904, 8 3/4" - Under Construction
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: bonefish]
#31749
01/06/07 05:45 PM
01/06/07 05:45 PM
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The 340 currently in my car does the same thing. About 10-15 at idle when hot. If you step on it it can get all the way back up at 50, and get about 35-40 at cruise. Around 60 when its cold. Been this way for 6 years, still runs ok. Since the day i got it, it has been ticking like its got a wiped cam or lifter, and has this same oil pressure.
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: CJK440]
#31751
01/08/07 12:36 PM
01/08/07 12:36 PM
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The pump drive either works or it doesn't. If it doesn't, you find out about it in a hurry and drag the car home because the engine is locked up.
My '93 Sub has 244,000 miles. When I start it up cold, the oil pressure will be about 35 psi at idle. When it warms up thoroughly, the oil pressure is around 10 psi at idle. get just a little off idle and the pressure comes up to 20, and it stabilizes at around 50 at cruise. I think what you have been describing is an engine set up with a little extra clearance in the bearings. The oil pump delivery is almost exactly proportional to rpm. At idle the pump can pump its entire output through the bearings while developing a pressure of whatever you said, 10 psi or something like that. As the engine speeds up, the oil volume delivered also increases and now you have "normal" oil pressure.
If you want to tear down the engine do it. Or, drive the car. It has gone 10K miles already and not locked up, so it must be doing something right.
You could also add a couple of bottles of special super-thick oil goop like Wynn's Motor Honey to get the viscosity up.
R.
A high-volume pump may be the answer if you can get the pan off without yanking the engine. If you do this put in a new high-quality oil pump drive.
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: dogdays]
#31752
01/08/07 01:08 PM
01/08/07 01:08 PM
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Quote:
R.
A high-volume pump may be the answer if you can get the pan off without yanking the engine. If you do this put in a new high-quality oil pump drive.
He's already running a hi vol pump. Read his post.
His oil pressure is fine IMHO. Don't worry about it if the motor runs good.
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: Challenger 1]
#31753
01/08/07 01:31 PM
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: 70blackfish]
#31755
01/09/07 12:35 PM
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With a HV pump and 10K miles...that's really low to me. I overlooked that too...lol.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles
[Re: HotRodDave]
#31761
05/31/08 05:01 PM
05/31/08 05:01 PM
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My 1969 340 Swinger, that I sold in 2001, had low oil pressure at idle, when the car was fully warmed up. Most of the time I had 10-12 lbs. at 750RPM idle, fully warmed up. One time the car was idling at 650, and the mechanical gauge read 8 lbs.!
The red oil pressure warning lamp faintly lit, but I jacked the idle to 950 and the lamp never lit again.
One area I was told to check but never got around to was the pump pickup clearances, to the depth to the bottom of the pan, the angle of the tube, and the mating surface at the attachment point.
Engine never ticked, and the oil pressure increased as early posters stated, in a linear fashion to 50/60 lb.s at 60 MPH cruise.
The engine ran like that for 2 years, and I put a couple thousand miles on that engine, ran like a scalded dog!
The new owner also never had a problem, and he subsequently sold the car, and now ... still no problem!
Drive it and don't worry!
Like the women I have dated --- Always looking for a better deal ....
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