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Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles

Posted By: Mopar72Man

Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/22/06 07:20 PM

Friend of mine has a rebuilt 340, stock bottom end, x-heads, upgraded cam and what not. He has about 10,000street/some strip miles on it and it seems to have, what i would consider, low oil pressure.

he is running 15w-40 with a little lucas stabilizer ( about 1/4 of a bottle) and

cold cruise is 65psi
cold idle is around 50

hot idle is 15
hot cruise is about 40 (~3,000rpm) and might get up to 50 if he runs it through the gears. is it just me, or is that kinda low for a 'low mile' mill, he is concerned?

Crank was turned .010, had new rod bearings and half-grooved mains with a melling hi-volume pump. Nothing fancy, and the clearances and such were not checked at the time.

Any suggestions? Maybe a quart of 20w-50 in the 15w-40 help keep it up?
Posted By: fastmark

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/22/06 07:27 PM

By any chance did he put a new MP front cam thrust plate on the motor. My bud did and it has a groove that oils the timing chain that is way to big and he had oil pressure like you stated. Changed it back to the stock one and it was fine. You can plug it with a oil galley plug as well. Correction, you plug the oil galley behind the plate on the drivers side.
Posted By: Mopar72Man

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/22/06 07:28 PM

Quote:

By any chance did he put a new MP front cam thrust plate on the motor. My bud did and it has a groove that oils the timing chain that is way to big and he had oil pressure like you stated. Changed it back to the stock one and it was fine. You can plug it with a oil galley plug as well.




Nope, stock thrust plate with a summit racing timing chain.

Thanks
Posted By: StealthWedge67

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/22/06 07:31 PM

Boy, wouldn't he be feeling better right now if he had checked his clearances while assembling the motor! 15psi is enough to keep the bearings happy at an idle. but the discrepancy between as little as 15 & as much as 50 sounds odd. Personally, I'd run it until I had to tear into it again, then next time around, double check all bearing clearances.

I'll be interested to hear others take on oil pressure fluxuation like this. Some may say it sounds fine. For what its worth, my 110,000 mile original 1966 383 bottom end assembly shows 40 psi at idle and about 43 at cruise with 10w-40.
Posted By: sleepyhead416

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/22/06 09:06 PM

I'd say make sure they put in the oil plug in by the dist drive.
Posted By: Mopar72Man

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/22/06 09:10 PM

Quote:

I'd say make sure they put in the oil plug in by the dist drive.




if it was out, would it still hold those kind of pressures that it does when cold? he said it is definately in however.
Posted By: sleepyhead416

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/22/06 10:46 PM

Pull dist and drive out us a priming rod look down inside hole while priming
Posted By: moper

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/22/06 11:14 PM

It's too low. The only way to "know" is to pull it, pull the pan, and peak in there.
Posted By: CokeBottleKid

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/22/06 11:20 PM

well was it always like this? A little more detail please. Have you tried a different gauge?
Posted By: HemiRick

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 12:21 AM

This is plenty of pressure.....10 lbs per 1000 rpm is all that's needed any more is wasted HP
Posted By: MoparJoe

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 12:47 AM

I would try it without the lucas crap in it and report back- I tried it in my work truck and in knocked down the pressure by 10psi - bad enough that the pressure light would come on at a hot idle.

I was P.O.'d because it takes 12qts of 15/40 and a $25 filter- cheaper than 7k for a new motor though.
Posted By: Mopar72Man

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 12:53 AM

Quote:

I would try it without the lucas crap in it and report back- I tried it in my work truck and in knocked down the pressure by 10psi - bad enough that the pressure light would come on at a hot idle.

I was P.O.'d because it takes 12qts of 15/40 and a $25 filter- cheaper than 7k for a new motor though.





Thanks, will do. Would he be better off just tossing a quart of 20w-50 in with the 15w-40 for a little thicker mix? thanks everyone.
Posted By: topside

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 12:53 AM

First thing I'd do is try another gauge; then cut the oil filter open and inspect the element for bearing material.
Could be bearing clearances too large, oil being aerated, maybe the filter going into bypass. Sounds like the oil has to be cold (thicker) or the pump spun up to maintain oil pressure, which sounds like an internal (pressure) leak. It doesn't sound fatal, but it doesn't sound right, either; mine have always idled hot with at least 30PSI with a stock pump and regardless of mileage.
Posted By: Mopar72Man

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 12:58 AM

Quote:

First thing I'd do is try another gauge; then cut the oil filter open and inspect the element for bearing material.
Could be bearing clearances too large, oil being aerated, maybe the filter going into bypass. Sounds like the oil has to be cold (thicker) or the pump spun up to maintain oil pressure, which sounds like an internal (pressure) leak. It doesn't sound fatal, but it doesn't sound right, either; mine have always idled hot with at least 30PSI with a stock pump and regardless of mileage.




thanks for the reply. I think i have another gauge he can toss on there. Whats the best way to cut the filter open? Do we need the whole filter cutter tool, or can we just zip it in half and peek in there? Could it be possible the oil pump is bypassing itself or something wierd?
Posted By: sixpaktoogo

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 01:26 AM

Had the same problem years ago with a rebuilt 340. Ended up being that the engine had one factory oversized lifter bore! Check the front of your block to see if it is stamped with (I believe) a diamond. If so, you will need to bush which ever lifter bore(s) back to standard size inorder to use your lifters.
Posted By: Mopar72Man

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 01:30 AM

Quote:

Had the same problem years ago with a rebuilt 340. Ended up being that the engine had one factory oversized lifter bore! Check the front of your block to see if it is stamped with (I believe) a diamond. If so, you will need to bush which ever lifter bore(s) back to standard size inorder to use your lifters.




thanks, there were no symbol stampings on the block when he had it hot tanked before the rebuild.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 02:05 AM

I agree with Hemi Rick and Mopar Joe, 10 psi for every thousand min, get the lucas out, try another gauge to be sure, if you are still worried try a oil analysis. btw what oil pump is he using? and why use the diesel oil
Posted By: Mopar72Man

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 02:14 AM

Quote:

I agree with Hemi Rick and Mopar Joe, 10 psi for every thousand min, get the lucas out, try another gauge to be sure, if you are still worried try a oil analysis. btw what oil pump is he using? and why use the diesel oil




thanks. it is a melling high volume as mentioned in the initial post. any many many people run diesel oil..it still has zinc (anti-scuff for our flat tappet cams) that most of todays motor oils now lack (since not many flat tappets runnin around and the rollers dont need it)..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 02:14 AM

What oil filter are you using?


Posted By: Mopar72Man

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 02:17 AM

Quote:

What oil filter are you using?







maybe somewhat related.

he's ran a wix/napa gold forever, the last time he changed it was on a sunday and the local napa was closed so he just grabbed a bosch. There is a bosch currently on there..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 02:20 AM

"Bosch

This is yet another Champion Labs filter that is sold at AutoZone. I am not a big fan of Champion filters. They seem flimsy on the inside to me."

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html
Posted By: topside

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 02:41 AM

To answer your question about cutting the filter open: cut the can off and away, pull out the filter and lay it out where you can look at it. Good lighting is important, to see the reflection of metal particles. Look at the whole filter inside as you take it apart, checking for collapse, etc like in the photos above.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 02:54 AM

I'd heard that about alot of the newer oils especially with solid cams, I've always used valvoline Durablend and I've had no issues
Posted By: mopars4ever

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 04:05 PM

Not to hijack, but what filter is the best to use? Mike
Posted By: moper

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 04:27 PM

Quote:



hot cruise is about 40 (~3,000rpm) and might get up to 50 if he runs it through the gears.




10PSI per thousand rpm is fine. but even on a street car, this is not enough for me. I hit 5K in my dump run pickup with my stock 400 on highway on ramps. Change the oil and filter first, get a hand help diagnostic gage too. If it changes at all in the wrong direction, I wouldnt hesitate to pull it.
Posted By: Paul_Fancsali

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 06:52 PM

The key here is it making noise or blowing smoke?I would frankly leave it alone nothing wrong with the lower pressure.Years ago I thought I needed more oil pressue too well I ended up with 110 lbs!!! Now unless you are running a all out racing engine 40-60 at cruise and low as 10 are perfectly OK. Around 14 years ago I had to call Chrysler engine hot line about low oil pressure for a 3.0. The first thing said was did it have at least 4 psi at idle No I said it had 7 I was told do nothing as there was nothing wrong with it In retrospect The car continued running with the low pressure for years body went away and car was finally junked witha bad trans
Posted By: dogdays

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 07:03 PM

I don't always agree with Paul but I do here. There is no reason to get more oil pressure unless you WANT to eat more horsepower in the oil pump. Or, throw in one can of STP to thicken it up a bit.

R.
Posted By: darenrt

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 10/23/06 11:55 PM

I have read where Lucas can cause the oil to foam in the crankcase.
air does not make a good lube.
experiments can be seen at bobtheoilguy.com also claims Fram filters are junk. I lost 8-10lbs. using a Fram.
Posted By: Mopar72Man

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 01/06/07 03:42 PM

Issue still remains, in re-reading this reply.

Quote:

First thing I'd do is try another gauge; then cut the oil filter open and inspect the element for bearing material.
Could be bearing clearances too large, oil being aerated, maybe the filter going into bypass. Sounds like the oil has to be cold (thicker) or the pump spun up to maintain oil pressure, which sounds like an internal (pressure) leak. It doesn't sound fatal, but it doesn't sound right, either; mine have always idled hot with at least 30PSI with a stock pump and regardless of mileage.




i'm wondering why if when the motor was first fired. At idle it held about 30lbs hot. Not its dwindled down to 15.

Any other suggestions? Could a faulty pump/spring be the culprit? He has a oil idiot light for 15psi and a autometer gauge. light comes on and the gauge shows 15 at hot idle. so we dont think its the gauges fault. Anything else we can check besides pulling it apart? Its been through a couple oil changes with no change in pressure.

thanks.
Posted By: CJK440

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 01/06/07 04:09 PM

Quote:

Issue still remains, in re-reading this reply.

Quote:

First thing I'd do is try another gauge; then cut the oil filter open and inspect the element for bearing material.
Could be bearing clearances too large, oil being aerated, maybe the filter going into bypass. Sounds like the oil has to be cold (thicker) or the pump spun up to maintain oil pressure, which sounds like an internal (pressure) leak. It doesn't sound fatal, but it doesn't sound right, either; mine have always idled hot with at least 30PSI with a stock pump and regardless of mileage.




i'm wondering why if when the motor was first fired. At idle it held about 30lbs hot. Not its dwindled down to 15.

Any other suggestions? Could a faulty pump/spring be the culprit? He has a oil idiot light for 15psi and a autometer gauge. light comes on and the gauge shows 15 at hot idle. so we dont think its the gauges fault. Anything else we can check besides pulling it apart? Its been through a couple oil changes with no change in pressure.

thanks.




If it changed pressure from when it first was run to now, then there is something wrong.
Posted By: Mopar72Man

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 01/06/07 04:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Issue still remains, in re-reading this reply.

Quote:

First thing I'd do is try another gauge; then cut the oil filter open and inspect the element for bearing material.
Could be bearing clearances too large, oil being aerated, maybe the filter going into bypass. Sounds like the oil has to be cold (thicker) or the pump spun up to maintain oil pressure, which sounds like an internal (pressure) leak. It doesn't sound fatal, but it doesn't sound right, either; mine have always idled hot with at least 30PSI with a stock pump and regardless of mileage.




i'm wondering why if when the motor was first fired. At idle it held about 30lbs hot. Not its dwindled down to 15.

Any other suggestions? Could a faulty pump/spring be the culprit? He has a oil idiot light for 15psi and a autometer gauge. light comes on and the gauge shows 15 at hot idle. so we dont think its the gauges fault. Anything else we can check besides pulling it apart? Its been through a couple oil changes with no change in pressure.

thanks.




If it changed pressure from when it first was run to now, then there is something wrong.





ok so how do we diagnose everything besides pulling it out and apart? meaning we hate to rip it out and find it was a worn pump drive or something. if also anyone could give us a breakdown of possibilites
Posted By: bonefish

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 01/06/07 07:17 PM

my 496 has the exact same oil press. as you describe, its been like that for the last 4 years and is still running great.(let me see if i can find some wood to knock on)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 01/06/07 09:45 PM

The 340 currently in my car does the same thing. About 10-15 at idle when hot. If you step on it it can get all the way back up at 50, and get about 35-40 at cruise. Around 60 when its cold. Been this way for 6 years, still runs ok. Since the day i got it, it has been ticking like its got a wiped cam or lifter, and has this same oil pressure.
Posted By: CJK440

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 01/07/07 12:49 AM

Quote:

my 496 has the exact same oil press. as you describe, its been like that for the last 4 years and is still running great.(let me see if i can find some wood to knock on)




I would not say that that pressure is bad per se. I have had cars that ran like that without an issue.

But if the car first was run with very different psi numbers something changed and that would worry me.
Posted By: dogdays

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 01/08/07 04:36 PM

The pump drive either works or it doesn't. If it doesn't, you find out about it in a hurry and drag the car home because the engine is locked up.

My '93 Sub has 244,000 miles. When I start it up cold, the oil pressure will be about 35 psi at idle. When it warms up thoroughly, the oil pressure is around 10 psi at idle. get just a little off idle and the pressure comes up to 20, and it stabilizes at around 50 at cruise. I think what you have been describing is an engine set up with a little extra clearance in the bearings. The oil pump delivery is almost exactly proportional to rpm. At idle the pump can pump its entire output through the bearings while developing a pressure of whatever you said, 10 psi or something like that. As the engine speeds up, the oil volume delivered also increases and now you have "normal" oil pressure.

If you want to tear down the engine do it. Or, drive the car. It has gone 10K miles already and not locked up, so it must be doing something right.

You could also add a couple of bottles of special super-thick oil goop like Wynn's Motor Honey to get the viscosity up.

R.

A high-volume pump may be the answer if you can get the pan off without yanking the engine. If you do this put in a new high-quality oil pump drive.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 01/08/07 05:08 PM

Quote:


R.

A high-volume pump may be the answer if you can get the pan off without yanking the engine. If you do this put in a new high-quality oil pump drive.




He's already running a hi vol pump. Read his post.

His oil pressure is fine IMHO. Don't worry about it if the motor runs good.
Posted By: dogdays

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 01/08/07 05:31 PM

Sorry, I got on the end of this, didn't read all the previous posts.

R.
Posted By: 70blackfish

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 01/09/07 04:25 PM

in some rebuild kits there is a piece of fiber that goes in front of oil slinger, I had that come off and somwhat plug my oil pick up tube/
Posted By: moper

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 01/09/07 04:35 PM

With a HV pump and 10K miles...that's really low to me. I overlooked that too...lol.
Posted By: Flesh

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 05/30/08 11:12 PM

I have a X-block stroker in my cuda and it is does about the same thing. Cold 70-80 psi, hot idle 10-20psi. Got me worried also at time . The oil pressure works like a tack and will go from 10 to 70 with the rpms. I do keep the idle real low though. I also notice if i shut down the car for a few minute(it cools off i think) and restart it at idle the pressure will be more on the 20 side. Seems the heat effects it a whole lot. Been driving it for 2 summer like this now and so far no break down. Read alot of post and i hear dont worry about it and i also hear tear it down alot. I chenged guages and sending unit to make sure that wasnt the problem it stayed the same. I would blame the pump myself i'am unsure whats in mine or mileage also but someone told me that it sounds like they threw a high pressure pump in for racing by the way it acts.
Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 05/31/08 01:32 AM

Quote:

in some rebuild kits there is a piece of fiber that goes in front of oil slinger, I had that come off and somwhat plug my oil pick up tube/


The fiber ring that I recall in the kits goes in the damper, outside of the front cover. I've never seen one put inside the front cover.
Posted By: 3ddart

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 05/31/08 01:51 PM

i had a small block in my bracket car that did the same thing (318 or 360 i can't remember). i checked alot of things but never did find anything to blame it on. 1 old timer told me he had a ford motor do the same thing and after 3 rebuilds he discovered a crack in the lifter galley which would open some and bleed off presure with engine heat. of course there is no way to fix that so i would run the motor as is and start gathering parts for a backup motor if this 1 goes belly-up 3ddart
Posted By: Jeremiah

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 05/31/08 05:01 PM

I have been pounding an LA motor for about four months almost daily (4.10's, 4-speed). It has about 20 psi at idle normal operating temp but goes to 15-17 when it gets over 200 F. At 6500 it is pumping ~65-70 psi. So far so good.
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 05/31/08 07:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What oil filter are you using?







maybe somewhat related.

he's ran a wix/napa gold forever, the last time he changed it was on a sunday and the local napa was closed so he just grabbed a bosch. There is a bosch currently on there..




Is this a test? The answer is; the piece of crap middle short one is the fram.

Don't even use them on your lawnmower.

I would not worry about the oil preasure you have.
Posted By: VS29H0B

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 05/31/08 09:01 PM

My 1969 340 Swinger, that I sold in 2001, had low oil pressure at idle, when the car was fully warmed up. Most of the time I had 10-12 lbs. at 750RPM idle, fully warmed up. One time the car was idling at 650, and the mechanical gauge read 8 lbs.!

The red oil pressure warning lamp faintly lit, but I jacked the idle to 950 and the lamp never lit again.

One area I was told to check but never got around
to was the pump pickup clearances, to the depth to the bottom of the pan, the angle of the tube, and the mating surface at the attachment point.

Engine never ticked, and the oil pressure increased as early posters stated, in a linear fashion to 50/60 lb.s at 60 MPH cruise.

The engine ran like that for 2 years, and I put a couple thousand miles on that engine, ran like a scalded dog!

The new owner also never had a problem, and he subsequently sold the car, and now ... still no problem!

Drive it and don't worry!
Posted By: Hans

Re: Friends 'low' oil psi 340, only about 10,000miles - 06/03/08 02:37 AM

I had a built 340 in the Cuda and it had the same pressure that you described. Ran it for a lot of years and no problems. Now I have a built 408 in it with a HV pump...same oil pressure. I've ran this setup for a few years now and no problems. You have 10k miles on it now...don't worry about it.
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