Re: New clutch, SEVERE Chatter from a stop NOW WITH PIC's
[Re: Sniper]
#3168865
08/18/23 04:06 PM
08/18/23 04:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,315 Omaha Ne
TJP
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,315
Omaha Ne
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Sniper Initially the departure was somewhere beyond .125". Could've likely driven a greyhound bus through the clearance ( OK joking a bit).
Seriously ungood, probably most of the issue there. That's allowing the pedal/linkage/throwout bearing to over travel, which is why the fingers are hitting. 100% agree. Just sent several pic's to a tech at CF, his thoughts are this pressure plate was hosed from the get go or became so after install. he said in his opinion and experience two of the 3 lifting arms were not lifting or sitting down at the same as the third which correlates to the hot spots on the PP. Parts just arrived so off to work I go May not know much until the linkage parts arrive from Brewer's which likely won't be until next week. Will keep all updated
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Re: New clutch, SEVERE Chatter from a stop NOW WITH PIC's
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3168920
08/18/23 09:21 PM
08/18/23 09:21 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,754 Phila
PhillyRag
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,754
Phila
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1, Get a new pressure plate, clean it very well with blue shop towels and brake clean and do not touch it on the friction side afterwards, even normal skin oil is bad. 2. Get the flywheel re-ground by a different shop, they used too fine of a stone, that is not an 80 or 90 grit finish and it has weird patterns off to the right like someone hit it with a cookie disc or something. Also clean it with blue shop towels and brake clean and do not touch it afterwards. 3. get a new friction disc and do not touch it 4, make sure there is no excessive grease on the input shaft or throwout bearing (or anything in there for that matter as even a little tiny bit on the friction surface can cause issues)
Do not let it get any greasy hand prints on any of the friction surfaces of the disc, pressure plate or flywheel!
Doing all that will cure any issue inside the bellhousing. All good points but Iβll add, do not grease the pilot busing, itβs silicon-bronze it lubricates itself and will not cut grooves like the roller bearing will. Be weary of some bushing which aren't oil impregnated. I've seen them being sold at some shows.
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Re: New clutch, SEVERE Chatter from a stop NOW WITH PIC's
[Re: TJP]
#3168965
08/19/23 06:59 AM
08/19/23 06:59 AM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,783 ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,783
ohio
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Before removing the flywheel, I'd like to check the runout of the face. Indicator base on the block, needle on the face.
That dark spot looks about 180 from where the grinding marks are visible. Like the flywheel wobbles.
Be a good idea to check that on the new flywheel too. Who knows if the crank flange is bent. Unlikely but not impossible.
Bellhousing concentricty is important too.
There may be multiple little things adding up.
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: New clutch, SEVERE Chatter from a stop. SOME UPDATES
[Re: ruderunner]
#3169554
08/21/23 10:24 PM
08/21/23 10:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,315 Omaha Ne
TJP
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
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Omaha Ne
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A kwik update: 1. The crank flange had a high spot ring around the outside preventing the FW from sitting flat on the entire flange surface. Wasn'nt really noticeable until one looked at flange pattern the back of the FW. Rust or something similar (orange & black spotting) was evident on the flange. A kwik pass with a flat aluminum block confirmed the presence of the ring. 2. The pilot bushing was not installed straight as the upper lip was proturding 3. The Z bar mount is definitely tweaked 4. new flywheel mounted showed 0 variation to the block measured across the face 5. Bellhousing run out checked at .022" Waiting for offset dowels to get the bellhousing in spec
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Re: New clutch, SEVERE Chatter from a stop. SOME UPDATES
[Re: TJP]
#3169880
08/23/23 11:46 AM
08/23/23 11:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,978
U.S.S.A.
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A kwik update: 1. The crank flange had a high spot ring around the outside preventing the FW from sitting flat on the entire flange surface. Wasn'nt really noticeable until one looked at flange pattern the back of the FW. Rust or something similar (orange & black spotting) was evident on the flange. A kwik pass with a flat aluminum block confirmed the presence of the ring. 2. The pilot bushing was not installed straight as the upper lip was proturding 3. The Z bar mount is definitely tweaked 4. new flywheel mounted showed 0 variation to the block measured across the face 5. Bellhousing run out checked at .022" Waiting for offset dowels to get the bellhousing in spec Hopefully the RobbMc dowels and directly from Him , Summit sells the lakewood branded RobbMc type now and they are almost 150 a pair vs. 39 a pair ...
running up my post count some more .
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Re: New clutch, SEVERE Chatter from a stop. SOME UPDATES
[Re: moparx]
#3170248
08/24/23 09:39 PM
08/24/23 09:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,315 Omaha Ne
TJP
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,315
Omaha Ne
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Re: New clutch, SEVERE Chatter from a stop. SOME UPDATES
[Re: JohnRR]
#3170249
08/24/23 09:45 PM
08/24/23 09:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,315 Omaha Ne
TJP
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,315
Omaha Ne
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A kwik update: 1. The crank flange had a high spot ring around the outside preventing the FW from sitting flat on the entire flange surface. Wasn'nt really noticeable until one looked at flange pattern the back of the FW. Rust or something similar (orange & black spotting) was evident on the flange. A kwik pass with a flat aluminum block confirmed the presence of the ring. 2. The pilot bushing was not installed straight as the upper lip was proturding 3. The Z bar mount is definitely tweaked 4. new flywheel mounted showed 0 variation to the block measured across the face 5. Bellhousing run out checked at .022" Waiting for offset dowels to get the bellhousing in spec Hopefully the RobbMc dowels and directly from Him , Summit sells the lakewood branded RobbMc type now and they are almost 150 a pair vs. 39 a pair ... I certainly wish i had know about those before pulling the trigger on the summit / lakewood ones Oh well next time Didn't get much accomplished today other removing the dowels. The welding a bolt trick worked really well especially with the motor still in the car. So thanks for the suggestion Still learning at 69 YO Attaching a few pic's of the back of the crank and FW where one can see it was only seating on the outer edge along with non shouldered bolts
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Re: New clutch, SEVERE Chatter from a stop. SOME UPDATES
[Re: TJP]
#3170312
08/25/23 10:06 AM
08/25/23 10:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 667 Los Osos, Ca
CKessel
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 667
Los Osos, Ca
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Nothing like multiple issues contributing to one big problem. Back in the 80's, I had a 360 crank worked on by Hank The Crank. One of the operations done by them was to true up the rear flange.
Carl Kessel
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Re: New clutch, SEVERE Chatter from a stop. SOME UPDATES
[Re: TJP]
#3170333
08/25/23 11:30 AM
08/25/23 11:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,978
U.S.S.A.
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A kwik update: 1. The crank flange had a high spot ring around the outside preventing the FW from sitting flat on the entire flange surface. Wasn'nt really noticeable until one looked at flange pattern the back of the FW. Rust or something similar (orange & black spotting) was evident on the flange. A kwik pass with a flat aluminum block confirmed the presence of the ring. 2. The pilot bushing was not installed straight as the upper lip was proturding 3. The Z bar mount is definitely tweaked 4. new flywheel mounted showed 0 variation to the block measured across the face 5. Bellhousing run out checked at .022" Waiting for offset dowels to get the bellhousing in spec Hopefully the RobbMc dowels and directly from Him , Summit sells the lakewood branded RobbMc type now and they are almost 150 a pair vs. 39 a pair ... I certainly wish i had know about those before pulling the trigger on the summit / lakewood ones Oh well next time Didn't get much accomplished today other removing the dowels. The welding a bolt trick worked really well especially with the motor still in the car. So thanks for the suggestion Still learning at 69 YO Attaching a few pic's of the back of the crank and FW where one can see it was only seating on the outer edge along with non shouldered bolts I thought everyone that's a longtime member knew about them , the good thing I guess is it's on the customers dime. I have all 3 available offsets in my stash , would have really hurt at the summit price ... The first time I bought them all they were only 28 a set ... RobbMC dowels
running up my post count some more .
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Re: New clutch, SEVERE Chatter from a stop. SOME UPDATES
[Re: Sniper]
#3170582
08/26/23 01:00 PM
08/26/23 01:00 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,358 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,358
north of coder
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https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/bellhousing-dowel-pins?the only drawback with those dowel pins, they are .500, while the mopar pins are .495-.496. that extra .004 in diameter will prove to be fun installing them, then the bellhousing or transmission case holes may need enlarging by a few thousandths so the pins fit there.
Last edited by moparx; 08/26/23 01:11 PM.
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Re: New clutch, SEVERE Chatter from a stop. SOME UPDATES
[Re: Sniper]
#3170598
08/26/23 01:54 PM
08/26/23 01:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,315 Omaha Ne
TJP
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
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Omaha Ne
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Summit branded offset dowels are even less than RobbMc
https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/bellhousing-dowel-pins?N=dowel-pin-diameter-in%3A0-500-in
Just an FYI Sniper, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong the summit pins are oversized at .500 which work well in a ford but Mopar's use a .496 diameter pin. If one does get them in you're not going to turn them. Additionally, the same is true for the bell housing side/holes as I found out yesterday So to use the "Other guys" pins one will have to polish them down with some aggressive paper (80 grit) and a lathe, drill press or such. DO REMEBER you have to do BOTH ends of the Dowel. If not when installing the bellhousing it may push the offset side of the dowel partially into the block causing it to seize as I found out yesterday, My D/A fault for not thinking this through again. Fortunately this only happened on 1 of the 2 pins and it was the lower more accessible one. After seizing, it broke one allen driver bit while trying to rock it back and forth. OK get another. The sides of the allen socket on the dowel then split/ fractured. THANK GOD FOR CARBIBDE BITS π So what should have been a 2-3 hour job at most turned into about 8-9. The RobMc pins are a two piece design in which the dowel in the block is separate from the bellhousing dowel. Once installed you rotate the bellhousing half of the pin to where you want it and the lock it down with the internal screw. Last night I would have paid 300.00 for a pair of those pins. ROBMC PIN LINKYI tried ordering them yesterday but no one answered From my limited searching he and Brewers appear to be the only offering the correct size pins. It was too late for Brewers. And I alos thought about John RR as he said he had them but again to late to get them o/nited So Today I will give the summit ones another shot with both ends turned down to the .496 diameter. Wish me luck
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