We run a commercial HVAC company here in Tucson. We are not your typical HVAC company that only works on the smaller 5-ton and less mini-split kind of company. We work on chillers, boilers, pumps, cooling towers and pretty much all things HVAC from service to replacements to new construction. While there is no shortage of work there is definitely a shortage of skilled workers. This really should be of no surprise to anyone as it has been a topic of discussion with folks like Mike Rowe, Dave Ramsey and others. The question is, when will it improve? I've attempted to find skilled workers for awhile now with no luck. I think at this point anyone that's worth having is happily employed and or at least handsomely paid. In either case, the situation is still such that there is a notable shortage of workers. To dive deeper into this shortage, I'm seeing a generational gap. It appears as though the older skilled folks are retiring out and there is a clear gap in the age of the workforce in these trades. This is probably something we should have seen coming and sadly I think it's only going to get worse.

Has anyone found a way around this mess? If so, care to share words of wisdom?

At this point, unless I'm missing something in my hiring endeavors, my new plan is to find not so much someone skilled per se but rather someone who is mechanically inclined, has a desire to learn a skilled trade and perhaps most importantly, has integrity. I understand this is still a tall order but if I can find them, I'll be thrilled to teach them everything I know in hopes of doing my part to fix this train wreck. If anybody knows someone that fits the bill send them my way...

When you want to read the replies tomorrow and you can’t find the thread, check the current events forum, because that’s where it’s going to end up.

I considered that. Perhaps it can have a good run here before it goes to the other side. We'll see.

MadMopars I think you are so spot on. And sadly it's not just the skilled trades like you need. I won't go much further because that will get the thread moved.

It sounds like you are very in touch with what's going on and your plan of finding someone hard working, with initiative and integrity is a good plan. Good luck. I know it's very frustrating.

That is a tough situation to be in. And way too common now in our great USA. I'm now retired from the fed. govt. I still enjoy working hard, but I just don't understand the decline of work ethic. I could digress now, but I won't.
Off the top of my head, here's a couple suggestions.

1) Hire retired HVAC techs for 1 or 2 days a week. There are some retirees who still want to work some, but can't handle 40 hrs a week.

2) Go to your local or private school system and offer to assist in starting an apprentice program

I don't think it will be tomorrow but I do think this will change. My oldest dropped out of college and is now on the electrician path. I've talked to many younger ladies at work and noticed 2 things. 1). The ladies are doing college but most are doing community college and then on-line for the 4 year degree. Not a lot of people seem to be going off to college and most of these ladies families could afford it. 2). Almost everyone of these ladies are dating a guy that is either heading towards HVAC/Electrician/plumber/ or elevators. 6 ladies and not one is dating a guy in college. This is the Wash DC area(relatively speaking) but seems to me the younger gen is opting out of the path I took. As I told my son, you finish up and get your journeyman cert, another couple of years you can get your masters cert and in this area pull down 150k.

What you're looking for is somebody like my son (yeah, he's already got a job). He has built/resurrected a few cars, has a math degree, played college baseball, and is married (yeah, you can't ask that, but...). With those skills at a time he needed a job, he went to work for a pump company (sewer type). He got the job through a guy he played beer league baseball with not because of any of his qualifications that you would find on his resume. His boss knew he had the aptitude, BUT the personal relationship is what counted. It wasn't the ideal job (too many family members of his boss also working there). His current job was based on the success he had at the previous job. He is now working on irrigation pumps and controls. His boss asked him where he learned to work on the controls. He told him it was on the job.

So, look for aptitude and attitude. Ask about outside interests and accomplishments. Also, understand that for every person like my son (who is now 37) you will encounter 50 who won't perform at a high level, maybe more. Being c0ommercial HVAC, try to read physical condition (read college athlete). A high level math and science former student also has the ability to learn.

Hiring has always been a crap shoot, but learning to read people will help.

took me 3 years to find someone that would do the Boiler whatever whatever for the heat in my pole building. I did the concrete and put in six 200-foot zones but really all one big shop, so I won't be separating any. I had to call 6? maybe 8 companies each year and they would come and look at it and I would never hear from them again?? I just had a guy come a few weeks ago and said he will do it?? 9 thousand dollars and he only live 10 miles away. seems like a lot??? I dropped off 6k last week. now I wait >

IMO you're going to have "grow your own."
That means you need to maintain your seasoned guys, and pay them a little extra to bring up their (eventual) successors.
Always keep in mind that employee turnover is just business. If you can't keep employees, ask those that quit "why." Have frank, cordial, open-minded departure interviews if they're willing to do so.
The bottom line is that you need to figure out what it takes to KEEP people.

Everyone wants to hire already skilled tradesmen, but no one wants to train them. The employers expect the guy to walk in and do the job, and is willing to pay them as little as possible to get the guys to work for their company.

You are correct, the solution is to get people that are interested in learning the trade you are willing to teach them, then actually train them. Then your challenge will be the other companies that will be willing to steal those employees you have trained. There has to be a mutual benefit for all parties involved to make this work in the current days.

I have been in the commercial HVAC trade for 30 years. The best guys we have in the trade started with a 2 year HVAC specific trade school degree and then moved on to a 5 year apprenticeship program. It's a commitment to go through this schooling but you will have some of the best trained and well rounded HVAC guys you can find. I myself have gone this route and have never been unemployed and only worked at 2 different shops in 30 years. Good luck in your search, as you know not a lot of the younger generation are looking to get into the trades.

BINGO... find a good young person. plenty out there and teach them..

My son just graduated, he's going into trades. Want to work on cars, lol. Told him that was a tough way to make a living with book rate and all. He thought about being an electrician, we talked about getting into the union apprenticeship program. We'll see which way he jumps.

To the OP, you better find a young guy to train up before all your old hands retire off and you have no institutional experience anymore.



There's a no shitter. Been made many offers, none worth me changing where I work for.

One way that a local independent HVAC contractor for (large and small chillers, commercial…etc.) was able to build their business and retain employees, was to make them part owners of the business. Basically, give them the opportunity to buy a percentage of the business. This company, I referenced, provided service and parts for (Carrier, Daikin/McQuay, Trane, York) chillers. Many times they could provide the manufacturers’ parts cheaper than the local manufacturers reps. The small HVAC owner told me they just didn’t ridiculously mark up the parts. I did business with them for 20+ years untill I retired from Facilities O&M at the NASA Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans. At the NASA Site, they worked on chillers which were 210 to 2,500 tons. Being this was a government facility, the lowest qualified vendor would get the job. They were not always the lowest bidder, but performed well when they won the job.

The HVAC company also built up a contingent of rental HVAC, Chillers and small cooling towers.

The owner told me they transitioned to a employee owned business over several years. He stated that the employees were more motivated to work harder, generate greater profits and were more conscientious regarding the overall operation. Obviously, because they had a stake in the profits. They trained their employees and offered classroom training to outside people as well.
Ron

Finding good help in a economy that is booming is hard, I agree on you looking for good candidates that want to learn a good trade by starting them at the bottom of the wage scale and having a good program for teaching them the trade. The key to keeping them is good communications and well plan active learning process and promoting them up the wage scales as they become more productive
I started a beginning apprentice lineman for a small telephone company in 1964, they had a 6 year wage promotion and training plan that taught me the trade and ended up with me getting into management and eventually a district manger, I took business management course at several different Jr. college in SO CA, we move when I quit General Telephone and went to work for better company in another part of the Mojave desert 70 miles away
I have been involved in hiring new hires at the journeyman level as well as the beginning apprentice level.
Is your company a union company or not? The reason I'm asking is some of the trade unions have a mandatory training program for beginning workers like the Iron Workers and power lineman that I.B.E.W. has. I.B.E.W. was the unnion I was hire in which later became the CWA union when General telephone change our small company name that they had bought to become part of General Telephone Company of CA.
Good luck, have you advertised in some of the bigger city back east on the internet and local media companies
If not maybe that would help

This particular area near us / me .. you just can't find help , if you do .. they come to work maybe 1-2 months and by then someone has offered them more and they leave

I use every source I can find to hire people , pickens are sllim I hire help knowing they will only last 60-70- days and keep looking , it is a pain

Words of wisdom....Don't send a new guy in to clean a cooling tower...

If you have a local college around there I'd put that very same posting (or similar) on the bulletin board, lots of kids go to college and realize they want to do something else and if you're willing to train I bet your phone rings off the hook, college also cuts out the druggies and drunks, or most of them. Think outside the box.

The o/p doesn't expect to pay as little as possible. And I don't see what's wrong with LOOKING for people with experience, especially when you have a good company.

There are some young people willing to learn for sure, but plenty? I don't think so.

Interviewing people now, you can usually tell within a few minutes if they are a fit. The video game and cell phone dumb ones can't carry a conversation.

Where do you advertise?

I've been hearing about a severe worker shortage for years, but rarely ever see these openings posted anywhere. I'm not really an active job seeker, but occasionally look, so maybe I'm missing them. I could be looking in the wrong places. It seems that you have to look at a company's website for many positions, but someone would have to know the company before looking.

I'm usually one of just a small number of "old people" willing to defend the younger ones whether it's for their knowledge, work ethic, manners, etc. (I'm 60 by the way) I base a lot of it on my son's friends, classmates, & roommates since the time he was in high school right up the present day. He's 24 now & graduated college last year. Some of his friends went to college & some didn't, but none of them seem to be stupid, lazy, arrogant or whatever older generations like to label them as. They all work.

One common issue that annoys them to no end is to be exploited & taken advantage of by an employer. Lots of employers want college degrees, certificates, experience & more, yet they are only willing to pay minimum wage or slightly higher. It's understood that there's a probationary period to prove your worth & knowledge, but it's a two way street. College & other training costs aren't cheap My son's monthly payment for his student loan is over $800. A potential employer offering $12 per hour is laughable.

I don't have any advice for "what to do" in finding new employees except to honestly analyze what you're willing to pay.

Small sample size. Your son is a good guy obviously, and smart enough to surround himself with the same.

I definitely don't want to sound like I'm bashing every single under the age of 30 person, or maybe 40? Generally speaking though, it's gotten much worse. As a training officer it's like night and day from what it was like 15-20 years ago! It's scary. So many expect to be pampered, and are clueless about life. The reasons for call out sick or leaving early/being late are ridiculous! "My dog is sick" is a common one.

I didn't take it that way, I was only generalizing. There are many times I see posts whether it's here, other forums or even facebook, where people around my age or older hate anything & everything to do with younger people. I know more people in my generation that are much more useless & ignorant....LoL

I hear ya. To some people change is bad no matter what. There's that feeling of "things should be like when I was a kid". I have to watch myself sometimes because I'll start thinking that way and realize I can't expect everything to remain exactly the same.

when i graduated a hundred years or so ago, [it feels like it anyway. ] the big thing was "go to college".
as i just loved math and cars, that would have been great for me, except for one big stumbling block. i couldn't afford it, my parents couldn't afford it, and college loans were not able to be approved for me because of the income requirements needed for the loan's approval[s].
as i was interested in cars, i got a job at a local body shop and worked there until it closed in 1972.
after that, i dumbed around until i was offered a job at Rockwell, International in 1973. i started there the day after christmas, working on an assembly line. after a few weeks, i got to know a pretty cool engineer for the firm that was also into cars. as our friendship grew, he approached me, asking if i knew anything about machine work, as the machine shop needed help. i had no idea what he was talking about, he asked me if i would be interested in learning, and i said yes.
as it were, this was the beginning of the machine shop's venture into CNC machines. i got in on the ground floor, and the rest is history.
my love of math, and the challenge of learning something entirely new to me, lead me to a 45 career becoming a master machinist and designer/fabricator/shift supervisor, being almost 95% self taught because there were no real "teachers" in the shop then. just : "watch this. now you do it", and they walked away, leaving me to sink or swim on my own. as i didn't want to disappoint, i paid strict attention to the "this is how it's done" aspect, took my time to copiously write down tons of notes in a notebook, and carefully follow any and all instructions.
did i make mistakes ? YOU BETCH'A !!! however, when that happened, i took my licks like a man should, but also wrote my mistakes down in my book. i also quickly learned the "you broke it, you fix it" routine. this lead me to use my thinking cap to come up with new and inventive ways of repairing mistakes, saving the company money, instead of throwing expensive castings and assemblies in the scrap pile.
one of my best investments in my career, was the purchase of a copy of ""Machinery's Hand Book". if there was a math formula i didn't know and needed, it was in there, as well as a ton of other super useful information i needed to know.
as i am now years retired, i still try to keep my skills up, using the equipment my best friend has in his shop.
today, the company i once worked for has had the "help wanted : machinists" add in the local papers, internet, and banners on the buildings, for several years now, and still can't get qualified candidates. they are offering generous [for this area] packages, including health care and vacation days at start, as well as pay packages.
as Rockwell International divested itself from all it's entities with exception of it's areospace interests in the mid 1980's, the company that bought our shop has been bought and sold many times since.
the company that owns it now pays my former position $40.00+ per hour !
i'm not sure how all this is related to the original topic, but i thought some might find it interesting to see how it is in my small part of the world.
just my life experience. your mileage will vary.

I don't know anything about your industry or your labor market but it sounds like you may need to up your starting salaries and then give the keepers a raise before sixty days.

Just my $.02.

Bill

People job hop to get a raise. If you look at their resume and they have a new job every few months and have not been fired safe to say that is what they are doing.

Many shop type businesses here are top heavy with redundant office people and that often means little if any of the profits make it down to the shop people. If the shop people get an annual raise it's like 25-50 cents if your good. These places will hold onto low productivity office people like they are made of gold and chase off manual labor guys who make them money all because they won't pay them properly. They don't care if you leave and pretty much expect you to anyways.

Ill say this from my experience in manufacturing. Young people are having their needs met by multiple sources. A parent that lets their 28 year old son/daughter live at home rent free along with government provided "assistance." With these types of free resources a young person does not need a career let alone a full time job. Mike Rowe said recently that young guys just need a couch and they're all set. I see guys 25-30-35 years old come in- work a week and their gone. Many have multiple children. Its easy for a 20 something to get all kinds of assistance with EVERYTHING. Its not just for the un abled person. Hasn't been for awhile now. All these young men who 30 years ago would be mechanics, welders, truck drivers and electricians are happy living in moms apartment being an online gamer.

I solved all my problems (HA!) by having 9 kids and teaching them to work hard and learn skills. My oldest (17) has been working construction for 3 summers now and part time during school, he is going to be building my shop very soon. I have a 10 year old rebuilding 904 and 727 transmissions and were gonna step up to the OD versions very soon, my 12 year old puts cams in hemis, helps me rebuild them, fixes lawn mowers, log splitters, bicycles and is building a huge herd of egg laying chickens... my second son (14) helps mom around the house a ton, the 8 year old does all the mowing, weeding the garden... all the older ones can change oil and tires and detail cars for me (except the 10 year old who builds transmissions, somehow cars look worse after he "details" them, think PigPen).


The 5 oldest can all run the barbeque, as I type this the 10 year old is barbequing a deer that got hit in front of my shop last night.


I have tried training other people and usually they just go start their own shops, they all think they can do what I do but only one has been successful so far. Any more I would just age discriminate if I hired someone, they must be old, I would rather them be slow and steady than anything I have seen from gen Z yet.

This is what I see too. I'll tell you where there's a HUGE void - heavy diesel mechanics. Truck dealers (Freightliner, Kenworth, Volvo, etc.) ALL OVER USA & Canada are looking for young diesel techs. There are basically none. Mike Rowe is spot-on. If you are good, you can make huge money. It's a lifelong commitment. What do you want to be when you grow-up? You can be almost anything if you really want it.

Auto Techs are the same......last I heard we would be 700k techs short in the coming years. Who's going to fix these rolling computers we all have? I teach Auto at a Tech College...I have past students in their 20's out in the field making 100k+. I have a 23 yr old nephew doing HVAC making well north of 100k...all without a penny of student loans. It all starts with Mom and Dad. If you're losing people to ther shops you NEED to find out why and put together a package everyone can live with

I have a friend running an auto shop(4 actually) Hugely successful. He buys lunch once a week, has team outings doing fun activities like axe throwing, a huge social media presence celebrating birthdays and work anniversaries etc. The younger workers LOVE that stuff! He pays well with good bennies....has no issue attracting and keeping help....many are my past students. Grow your own!

I find kids that have hot rods
Not ones that parents pay to mod
Its tough
Hvac has been great to me

My sister works in the MI State Police Recruiting Division. She told me that candidates Mothers are showing up and present during their son/daughters interview. The MSP allows it. This was unheard of 15 years ago- at least in this field.

That's too funny!!! What is gonna happen when there is a big ole shootout? Are they gonna call their mommies for backup? Kinda reminds me of on "step brothers" when they went interviewing for jobs.

It is sad and tragic because with the MSP acceptance used to be very very hard. You had to have it all- academics, physically fit and quick /well spoken. On the other hand, the 21 week Academy which is 100% military style right down to buzzed/bald heads and living on site remains very tough. They have a much higher rate of quitting/drop now than 20 years ago. No phone BS- up at 5am- 2 minute showers and TONS or running. Mommy cant help with that although she probably will Litigate when Johnny washes out.

I see this kind of crap all the time now. It's very sad! It's not just MSP I promise you. The bar has been lowered across the country. Agencies had to in order to have any candidates.

People like to [censored] on the younger generations, but often neglect to realize their generation raised them. Kids didn't go soft in a vacuum. It's always been about parenting. You sir, are a dying breed. It takes people with your mindset to keep this country moving forward. God speed.

Bingo!

Funny, years ago I was at my aunts place and was talking about the boys. We basically pointed to the woods and said, go play, see you for supper and oh yeah, carry a stick because your going to find a snake. My aunt told me how "old school" we were raising the boys and nobody did that anymore. Me, I was like, well what the heck do people do now days????? Raised them the same way I was raised. Okay, my mom used to say to stay clear of the woods but all us kids would go right off into for hours. Now, they call that "Free Ranging". Wierd huh? When he was 11 he would go do odd jobs for the neighbors and make money. All the neighbors would talk about how no kids can around looking for a job anymore. Society has gone so wrong.