727 slow 2-3 shift
#3148325
06/02/23 10:02 PM
06/02/23 10:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817 Eugene, Oregon
Secret Chimp
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817
Eugene, Oregon
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I've searched for this and couldn't quite find what I have going on, so apologies in advance if I missed something.
The 2-3 shift in my 67 Coronet's 727 has become kind of slow under heavier throttle. It doesn't flare, it doesn't hang, it just kind of sliiiiides from 2nd to 3rd over maybe a second or a second and a half. 1-2 is fine, and 2-3 doesn't feel strange when I'm driving like a normal person.
I last had the pan off about 5 years ago to throw in a B&M 10226 kit and did all of the band adjustments you usually do when you have the valve body off. Not entirely sure how many miles have passed since then, probably around 10k at most.
I have a Lokar-type cable instead of the old linkage - it is adjusted out to have full pressure at WOT.
I couldn't find anyone describing this particular behavior, only people with shift flares or with this behavior only when the trans is cold.
Should I just start with a fluid change (it's not a ton of miles, but it is old) or a filter/full band adjustment again, or am I more likely nearing the end of some friction material's life?
1967 Dodge Coronet Deluxe station wagon
1.03" T-bars, QA1 arms/rods, Cordoba/GM Metric/Volare brake & knuckle, XHDs, Hellwig rear sway, 318 Magnum w/ air gap, 727, 3.23s
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Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift
[Re: Secret Chimp]
#3148336
06/02/23 11:20 PM
06/02/23 11:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,555 Freeport IL USA
poorboy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Freeport IL USA
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Start with the fluid, filter, and band adjustment. it sounds like low pump pressure might be the problem, and the filter would be the 1st thing to do. You have not given us any idea how many miles are on the trans itself, it may be time for a rebuild. 100,000 - 125,000 is a lot of miles on the 67 drivetrains. Most didn't expect the vehicle to make it 10 years or 100,00k miles, the ones that did were truly rare. .
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Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift
[Re: Secret Chimp]
#3148375
06/03/23 11:05 AM
06/03/23 11:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,784 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 25,784
Rio Linda, CA
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It doesn't flare, it doesn't hang, it just kind of sliiiiides from 2nd to 3rd over maybe a second or a second and a half. 1-2 is fine, and 2-3 doesn't feel strange when I'm driving like a normal person. You're saying a "normal person" doesn't use heavy throttle? Problem is likely the front clutch, worn sealing rings or clutches worn.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#3148420
06/03/23 02:37 PM
06/03/23 02:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,388 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,388
north of coder
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i do not like those lokar cable kits. in my opinion, after adjusting many, then removing them for some other type of linkage, they are junk. chintzee brackets and cheap bicycle cable that stretches, causing adjustments to vary are my primary peeves. if needing a cable kick down, look into what mopar used on the later dakotas [?] or magnum pickups. a MUCH better design, and one that works as it should. just MY opinion. your mileage will vary..............
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Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift
[Re: poorboy]
#3148463
06/03/23 05:34 PM
06/03/23 05:34 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817 Eugene, Oregon
Secret Chimp
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817
Eugene, Oregon
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Start with the fluid, filter, and band adjustment. it sounds like low pump pressure might be the problem, and the filter would be the 1st thing to do. You have not given us any idea how many miles are on the trans itself, it may be time for a rebuild. 100,000 - 125,000 is a lot of miles on the 67 drivetrains. Most didn't expect the vehicle to make it 10 years or 100,00k miles, the ones that did were truly rare. . This one has 131k, so I was half-anticipating having to do that later this year. I do see some clutch stuff floating around on the dipstick, though, so maybe a filter will buy me another year or two.
1967 Dodge Coronet Deluxe station wagon
1.03" T-bars, QA1 arms/rods, Cordoba/GM Metric/Volare brake & knuckle, XHDs, Hellwig rear sway, 318 Magnum w/ air gap, 727, 3.23s
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Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift
[Re: Secret Chimp]
#3148468
06/03/23 06:14 PM
06/03/23 06:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,717 Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,717
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
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Start with the fluid, filter, and band adjustment. it sounds like low pump pressure might be the problem, and the filter would be the 1st thing to do. You have not given us any idea how many miles are on the trans itself, it may be time for a rebuild. 100,000 - 125,000 is a lot of miles on the 67 drivetrains. Most didn't expect the vehicle to make it 10 years or 100,00k miles, the ones that did were truly rare. . This one has 131k, so I was half-anticipating having to do that later this year. I do see some clutch stuff floating around on the dipstick, though, so maybe a filter will buy me another year or two. The longer you drive it the more it's going to cost. Hard parts cost more than a simple rebuild. A very good trans builder once told me that the first time a trans doesn't feel right çall a tow truck. Do not drive it until it won't move any further.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift
[Re: moparx]
#3148491
06/03/23 09:00 PM
06/03/23 09:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,348 Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 15,348
Omaha Ne
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i do not like those lokar cable kits. in my opinion, after adjusting many, then removing them for some other type of linkage, they are junk. chintzee brackets and cheap bicycle cable that stretches, causing adjustments to vary are my primary peeves. if needing a cable kick down, look into what mopar used on the later dakotas [?] or magnum pickups. a MUCH better design, and one that works as it should. just MY opinion. your mileage will vary.............. I flippin hate LOKAR cables, absolute junk along with their shitters
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Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift
[Re: Secret Chimp]
#3148514
06/03/23 11:41 PM
06/03/23 11:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,555 Freeport IL USA
poorboy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,555
Freeport IL USA
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Start with the fluid, filter, and band adjustment. it sounds like low pump pressure might be the problem, and the filter would be the 1st thing to do. You have not given us any idea how many miles are on the trans itself, it may be time for a rebuild. 100,000 - 125,000 is a lot of miles on the 67 drivetrains. Most didn't expect the vehicle to make it 10 years or 100,00k miles, the ones that did were truly rare. . This one has 131k, so I was half-anticipating having to do that later this year. I do see some clutch stuff floating around on the dipstick, though, so maybe a filter will buy me another year or two. If you are really lucky, the filter change may buy you a few months at the cost of a more expensive rebuild, but at 131K, you are probably past an inexpensive rebuild anyway. Seeing clutch material floating around on the dipstick means the trans needs to be rebuilt now. You have used it up.
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Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift
[Re: TJP]
#3148589
06/04/23 01:12 PM
06/04/23 01:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,388 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,388
north of coder
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i do not like those lokar cable kits. in my opinion, after adjusting many, then removing them for some other type of linkage, they are junk. chintzee brackets and cheap bicycle cable that stretches, causing adjustments to vary are my primary peeves. if needing a cable kick down, look into what mopar used on the later dakotas [?] or magnum pickups. a MUCH better design, and one that works as it should. just MY opinion. your mileage will vary.............. I flippin hate LOKAR cables, absolute junk along with their shitters if i said what i really thought about that stuff, i would more than likely get a "vacation".
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Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift
[Re: moparx]
#3149405
06/07/23 02:14 PM
06/07/23 02:14 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817 Eugene, Oregon
Secret Chimp
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817
Eugene, Oregon
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I found the filter wasn't actually plugged with loose material, it looks like I broke a single plate some time ago when I locked up the rear tires with manual 1st engaged a year-ish prior. The little chunks got partly pulled up the pickup tube. I think I will be fine for one more summer of chuggin'. I'm only running a stock Magnum 318 with a carb conversion so I'm not asking much of the trans right now. I will come back crying if you all are right Given I need to rebuild soon either way, what components are reasonable to upgrade in a '67 TF that only sees street use? A lot of kits I've looked up say they are only intended for '71 and up, which I understand are when they added a lot of Hemi-grade improvements to the whole line or something to that effect. Should I just get an entirely newer 727 or 904 instead?
1967 Dodge Coronet Deluxe station wagon
1.03" T-bars, QA1 arms/rods, Cordoba/GM Metric/Volare brake & knuckle, XHDs, Hellwig rear sway, 318 Magnum w/ air gap, 727, 3.23s
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Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift
[Re: Secret Chimp]
#3149492
06/07/23 07:12 PM
06/07/23 07:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,555 Freeport IL USA
poorboy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 10,555
Freeport IL USA
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If you are really going to try to squeeze a few months out of it, refill it with ford ATF.
Years ago I bough a very cheap an old Dodge wagon. We used it to drag our dirt track car to the track (a couple miles from home). One day it wouldn't move. I dropped the pan, replaced the filter and adjusted the bands and by my transmission guy's advice, put the Ford fluid in it. The old wagon did the job all racing season, that last week was pretty questionable, but it got the job done. I scrapped the old wagon, the transmission wasn't its only problem.
A 1967 318 powered car with a 727 that is only street driven only needs a stock rebuild. The 1st round went 131K miles in 56 years, do you expect to put 131K more miles on it? The only upgrade that i would consider might be the part throttle kickdown, but I think you need a newer valve body to do that.
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Re: 727 slow 2-3 shift
[Re: poorboy]
#3149729
06/08/23 02:34 PM
06/08/23 02:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,388 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,388
north of coder
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i'm not completely sure, but i "think" the part throttle kick down assembly can be installed simply by bolting on the assembly in place of the flat plate covering the 1-2 and 2-3 shift valves. of course this assembly will not fit pushbutton valve bodies, but i'm pretty sure this can be added to 68 and up units. perhaps JK will chime in and clarify this.
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