Re: Piston deck height
[Re: boomerodell]
#3136468
04/08/23 12:46 PM
04/08/23 12:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,866 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,866
Pattison Texas
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Is there any disadvantage to running the piston .013 out of the hole vs lets say a true zero deck? Finally making some progress with a 400/511 build and the finished deck is 9.969. It needed cut .011 to be square. We were planning to run the Icon 837.033. Or the 440 source piston. Also Icon? Anyway that piston listed is .002 above a stock deck I believe. If my math is correct with our block, we would be approx. .013 out of the hole. So with a .060 head gasket quench would be .047 and compression ratio 11.15. Or a .051 gasket would get us .038 quench and 11.35. Planning to run a small mix of race fuel the target compression ratio is 11:1. If the piston deck isn't an issue what quench would be preferred with the two different gaskets? Or my only other option to get a zero deck would be custom piston. Mine is .015 out on my 440 source 400/512, I run a .052 Cometic gasket, all is good
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Piston deck height
[Re: Stanton]
#3136591
04/08/23 08:55 PM
04/08/23 08:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,089 Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,089
Michigan
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I posted a similar question a number of years back. I run the 440Source piston in a 528" stroker. The pistons were supposed to sit .009 in the hole and use a .039 head gasket for a quench of .048. However, after squaring the decks the slugs are .016 OT of the hole! The deck finish is not suitable for MLS gaskets and the thickest composition I could find at the time were Felpro 1105's at .052 thick. Do the math and that's .036 quench . Virtually every reply to my post said that wasn't enough, that the pistons would likely kiss the head. But since I had virtually no other option I installed them.
Keeping the issue in the back of my mind I continued searching and came across SCE Gaskets who make a broad range of thicknesses of solid copper gaskets. But pretty dam pricey !!
Jump ahead to present day - the motor still hasn't been fired but the day is coming. At the Toronto Motorama I quizzed Nick (of Nick's Garage fame on Youtube) about my issue. His (very hesitant) opinion was to run it. However, with so much invested I've decided to bite the bullet and I ordered the SCE gaskets - .062" thick which will yield .046 quench. If nothing else, I'm sleeping better !! Now my pushrods might be .010 too short !! Not sure if I saw or replied to your earlier post. But real world experience as opposed to some of the “opinions” posted here in the past. We have run a set tight as .026” piston to head and it resulted in a clean piston at the closest spots relative to the chamber. Just a slight edge left on the piston from the chamber. And no, it never locked up or pinched the top ring. Super Stock car with a wedge, turning 6700.
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Re: Piston deck height
[Re: '72CudaRacer]
#3136628
04/09/23 12:22 AM
04/09/23 12:22 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,886 Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,886
Ontario, Canada
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Not sure if I saw or replied to your earlier post. But real world experience as opposed to some of the “opinions” posted here in the past. We have run a set tight as .026” piston to head and it resulted in a clean piston at the closest spots relative to the chamber. Just a slight edge left on the piston from the chamber. And no, it never locked up or pinched the top ring.
well I’ve often wondered how anything could fill that gap. .003 bearing clearance, maybe another .0005 in the pin. The ret would have to be expansion and piston rock and I can’t imagine the piston rocking that much. Anyhow, it’s not a race motor so a tad less quench won’t be noticeable.
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Re: Piston deck height
[Re: Stanton]
#3136646
04/09/23 03:31 AM
04/09/23 03:31 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,089 Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,089
Michigan
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Not sure if I saw or replied to your earlier post. But real world experience as opposed to some of the “opinions” posted here in the past. We have run a set tight as .026” piston to head and it resulted in a clean piston at the closest spots relative to the chamber. Just a slight edge left on the piston from the chamber. And no, it never locked up or pinched the top ring.
well I’ve often wondered how anything could fill that gap. .003 bearing clearance, maybe another .0005 in the pin. The ret would have to be expansion and piston rock and I can’t imagine the piston rocking that much. Anyhow, it’s not a race motor so a tad less quench won’t be noticeable. Agreed.
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Re: Piston deck height
[Re: Stanton]
#3136940
04/10/23 11:31 AM
04/10/23 11:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,070 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,070
U.S.S.A.
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I posted a similar question a number of years back. I run the 440Source piston in a 528" stroker. The pistons were supposed to sit .009 in the hole and use a .039 head gasket for a quench of .048. However, after squaring the decks the slugs are .016 OT of the hole! The deck finish is not suitable for MLS gaskets and the thickest composition I could find at the time were Felpro 1105's at .052 thick. Do the math and that's .036 quench . Virtually every reply to my post said that wasn't enough, that the pistons would likely kiss the head. But since I had virtually no other option I installed them.
We ran the enginemasters engine at .035 ... might have been closer?? , no issues with the pistons hitting, I'd run it.
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Piston deck height
[Re: boomerodell]
#3137595
04/13/23 02:07 AM
04/13/23 02:07 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Excellent thanks for all the replies. I wanted to end up with .040 or so quench. Just looked at Cometic's site and they list a .056 gasket. That will give me .043 quench, that may be a good compromise between the other two thickness and a little piece of mind. Make sure the gasket bore size is a bit larger than your actual bore. I made that mistake, and forgot there is a chamfer at the top of the bore.
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