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Reusing rings after hone #3129398
03/14/23 04:58 PM
03/14/23 04:58 PM
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Kentucky
clovis Offline OP
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What is the downside to reusing rings after freshing the crosshatch in a cylinder? The motor has not seen a lot of use but there are some scratches in the cylinders and on the pistons (nothing that catches a nail). I'm not sure if the motor had got hot or if there wasn't enough clearance. By my bore gauge they show .005 and they are forged pistons. The top ring are dyke if that matters.


'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: clovis] #3129437
03/14/23 06:33 PM
03/14/23 06:33 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Originally Posted by clovis
What is the downside to reusing rings after freshing the crosshatch in a cylinder? The motor has not seen a lot of use but there are some scratches in the cylinders and on the pistons (nothing that catches a nail). I'm not sure if the motor had got hot or if there wasn't enough clearance. By my bore gauge they show .005 and they are forged pistons. The top ring are dyke if that matters.


An old truck or a race engine?

How much leakage is acceptable?


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: clovis] #3129450
03/14/23 07:13 PM
03/14/23 07:13 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Are you feeling lucky work shruggy
Are the dykes top rings moly coated iron or stainless or tool steel? What about the 2nd rings resealing work

I wouldn't tsk But Murphy loves peeing on me rant shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: Cab_Burge] #3129486
03/14/23 09:30 PM
03/14/23 09:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553
Kentucky
clovis Offline OP
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I bought the motor complete so I’m not sure about the ring material. Here are a few pictures of a piston and a couple of cylinders.
It is a street/strip engine but mostly strip.

BF28EED3-5550-4833-B90F-A46C28993BD2.jpegFFC426E7-2119-4DF1-BEC5-4852A7217357.jpegFCA6A5E1-159F-44BD-95E1-3EC105FF8325.jpegAEBC8852-09DD-4FF0-969F-276938205C2E.jpeg
Last edited by clovis; 03/14/23 09:32 PM.

'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: clovis] #3129490
03/14/23 09:35 PM
03/14/23 09:35 PM
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Super Spudsville
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That thing needs a real hone job and some rings. If the bores are round a good hone job and maybe have the pistons coated. shruggy


STOP POTATO HATE!
Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: Mr PotatoHead] #3129523
03/15/23 12:09 AM
03/15/23 12:09 AM
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fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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Use a dingle ball hone put the engine back together with old gaskets. Get a leak down tester and if 96% or better (or 4% whichever you want to say it) let er eat. (With new head gaskets of course)

Last edited by cudaman1969; 03/15/23 12:11 AM.
Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: clovis] #3129531
03/15/23 01:27 AM
03/15/23 01:27 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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That corrosion may not seal well unless you hone it out shruggy work
Corrosion like that is not uncommon on motors that have sat a lot in high humidity area, it, the moisture condensation, gets into the cylinders through the exhaust valves whiney
Let us know what you do and he results, that will help others on here also scope


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: Cab_Burge] #3129548
03/15/23 07:10 AM
03/15/23 07:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553
Kentucky
clovis Offline OP
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As soon as I got it home I did a compression and leak down on it. With a Mopar 590 cam in it, I got compression readings from 135 to 150, with most being closer to the 150. The leak down was between 90-92. Both readings were with the engine ice cold sitting on the shop floor. It’s an interesting engine to say the least, it has BME 426 rods, JE pistons(sit about .007 out of the hole), Dyke rings, a Crankshaft Specialist 3.388 crank, crank studs, O-ringed block, Milodon external oiling, it looks to have all the oil mods to the block. The story I got was the guys grandfather had it built by Herb McCandless quite a few years back and wasn’t run until the last couple of years and only for a short time, then they decided to go LS Turbo. When I saw the oil mods and Crankshaft Specialist crank, I thought who knows maybe it is.

At this point my plan is to hone it 180-500. I have a Lisle 1500 rigid hone with 80/180/280/500 stones. The top ring measured .016. I am just trying to decide whether I need to go ahead and order rings and if I do what ring package do I go with.

26D65D4A-058E-48D8-B65E-650A033849C2.jpeg

'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: clovis] #3129553
03/15/23 07:59 AM
03/15/23 07:59 AM
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Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
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If you run a 180 through it, I would put new rings in it. That's pretty rough, and will be like breaking in again, look at the second ring face with another break in the taper will probably be gone. Then you will get into a loss of oil control.

It really depends on what you want to do here. It really needs to be bored, honed to be put back to perfect. But if the intent is not to do that, 500 the bores and put it all back together. Anything in between that would just be a waste of time/money in my opinion.

One more thing, 500 will need considerable pressure, if using an expandable hone.

Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: B1MAXX] #3129565
03/15/23 08:43 AM
03/15/23 08:43 AM
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lewtot184 Offline
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correct me on this if i'm wrong, but i always thought a dykes type ring didn't have a long lifespan? maybe there's been some material changes or something thru the years to add lifespan, i don't know? so could you be jumping thru a hoop for wore out parts? i'd ask a ring manufacturer this question.

Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: clovis] #3129566
03/15/23 08:52 AM
03/15/23 08:52 AM
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Pattison Texas
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I would rather leave it alone & run it as it is than honing it with a lisle hone, you will ruin the bores with that hone


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: CSK] #3129585
03/15/23 10:52 AM
03/15/23 10:52 AM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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iagree I'd put that back together as-is and run it. twocents


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
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'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
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Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3129598
03/15/23 12:06 PM
03/15/23 12:06 PM
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Michigan
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Can you post a better picture of the top ring - closer to the face and an angle shot at the gap?

Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: A727Tflite] #3129668
03/15/23 03:36 PM
03/15/23 03:36 PM
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Kentucky
clovis Offline OP
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I'll get some pictures tonight and post them.


'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: clovis] #3129749
03/15/23 09:00 PM
03/15/23 09:00 PM
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Kentucky
clovis Offline OP
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I noticed when I pulled the ring that the piston is cut for the ring, so I guess you have to use a dyke ring or have the piston cut to remove the ledge in the groove.

D41F7ECB-D9E5-424E-B7EF-4380F3CFF084.jpeg31BC0D5E-9156-446C-9279-8CCB0AF23157.jpegEB5ADE35-0D98-4A86-B8C8-018BDBB55B46.jpeg03D1CCB9-F323-4619-8F8C-7F09E61263BB.jpeg

'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: clovis] #3129755
03/15/23 09:39 PM
03/15/23 09:39 PM
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PA
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Scully Offline
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That hone job was done by a hack, cross hatch is wayyyyyyy off and I'm sure the roundness and taper are wayyyyyyy off. The second ring pictured is near the end of it's life regardless of how much time it has on it. You're not going to fix those cylinders with a lisle or a ball hone, if you're running a steel top ring a profilometer and or a very experienced hone operator is needed to get the proper RVK. It'll run if you slap it back together but why have all the time and money you have into it and then skip on the most important part of building a good race engine. If you were closer to Pa, I could fix it for you but I'm sure you have a good race shop somewhere in your area.

Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: Scully] #3129758
03/15/23 09:52 PM
03/15/23 09:52 PM
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Last pic, 2nd ring, says it all.

The most you would accomplish by using a hand held hone is to see if the bore etching comes out quickly. If it does, then a machine hone you will fix you right up assuming the p to wall is ok after.

Last edited by Transman; 03/15/23 09:56 PM.
Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: A727Tflite] #3129772
03/15/23 10:58 PM
03/15/23 10:58 PM
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
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Why did you tear it down? Was there a problem? You say the pistons have .005" clearance. Is that enough for those? If the piston mfg says they need more that would be good. I'm under the impression that money matters to you. If that's the case, I would find a guy with a Sunnen CK-10 (or equal) and some 220 stones, give it 20 strokes (more if you need more piston cleanance) and then 6 strokes with 400 grit for plateau. This won't get the corrosion out but it won't matter as much as you think. The present hone job is a hack. If you are on an unlimited budget I would make different recommendations.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: rickseeman] #3129778
03/15/23 11:30 PM
03/15/23 11:30 PM
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Scully Offline
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Originally Posted by rickseeman
Why did you tear it down? Was there a problem? You say the pistons have .005" clearance. Is that enough for those? If the piston mfg says they need more that would be good. I'm under the impression that money matters to you. If that's the case, I would find a guy with a Sunnen CK-10 (or equal) and some 220 stones, give it 20 strokes (more if you need more piston cleanance) and then 6 strokes with 400 grit for plateau. This won't get the corrosion out but it won't matter as much as you think. The present hone job is a hack. If you are on an unlimited budget I would make different recommendations.

In this situation on my CK I would use the soft 220 grit 512 stones with very light pressure and check for roundness and taper very frequently as the taper can get out of hand fast if it's not already and then the 400 818/820 as you said. With a lot of TLC it'll still be a thou bigger than it is now and you may not get all of the deep hack job out of there but it'll be much better than now.

Re: Reusing rings after hone [Re: Scully] #3129784
03/16/23 12:08 AM
03/16/23 12:08 AM
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Coat the piston skirts, have it machine honed, new set of rings. I don't think that that size ring is going to be cost prohibitive. If they were 0.8mm to 0.5mm rings, I could understand wanting to re-use them.


Alan Jones
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