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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body
[Re: second 70]
#3125352
02/28/23 03:59 PM
02/28/23 03:59 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,179
clarks summit pa
73cuda340
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,179
clarks summit pa
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I haven't had a chance to get anymore measurements yet, but I've been looking at everyone else's hemi pictures that were posted and they all appear to sit almost perfectly level. Mine definitely sits lower in the back. I'm not sure how to check if that's what's causing it to sit high in the front. It's the same transmission crossmember that came in the car when I bought it and it has a brand new transmission mount. I checked the measurements on the crossmember and according to brewers performance 's website, it's a 70-72 ebody or 71-72 b body crossmember and my car is a 73. I'm not sure if they had a different height since the transmission mounts are listed the same for 70-74 e bodies.
1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip,
(JA5) Silver Frost Metallic
1973 Challenger Rallye 340
1985 W150 Power Ram prospector
1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body
[Re: 73cuda340]
#3125415
02/28/23 07:17 PM
02/28/23 07:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,419
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,419
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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You need to get the measurements. Not sure on the differences on the transmission cross member 70-72 vs 73-74. There was a difference on K-frames B to E body on gear box mounting. Even though they will bolt in there is a difference. Just maybe thats a part of your issue?
Last edited by NITROUSN; 02/28/23 07:18 PM.
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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body
[Re: NITROUSN]
#3125425
02/28/23 08:45 PM
02/28/23 08:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,179
clarks summit pa
73cuda340
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,179
clarks summit pa
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I called Al after I first saw the steering box issue since that was my first thought, that maybe I got someone else's k member out of a b body. He said I got the same one that I sent him. I pulled the steering box and k member back out and I'm going to reinstall everything and then I'll get some more measurements.
1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip,
(JA5) Silver Frost Metallic
1973 Challenger Rallye 340
1985 W150 Power Ram prospector
1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body
[Re: 73cuda340]
#3129086
03/13/23 03:28 PM
03/13/23 03:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 781
MD
HEMI472
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 781
MD
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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body
[Re: HEMI472]
#3129170
03/13/23 08:53 PM
03/13/23 08:53 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,179
clarks summit pa
73cuda340
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,179
clarks summit pa
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No, not yet. I've been busy at work, so I haven't had any time lately. I will update this when I do I hopefully the next couple of days.
1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip,
(JA5) Silver Frost Metallic
1973 Challenger Rallye 340
1985 W150 Power Ram prospector
1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body
[Re: 73cuda340]
#3130954
03/20/23 09:25 PM
03/20/23 09:25 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,179
clarks summit pa
73cuda340
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,179
clarks summit pa
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I took some measurements as accurately as I could laying underneath the car and according to tti's chart, it's sitting just about 1/4 " high on the A measurement, but the C measurement is right on. I can't accurately measure the B measurement due to the valve cover hitting on the passenger side not letting the engine sit where it naturally would. The engine does have a very noticeable lean downward on the transmission side, so I don't know how to determine if that is caused by it being too high in the front or if it's due to something being too low on the transmission mount side.
1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip,
(JA5) Silver Frost Metallic
1973 Challenger Rallye 340
1985 W150 Power Ram prospector
1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body
[Re: NITROUSN]
#3137393
04/12/23 02:36 PM
04/12/23 02:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,179
clarks summit pa
73cuda340
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,179
clarks summit pa
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I ended up jacking the transmission up, and it only raised the back of the engine up, but did nothing to the front. Even with the transmission jacked up, the engine is still very low in the back. Does the engine actually sit level in the car? I've looked everywhere for a transmission centerline measurement and called where I bought the mount from, but I can't find anything.
1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip,
(JA5) Silver Frost Metallic
1973 Challenger Rallye 340
1985 W150 Power Ram prospector
1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body
[Re: 73cuda340]
#3137411
04/12/23 03:09 PM
04/12/23 03:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,646
Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,646
Stuttgart, Arkansas
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I've never put a World Products block in a car. But I tried to put an Indy block in a car and had an experience like yours. I have 3 blocks here. One Street hemi, one mega block and a new KB. All three are different widths at the motor brackets. .600" variance between the 3. I don't know what would happen if you put 2 of those blocks in a car. I have put a 1995 hemi block in a 70 Superbird with Schmacher mounts on a wedge K-frame using Stage V valve covers. (Stage V made your valve covers for Ray Barton.) It was tight but everything fit perfect. (I think I had to use bolts instead of studs in the value covers to get them on.) I think the Schumacher mounts were one of the best fitting/performing parts of the 200 or so parts I bought to do the car. Someday I will find a set of real prints for a Hemi block and then I can tell you the problem.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body
[Re: rickseeman]
#3137415
04/12/23 03:24 PM
04/12/23 03:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,646
Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,646
Stuttgart, Arkansas
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I take that back, I have 4 blocks. The other was a Callies. I think it was the narrowest. (I wish I would have written those 4 numbers down.) It seems nobody has a set of REAL prints from Ma Mopar or all these blocks wouldn't be different. (Russ said, oh yes the mounts are in the same place.) Yeah, right.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body
[Re: 73cuda340]
#3137452
04/12/23 04:58 PM
04/12/23 04:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,076
Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,076
Michigan
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I ended up jacking the transmission up, and it only raised the back of the engine up, but did nothing to the front. Even with the transmission jacked up, the engine is still very low in the back. Does the engine actually sit level in the car? I've looked everywhere for a transmission centerline measurement and called where I bought the mount from, but I can't find anything. I’ll bet you a dozen donuts that a RB/B engine crank centerline would be very close if not he same as a Hemi. Same for the angle. Reason being the trans doesn’t know what engine it’s attached to and driveshaft angles should be the same between all the engines. And in production we had to worry about steering column clearance, radiator, hood, etc. Find a similar car with a RB/B engine and work from there.
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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body
[Re: A727Tflite]
#3137459
04/12/23 05:32 PM
04/12/23 05:32 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,179
clarks summit pa
73cuda340
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,179
clarks summit pa
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The TTI headers chart lists that small block, big block and hemus all have the same crankshaft centerline. I'm trying to find the centerline of the transmission so that I can determine whether the engine leaning back is due to the engine being too high, if the transmission is too low or perhaps both. The measurements I took for the crankshaft were pretty close, just slightly high. I'm not sure if the engine needs to sit lower or the transmission needs to be higher to correct this and other clearance issues.
1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip,
(JA5) Silver Frost Metallic
1973 Challenger Rallye 340
1985 W150 Power Ram prospector
1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body
[Re: rickseeman]
#3137460
04/12/23 05:36 PM
04/12/23 05:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,179
clarks summit pa
73cuda340
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,179
clarks summit pa
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I've never put a World Products block in a car. But I tried to put an Indy block in a car and had an experience like yours. I have 3 blocks here. One Street hemi, one mega block and a new KB. All three are different widths at the motor brackets. .600" variance between the 3. I don't know what would happen if you put 2 of those blocks in a car. I have put a 1995 hemi block in a 70 Superbird with Schmacher mounts on a wedge K-frame using Stage V valve covers. (Stage V made your valve covers for Ray Barton.) It was tight but everything fit perfect. (I think I had to use bolts instead of studs in the value covers to get them on.) I think the Schumacher mounts were one of the best fitting/performing parts of the 200 or so parts I bought to do the car. Someday I will find a set of real prints for a Hemi block and then I can tell you the problem. That's interesting that they're that far off. I hope that mine isn't one of the ones that are way off. I've always wondered to myself if my block was machined wrong due to all of the other issues with it.
1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip,
(JA5) Silver Frost Metallic
1973 Challenger Rallye 340
1985 W150 Power Ram prospector
1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body
[Re: 73cuda340]
#3137472
04/12/23 06:40 PM
04/12/23 06:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,646
Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,646
Stuttgart, Arkansas
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I'm not saying your block is machined wrong. I'm saying the aftermarket blocks are ALL machined wrong. Ma Mopar needs to send me a REAL set of prints.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body
[Re: 73cuda340]
#3137473
04/12/23 06:44 PM
04/12/23 06:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,076
Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,076
Michigan
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The TTI headers chart lists that small block, big block and hemus all have the same crankshaft centerline. I'm trying to find the centerline of the transmission so that I can determine whether the engine leaning back is due to the engine being too high, if the transmission is too low or perhaps both. The measurements I took for the crankshaft were pretty close, just slightly high. I'm not sure if the engine needs to sit lower or the transmission needs to be higher to correct this and other clearance issues. Put a call out on this site for the measurement from the center of the output shaft to the floorpan and output shaft center to one rocker sill weld flange. That should get you close.
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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body
[Re: A727Tflite]
#3137474
04/12/23 06:58 PM
04/12/23 06:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,179
clarks summit pa
73cuda340
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,179
clarks summit pa
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I posted a question on here a couple of days ago, but still no response. I even tried contacting brewer's performance but they couldn't give me any info either
Last edited by 73cuda340; 04/12/23 07:04 PM.
1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip,
(JA5) Silver Frost Metallic
1973 Challenger Rallye 340
1985 W150 Power Ram prospector
1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body
[Re: 73cuda340]
#3137501
04/12/23 08:14 PM
04/12/23 08:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,076
Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,076
Michigan
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I posted a question on here a couple of days ago, but still no response. I even tried contacting brewer's performance but they couldn't give me any info either Just a suggestion as some people might be away, PM the guys with the Hemi E Bodies that have already posted in this thread.
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