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Re: Piston Height
[Re: B1duster]
#3123889
02/23/23 01:01 AM
02/23/23 01:01 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,362
Out of the State of Confusion
blue_stocker
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,362
Out of the State of Confusion
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Be careful about the fire ring protruding into the bore or inside of the combustion chamber, especially with a 1009 gasket. You might be better off to look into the Cometic gaskets and insure the chamber/bore/fire ring doesn't bite you! Just a thought...
Last edited by blue_stocker; 02/23/23 11:12 AM.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
Freedom must be repurchased by every new generation
General Daniel Jones, WW2 Tuskegee Airmen
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Re: Piston Height
[Re: Wicked49670dart]
#3123894
02/23/23 02:57 AM
02/23/23 02:57 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
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What bore size is your block? I build a lot of 400 stroker motors, only one ended up with a 4.350 bore , all the rest where bigger, 4.360,4.375 and 4.380 to get the bores straight. I've used different head gaskets on them depending on which heads and desire compression ratio, I have used a lot of the stock Fel Pro 440 composition head gaskets on aluminum heads and pump gas. I'll look that number up tomorrow and try to remember to add it on here, it is plenty big on the bore size 
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Piston Height
[Re: Wicked49670dart]
#3123911
02/23/23 09:54 AM
02/23/23 09:54 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,871
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,871
Ontario, Canada
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If that's a closed chamber head then you're definitely going to be too tight. The .051 gaskets from 440Source are the least expensive you'll find. I'm pretty sure they're made by Mahle but don't quote me.
Last edited by Stanton; 02/23/23 10:01 AM.
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Re: Piston Height
[Re: Stanton]
#3123947
02/23/23 12:24 PM
02/23/23 12:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,021
NY
B1duster
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,021
NY
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Re: Piston Height
[Re: Wicked49670dart]
#3123953
02/23/23 12:38 PM
02/23/23 12:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
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How would the thicker 1105 affect Quench? Thanks for everyone's help on this, Matt
Add whatever the added thickness to your current measurement , as long as your are less than .045 you should still get the quench/squish benefit.
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Piston Height
[Re: Wicked49670dart]
#3123954
02/23/23 12:43 PM
02/23/23 12:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
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I'm still not sure why, but .035" P-H appears to be the closest that any auto engine can stand (really tiny engines with 50mm bore, etc. go down to .025").
Even if the engine runs well, the light contact under high load and temperature crushes the top ring land down a few thousandths, capturing the compression ring so that it can't expand under combustion pressure. Fix: surgical lathe work on the ring land, or new pistons.
Using too wide P-H may not increase knock immediately as you go bigger (depending on chamber shape, etc.), but the quench is reduced, very little after .060" and gone by .090".
HTH
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Piston Height
[Re: polyspheric]
#3123958
02/23/23 12:50 PM
02/23/23 12:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
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I'm still not sure why, but .035" P-H appears to be the closest that any auto engine can stand (really tiny engines with 50mm bore, etc. go down to .025").
Even if the engine runs well, the light contact under high load and temperature crushes the top ring land down a few thousandths, capturing the compression ring so that it can't expand under combustion pressure. Fix: surgical lathe work on the ring land, or new pistons.
Using too wide P-H may not increase knock immediately as you go bigger (depending on chamber shape, etc.), but the quench is reduced, very little after .060" and gone by .090".
HTH 
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Piston Height
[Re: Wicked49670dart]
#3124712
02/26/23 09:43 AM
02/26/23 09:43 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 292
NY
challenger451ci
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 292
NY
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Bore is 4.375. I will be using a plate Nitrous kit at 200 to 300 shot also. On my current 496 I had to machine tops of the piston .010 and ran 250 Nitrous shot, I used 1009 on my current 383/496 without any issues. Going with the 400/512 would the Felpro 1105 hold up to Nitrous as well as the Felpro 1009 did? I'll check to see if the Felpro 1009 hangs in the Bore . How would the thicker 1105 affect Quench? Thanks for everyone's help on this, Matt
The Fel-Pro 1009 should be OK for bore size, but I think it's going to be pretty timing sensitive with that tight of a quench on the spray. The Fel-Pro 1105 has a 4.590 bore, which I think is going to be too large for a 4.375" bore. I know they've been hard to get the last couple of years, but maybe see what Cometic can make you in an MLS gasket closer to your bore size that'll give you more quench.
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Re: Piston Height
[Re: challenger451ci]
#3124734
02/26/23 11:04 AM
02/26/23 11:04 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
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I disagree.
It's going to be less timing (knock) sensitive with that tight of a quench
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Piston Height
[Re: B1duster]
#3124824
02/26/23 04:06 PM
02/26/23 04:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
Wicked49670dart
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
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Its a 400/512, 440 Source kit. Had my machine shop check all parts. Trick Flow 270 CNC Max Wedged ports, Indy Max Wedge 4150 intake that Wilson manifold converted to 4500 and then ported the whole manifold. I'm using Milodon external pan with Mellings HV63 oil pump. Pro Systems 1150 Dominator carb, Bullet custom solid roller 268/276 669/649 with Allen Johnson roller lifters, this is what they recommend for a Nitrous cam for my engine. Induction Solutions 450 shot plate kit. I also just purchased a Pro Trans 727 with all billet shafts, aluminum front drum with a brake. Matt
Last edited by Wicked49670dart; 02/26/23 04:08 PM.
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Re: Piston Height
[Re: Wicked49670dart]
#3124832
02/26/23 04:56 PM
02/26/23 04:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,857
Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,857
Pattison Texas
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Stock block ? just on motor it will be past the HP for a stock block
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Piston Height
[Re: B1duster]
#3124928
02/26/23 11:44 PM
02/26/23 11:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
Wicked49670dart
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
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Block is a 73, ARP main studs with Hughes girdle. ARP head studs also. Steel caps. Same setup as my 496. H beam rods with 7/16 ARP 2000 rod bolts upgrade from 440 source. I did upgrade to the lighten crankshaft also.
Last edited by Wicked49670dart; 02/26/23 11:46 PM.
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