Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
383 used cam swap questions #3119605
02/07/23 01:49 PM
02/07/23 01:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 178
Idaho
B
boomerodell Offline OP
member
boomerodell  Offline OP
member
B

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 178
Idaho
Helping a friend do a cam swap in his 383. Currently has a 280/474 purple shaft. He picked up a used comp Nostalgia cam that is similar to the 284/484 cam. Looking for a little more aggressive idle is the reason for change. 4 speed 3.91 all manual B-body. L2315 flat top pistons. 800 Edelbrock, Performer RPM intake, 516 heads with smoothed up ports. Imo the cam should work well.

https://www.compcams.com/nostalgia-plus-239-246-hydraulic-flat-cam-for-chrysler-383-440.html


With this being a used cam, from a trusted source marked lifters accurately. I assume, to be safe, that a normal flat tappet break-in procedure be done with cam/lifter assy lube and break in oil?
Its not a major jump in size but, Should we worry about piston to valve clearance? Thanks

Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: boomerodell] #3119621
02/07/23 02:31 PM
02/07/23 02:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,929
Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
I Win
stumpy  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,929
Grand Prairie,Texas
I'd go with new lifters.Not that expensive.

Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: stumpy] #3119642
02/07/23 03:30 PM
02/07/23 03:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,763
A collage of whims
topside Offline
Too Many Posts
topside  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,763
A collage of whims
If it's an otherwise stock combo, with stock converter & AT and 3.23s, it's likely to be a bit soggy off idle, but will come on strongly above about 3,000 RPM.
Better to have a bit higher stall and/or more gear for that cam in a 383, especially at B-body weight.
Been there, done that. It's old technology, but if all the guy wants is a rumpity drive-in idle, it'll work.
A bit less duration and more lift would be better on the street, based on a street 406" SB I had. Still sounded healthy, but was more responsive off-idle.
I'd go with new EDM lifters; especially if the new cam doesn't have its lifters organized for the lobes they acted on.
That said, a buddy of mine has re-used a hyd FT cam & lifters in a subsequent street build with no problems.

Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: topside] #3119688
02/07/23 05:31 PM
02/07/23 05:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
Originally Posted by topside
If it's an otherwise stock combo, with stock converter & AT and 3.23s, it's likely to be a bit soggy off idle, but will come on strongly above about 3,000 RPM.
Better to have a bit higher stall and/or more gear for that cam in a 383, especially at B-body weight.
Been there, done that. It's old technology, but if all the guy wants is a rumpity drive-in idle, it'll work.
A bit less duration and more lift would be better on the street, based on a street 406" SB I had. Still sounded healthy, but was more responsive off-idle.
I'd go with new EDM lifters; especially if the new cam doesn't have its lifters organized for the lobes they acted on.
That said, a buddy of mine has re-used a hyd FT cam & lifters in a subsequent street build with no problems.


Original post says 3.91's with a 4 speed.


running up my post count some more .
Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: boomerodell] #3119691
02/07/23 05:33 PM
02/07/23 05:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
Originally Posted by boomerodell
Helping a friend do a cam swap in his 383. Currently has a 280/474 purple shaft. He picked up a used comp Nostalgia cam that is similar to the 284/484 cam. Looking for a little more aggressive idle is the reason for change. 4 speed 3.91 all manual B-body. L2315 flat top pistons. 800 Edelbrock, Performer RPM intake, 516 heads with smoothed up ports. Imo the cam should work well.

https://www.compcams.com/nostalgia-plus-239-246-hydraulic-flat-cam-for-chrysler-383-440.html


With this being a used cam, from a trusted source marked lifters accurately. I assume, to be safe, that a normal flat tappet break-in procedure be done with cam/lifter assy lube and break in oil?
Its not a major jump in size but, Should we worry about piston to valve clearance? Thanks


With how touchy flat tappet cams have been over the last 2 decades I wouldn't chance it ...

That said even with marked lifters from a trusted source I would do a standard cam break in anyways with break in lube and break in oil, there is no guarantee that the lifter to cam geometry is the same between the 2 seasoned blocks so treat it like a new cam break in.


running up my post count some more .
Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: JohnRR] #3119715
02/07/23 06:48 PM
02/07/23 06:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,763
A collage of whims
topside Offline
Too Many Posts
topside  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,763
A collage of whims
Oops, blew right past the trans & gear info - sorry, John...

Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: boomerodell] #3119727
02/07/23 07:51 PM
02/07/23 07:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,073
Benton, IL.
D
DaveRS23 Offline
Special needs idiot
DaveRS23  Offline
Special needs idiot
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,073
Benton, IL.
New lifters or have the used ones refaced if budget and time allows. With the crap shoot that new lifters have been the last few years, if I have a set of lifters that have ran a long time with no issues, I would rather have them refaced rather than gamble on new ones. twocents

When you install which ever lifters you choose, mark each lifter and with the push rods and rockers in place, spin the engine over with the plugs out and make SURE that all lifters rotate. If any don't, then swap them out to ones that rotate the fastest. Repeat as necessary till all the lifters rotate.


Master, again and still
Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: topside] #3119735
02/07/23 08:12 PM
02/07/23 08:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 178
Idaho
B
boomerodell Offline OP
member
boomerodell  Offline OP
member
B

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 178
Idaho
Just what I thought would be the recommendations! I did suggested getting new lifters. However he spoke with a few people that informed him about recent quality control and lack of. I guess flat tappet cam failures are the worst lately than ever before? Due to qc and materials. He's convinced that using the lifters that came with the cam is the better choice.

Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: boomerodell] #3119849
02/08/23 06:22 AM
02/08/23 06:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,391
Abilene, Texas
F
fastmark Offline
master
fastmark  Offline
master
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,391
Abilene, Texas
Originally Posted by boomerodell
Just what I thought would be the recommendations! I did suggested getting new lifters. However he spoke with a few people that informed him about recent quality control and lack of. I guess flat tappet cam failures are the worst lately than ever before? Due to qc and materials. He's convinced that using the lifters that came with the cam is the better choice.


I pulled a good used cam out of a 340 years ago. I checked all the lobes with a mic and all were good. Installed new lifters and it lasted about 500 miles before it flattened two lobes. Never again. I would not have any troubles pulling a good running cam and installing the same lifters on the same lobes. Especially with the quality of lifters today.

Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: fastmark] #3119863
02/08/23 09:12 AM
02/08/23 09:12 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,977
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
top fuel
B1MAXX  Offline
top fuel

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,977
Apollo, PA.
If you going to do anything with the old cam just put it back in with the old lifters. Thats the best chance to live. I have a few cams I have used over the years and they lived. I have a 408 in my Belvedere that was a completely new build, except the cam. The old 490 mopar solid off the shelf with matched lifters, it is alive and well. VR1 was all I used to fire it well there was assy grease used on lobes at installation.

Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: boomerodell] #3119866
02/08/23 09:29 AM
02/08/23 09:29 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 102
eastern L.I. ,NYC
K
kingdragon Offline
member
kingdragon  Offline
member
K

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 102
eastern L.I. ,NYC
I would use those old mopar lifters. I know it goes against working knowledge but used high quality overrides new low quality in my handbook. One thing, check the spring pressure and make sure its not too aggressive. The basics, moderate spring pressure, avoid idling and VR1 oil. Send her down the road. If you choose not to use the old lifters send them my way.


I only buy MADE IN USA.
Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: kingdragon] #3119913
02/08/23 12:28 PM
02/08/23 12:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,141
Central NC
gch Offline
master
gch  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,141
Central NC
Love the 280-.474 cam! Keep those lifter in order and should be able to sell it if you want to.

Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: gch] #3120939
02/12/23 02:55 PM
02/12/23 02:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 178
Idaho
B
boomerodell Offline OP
member
boomerodell  Offline OP
member
B

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 178
Idaho
Decided to go with the used lifters with the used cam. Got some vr1 and a bottle of Lucas break in additive. Seems to be a 50/50 chance either way.

But.... Have another question. For a quest to gain some compression in this little guy we wanted to go with a set of .022 steel shim head gaskets. The l2315 pistons are actually only down .005-008 in this engine. I used a feeler gauge and straight edge.(Probably not the most accurate method) however.... with piston to head clearance only being .027-.030 using 516 heads the shim gaskets wont work. Felpro 1009 will probably be the best choice. How did the factory get away with using steel shim gaskets with the earlier closed chamber heads? The pistons would have had to be a minimum .020 down to get a .040 clearance. Not to mention the actual size of those chambers varied so much these engine were probably way lower than the advertised ratios. We cc'd these head they are roughly 83-85. Just using the basic summit compression ratio calculator they could have been up to a point off. Am I thinking about this correctly?

Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: boomerodell] #3120942
02/12/23 03:24 PM
02/12/23 03:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
I Live Here
fourgearsavoy  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
If the pistons are only in the hole .008 I would go with the 1009 gaskets twocents

Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: fourgearsavoy] #3121075
02/13/23 07:13 AM
02/13/23 07:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,391
Abilene, Texas
F
fastmark Offline
master
fastmark  Offline
master
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,391
Abilene, Texas
I’d find the mathematical formula online and do the math with a calculator. I’ve found those plug in formulas can be off some.

Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: boomerodell] #3121118
02/13/23 11:57 AM
02/13/23 11:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
Originally Posted by boomerodell
Decided to go with the used lifters with the used cam. Got some vr1 and a bottle of Lucas break in additive. Seems to be a 50/50 chance either way.

But.... Have another question. For a quest to gain some compression in this little guy we wanted to go with a set of .022 steel shim head gaskets. The l2315 pistons are actually only down .005-008 in this engine. I used a feeler gauge and straight edge.(Probably not the most accurate method) however.... with piston to head clearance only being .027-.030 using 516 heads the shim gaskets wont work. Felpro 1009 will probably be the best choice. How did the factory get away with using steel shim gaskets with the earlier closed chamber heads? The pistons would have had to be a minimum .020 down to get a .040 clearance. Not to mention the actual size of those chambers varied so much these engine were probably way lower than the advertised ratios. We cc'd these head they are roughly 83-85. Just using the basic summit compression ratio calculator they could have been up to a point off. Am I thinking about this correctly?


The factory used an .021 shim gasket stock, the CH of those 2315's puts the pistons deeper than what you are measuring, they are a compromise piston to work with both the open chamber head and the closed chamber. If they really are only that deep then someone must have decked the block , are the numbers still on the ID pad in front of the pass side head ? The factory overstated compression ratios , a 69 4 bbl 383 is rated at 10.0 , it's more like 9.2 .


running up my post count some more .
Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: JohnRR] #3121177
02/13/23 03:03 PM
02/13/23 03:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
The original stock 383 and 426 W Mopar steel head gaskets were around 4.310 bore size or close to that bore size and .017 thick. The stock Mopar steel 440 head gaskets were around 4.440 bore size and .022 thick, maybe I have that info backwards on the thickness as I haven't been able to find any of the smaller bore size steel head gaskets in a long time shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: JohnRR] #3121329
02/13/23 10:58 PM
02/13/23 10:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 178
Idaho
B
boomerodell Offline OP
member
boomerodell  Offline OP
member
B

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 178
Idaho
The stampings are still on the pad. Yes the factory probably did over exaggerate the advertised umbers. We'll go with the 1009 gaskets to keep it safe, plus if the deck height is off it will give us more clearance for piston to head and valve. Thanks guys.

Re: 383 used cam swap questions [Re: boomerodell] #3121389
02/14/23 10:34 AM
02/14/23 10:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
Originally Posted by boomerodell
The stampings are still on the pad. Yes the factory probably did over exaggerate the advertised umbers. We'll go with the 1009 gaskets to keep it safe, plus if the deck height is off it will give us more clearance for piston to head and valve. Thanks guys.


and lower the compression ratio


running up my post count some more .






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1