Re: piston ring arrangement
[Re: mopar dave]
#3105583
12/26/22 03:11 AM
12/26/22 03:11 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 707 California
BigDaddy440
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 707
California
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Hey Dave, I think I can answer these questions. 1) Yes dimple faces upward. 2) Typically the oil expansion ring (bottom wavy ring) is non directional, but recently I've installed a few sets were the manufacturer actually instructed otherwise. In this case where the expansion ring comes together, an "arrow" is formed and that arrow should point up. The thin oil rings that fit above and below the wavy expansion ring are non-directional in nearly every application. In my Big Block Ford build video @41:04 I review this information: (entire video is indexed in the description) https://youtu.be/m5n9Xs1QwG0Side note: You mention that your top ring is gapped tighter than your 2nd ring. Is that a Hemi specific thing? I've never heard of anyone doing that. Typically, your top ring has the largest gap because it expands more due to increased heat near the combustion chamber. Be careful with that, it could be really bad news if the top ring ends come together. Dan (Also preparing to build a Gen 2 Hemi)
Last edited by BigDaddy440; 12/26/22 03:17 AM.
1969 A12 Roadrunner 1970 Plymouth Cuda 1968 Dodge Dart
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Re: piston ring arrangement
[Re: mopar dave]
#3105652
12/26/22 11:33 AM
12/26/22 11:33 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,110 Byron, NY
W.I.N. Racing
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,110
Byron, NY
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.018-.022 is in the ball park for a street strip application, but gap is typically material and application dependent, start boosting it the gap opens up. As far as location they all get staggered. I have a set location for each ring. Top at 6, o'clock, 2nd at 12, top oil at 10, bottom oil at 2. and the ring expander at 7, Every time without fail. I also verify my oil ring for min of .015. Been doing it this way for 40years.
'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60 '01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust, '05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list '60 Willys CJ5 '01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison '64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
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Re: piston ring arrangement
[Re: mopar dave]
#3105749
12/26/22 05:17 PM
12/26/22 05:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173
Bend,OR USA
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I follow the ring makers instructions on gapping and installing the rings. I have learned it is way better to have .0020+ more ring end gap than having .0001 to little I would not use a synthetic oil on a freshly bored and honed cylinder walls or on the pistons Petroleum based oil or ATF, no synthetic base lubes ever The only assembly lube I will use is on the flat tappet type cams, solid or hydraulic non roller lifters. On the lobes and on the bottom of the lifters, not on the sides of the lifters, oil them and the insides of the lifter bores. The motors run on oil, not on assembly lube, I do prime all my motors and spin them over while priming them before starting them
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/26/22 05:18 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: piston ring arrangement
[Re: mopar dave]
#3105825
12/26/22 10:45 PM
12/26/22 10:45 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 707 California
BigDaddy440
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 707
California
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I used the royal purple assembly lube on the bearings because the motor will be setting a few years before i get it running. I always prime my motors just before they run. Ring directions call for .0045/in. of bore on top ring and second ring .004-.008 more gap than top ring. Should the rings be dry on start up? A light coat of oil on your rings will help them move around in the ring-lands of your pistons and prevent any potential corrosion while sitting in your engine awaiting that first start up. Old school engine builders would dip a piston in oil (with the rings installed) before installing it into the cylinder during assembly, so those rings were soaked pretty good. Personally, I lightly coat my rings to promote easy of movement so they don't mar the pistons during install and assembly. I always coat my cylinders with a liberal amount of oil before installing the pistons into the block. When the engine is fired up, any oil up top will be burnt off and the rings will then do their job of keeping oil where it belongs (out of the combustion chamber).
1969 A12 Roadrunner 1970 Plymouth Cuda 1968 Dodge Dart
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Re: piston ring arrangement
[Re: mopar dave]
#3105881
12/27/22 11:21 AM
12/27/22 11:21 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,110 Byron, NY
W.I.N. Racing
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,110
Byron, NY
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Although I am a great fan of WD 40 (I use it for a multitude of things except food and cleaning glass) but WD 40 as a lubricant on the rings/skirts is pretty much the same as nothing. Typically I will take a qt of straight 30wgt. poke a hole thru the top with a pick, then just prior to putting the piston/rod in the bore I lube the rings/skirts liberally then slide it together. As for assembly lube (bearings) I use straight STP. These are practices I have always used and have served me well.
On a side note, WD 40 used as a parts cleaner is one of its many great uses, other than its more obvious/advertised uses. I haev used it to clean granite surfaces (Measurement instrument bases). a quick wash and wax of the Race truck in the pits.
'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60 '01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust, '05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list '60 Willys CJ5 '01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison '64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
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Re: piston ring arrangement
[Re: mopar dave]
#3105943
12/27/22 03:45 PM
12/27/22 03:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173
Bend,OR USA
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I used the royal purple assembly lube on the bearings because the motor will be setting a few years before i get it running. I always prime my motors just before they run. Ring directions call for .0045/in. of bore on top ring and second ring .004-.008 more gap than top ring. Should the rings be dry on start up? I'm old school and dip the pistons in a large tin coffee can of oil so I can see the wrist pin be submerged and move the rod around in the can to make sure the oil gets behind the rings and in and around the wrist pins I do let the piston drain by cocking it so the oil drips off the inside and outside of the piston hanging inside to top of the can and I move the rings around in the grooves to make sure they slide in and out and move around freely in the piston grooves and to make sure the oil that will drip out of the grooves while draining for 2 or more minutes while I install the previous pistons into the cylinders
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: piston ring arrangement
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3106089
12/28/22 11:04 AM
12/28/22 11:04 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 292 NY
challenger451ci
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 292
NY
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I've been using Total Seal Quick Seat on the last several builds with great results. Clean the bores with brake-kleen, wipe with WD-40 on a cloth, then wipe the bores dry with a lint free cloth. Apply Quick seat to the bores and they'll turn green if they're clean enough. I spread about a dime sized dot of oil on the skirts and drop em in. Get a load on the motor once it has some temperature in it to seat the rings. Done.
I may be doing it backwards, but I usually talk to Total Seal to get the recommended ring package for the application, then have Ross cut the ring grooves to Total Seal's spec.
Last edited by challenger451ci; 12/28/22 11:05 AM.
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Re: piston ring arrangement
[Re: challenger451ci]
#3106480
12/29/22 08:07 PM
12/29/22 08:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 693 Dunnellon, FL
longram60
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 693
Dunnellon, FL
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I've been using Total Seal Quick Seat on the last several builds with great results. Clean the bores with brake-kleen, wipe with WD-40 on a cloth, then wipe the bores dry with a lint free cloth. Apply Quick seat to the bores and they'll turn green if they're clean enough. I spread about a dime sized dot of oil on the skirts and drop em in. Get a load on the motor once it has some temperature in it to seat the rings. Done.
I may be doing it backwards, but I usually talk to Total Seal to get the recommended ring package for the application, then have Ross cut the ring grooves to Total Seal's spec. I used the Quick Seat on my stocker 4 years ago with gapless rings and a gas ported spacer ring. No other oil or lube. Worked out fine
1979 AMC Spirit, NHRA Q/SA
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