Re: How fast do you need to be to be competitive in S/ST?
[Re: dustyhof]
#310530
05/06/09 08:54 PM
05/06/09 08:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826 las vegas
70AARcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
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a 10.90 is a 10.90 at any speed..
ted siepel won Suger Gas at vegas national event with speed in the 120s
cut a light and run 10.90...
Tony
70 AARCuda Vitamin C 71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield) 71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas) 71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)
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Re: How fast do you need to be to be competitive in S/ST?
[Re: dustyhof]
#310532
05/06/09 09:08 PM
05/06/09 09:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,379 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,379
Las Vegas
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160 In Super Street you will see everything from small tire cars to full tube chassis cars. Cars running from 119 to 155+. Seriously there is not a magic number. Wish there was cause I would be all over that number like white on rice. I am choosing to run my car in S/ST at 160 so I can chase most all the time. I also may try S/C so I can be the slow car. For me it is simply a matter of being able to be on one end or the other the majority of the time , just a comfort level for me really. Kind of why I like to run the car all out at brackets as I am the faster car most of the time.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: How fast do you need to be to be competitive in S/ST?
[Re: dustyhof]
#310533
05/06/09 09:10 PM
05/06/09 09:10 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 34,937 S.E. South Dakota !
bigdad
Still Posting A Lot
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Still Posting A Lot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 34,937
S.E. South Dakota !
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MOST Super street cars TODAY are Capable of low 9's and 150 mph easy And the cars can go red at at track .. Knife to gun fight .. Most have a .15 or .20 package or less to turn on the win light Can you run it with a car that goes 10.85 @ 128 sure ,can you win ..sure But its a long,long,long weekend to take most often two hits at the tree for t/trials and one (if you are really good(lucky)more ) You would have to leave on Weds to be there Thursday to get thru Tech ..Sit till Friday If it rains ..Oh boy, they might send you to a mall parking lot to wait Been there done that tooo many times Divionals would not be as bad of a beating Long tow to most of them for you except Brainerd Heck , give it try ..racing is racing
The lips of fools bring them strife, and their mouths invite a beating.Proverbs 18:6
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Re: How fast do you need to be to be competitive in S/ST?
[Re: 70AARcuda]
#310536
05/06/09 09:32 PM
05/06/09 09:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,201 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,201
Park Forest, IL
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IF your car will go red on a Pro tree and run 10:90X, you will be competitive.
The faster cars are harder for you to judge at the stripe, but slower cars are not easy for them to judge either.
If your car runs the number and you treed your opponent you will win, no matter what your speed is.
Racers tend to be like lemmings. One guy runs 160 and the rest think they have to.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: How fast do you need to be to be competitive in S/ST?
[Re: slantzilla]
#310537
05/06/09 09:52 PM
05/06/09 09:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 34,937 S.E. South Dakota !
bigdad
Still Posting A Lot
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Still Posting A Lot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 34,937
S.E. South Dakota !
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Give it a try and report back to us !
Have fun too, thats all that matters
The lips of fools bring them strife, and their mouths invite a beating.Proverbs 18:6
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Re: How fast do you need to be to be competitive in S/ST?
[Re: slantzilla]
#310539
05/06/09 10:02 PM
05/06/09 10:02 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Super classes are usually dominated by light tube chassis cars that have massive tires and are throttle stopped to death. They leave go out 150' pause and then MPH you to death...Most are deadly consistent with .00 trees and dead on the number plus a thousandth or two...Anyone can have a good day but you will not win alot with a car that is on 10" tires and ladder bars against these type of cars..
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: wheelsup68dart]
#310543
05/06/09 11:15 PM
05/06/09 11:15 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: How fast do you need to be to be competitive in S/ST?
[Re: dustyhof]
#310544
05/06/09 11:16 PM
05/06/09 11:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,104 Wheels up, MO
nhramark
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,104
Wheels up, MO
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If you can get your car to run 10.90 on the throttle stop and cut a light on a .500 pro tree, go to a divisional race and give it a shot. You might get your head handed to you or you might do well and have a great time. I waffled for a long time about racing an NMCA event. I finally towed down to Memphis for the world finals in '06 and went to the semi-finals in open comp. (lost by .01) Went to their Chicago event in '07 and went 3 rounds before I ran into a problem and couldn't make the next round. Went to Memphis again in '07 and beat the reigning NMCA champ, a couple top ten guys, Don Bowles (of Jack Rousch racing), the new NMCA champ in the semi's, and finally lost to the former NMCA champ Jamie Rickman in the final round. Point is none of those NMCA guys ever heard of me before I took a few shots. Now they ALL know who I am. Who's to say you won't have similar results............go for it!
[image]http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/nhramark1/library/Racing[/image]
9.100 @ 150 mph
5.780 @ 120 mph
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Re: How fast do you need to be to be competitive in S/ST?
#310545
05/06/09 11:27 PM
05/06/09 11:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,379 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,379
Las Vegas
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Well if someone is moving 150' before going on the stop something is wrong or they aint trying to kill much. For instance the Hemi in the Cuda we were on the stop at .10, then back to WOT at around 4.1+-, the new engine on at .10 off at about 5.4+-. As for light, S/ST has a minimum of 2800lbs, my car is 2860, light is S/G and even more so S/C.
like I said before there is no perfect speed or competitve speed. You have to be abke to hit the tree and run the number period. most as stated set up for an 88 or so, but not all. If you know your car and combination you know where you can let off and run .90 on the nose. FWIW I know the Veags national event has been won by a car using a mechanical stop that couold barely run the number at 119ish. It's debateable who has the advantage, the fast or slow car, just like any other bracket racing. I find running my car all out I do much better chasing being the faster car and I see 25+ differences all the time.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: How fast do you need to be to be competitive in S/ST?
[Re: ChrisJohnston669]
#310550
05/07/09 09:35 AM
05/07/09 09:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448 Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
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Dustyhof, I've raced S/ST for 10 years, over 40 NHRA Divisionals, and 12 or so Nationals. I'm not one of the best, but I know all the best racers, and I know what it takes to win.
The car you use to compete in the class is not important. Knowing how to use the car you have in the class..that's the key!!!
Truthfully, a guy in a 10.80-120 all out car, who's using weight to adjust his ET, and is running at his home town track that he knows well...That guy scares the heck out of the 142+ crowd!!!
The reason Big MPH is an advantage, is that with all the variables that come with trying to hit a set index when you're only getting 2 runs a day, it ends up being a top-end game of trying to take the stripe or give it up. The guy with the most MPH ultimately gets to make the Decision, and impose his will on the other racer. Problem with that is, is the guy with the big MPH smart enough to make the right decision, and is he good enough to execute the manuever once he makes the decision??? Sometimes ignorance is bliss!!!
Now let's get to the nuts and bolts of the situation:
If your car runs between 119-124 (10.90-10.60) it's really not fast enough to consistantly use an air or electric t-stop, so you need a manual stop, and weight.
If your car runs between 124-135 (10.60-9.90) you can run a single action air linkage style stop, or electric under carb stop, and be extremely successfull.
If your car runs between 135-145 (9.90-9.00) First, you have to have a chassis cert, neck collar, gloves, full suit, engine diaper. Then you need a dual action air cylinder linkage style stop, with adjustable bleeders, or an adjustable air under carb stop. The single action slam closed, slam open stuff won't work if you plan to get close to the number.
If your car runs between 145-168 (9.00-8.00) You need everything the above group needed, PLUS, usually dual stops, AND, the innate ability to know to lift 3,4,5, or 6 car lengths BEFORE you catch your opponent!!!
I've help set-up, and dial-in just about every combo there is, and trust me they are all different. If I can help you get a few legs up on the learning curve, I'd be glad to.
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
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Re: How fast do you need to be to be competitive in S/ST?
[Re: camdog440]
#310552
05/07/09 04:00 PM
05/07/09 04:00 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 502 Huron, South Dakota, United St...
dustyhof
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 502
Huron, South Dakota, United St...
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Quote:
Good info MoparBilly!
Thank You. It sounds like I had the right idea. All I can do is go and try it once the car is done. I just wanted some info to know if I was headed in the right direction. All my buddies run either S/C or S/G. The Dart will never work in either of those classes, but I just can't seem to bring myself to go after a tube car or dragster. I really like dad's old Dart. S/ST seemed to be a class that was within my reach. Thanks for all of your comments guys. Much appreciated. I will continue to build the Dart with this as some sort of goal for it.
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Re: How fast do you need to be to be competitive in S/ST?
[Re: dustyhof]
#310553
05/07/09 05:17 PM
05/07/09 05:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,989 new jersey usa
11secdart
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,989
new jersey usa
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I have a 10.50 car mechanical stopped ( and on DOT tires)to run 11.50s in another class. I am having a blast its nice being the faster car. When I ran the other class ( Pro 9.00 to 15.99) I was in the middle of the pack. My buddy runs a big Chevy Biscayne in Pro it runs mid 15s, the 9 second cars hate him,they can`t judge him at the stripe.
68 Dart 410 / 904 92 D150 original owner 21 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, Big Horn , Hemi ,4x4 23 Audi Q5 16 Honda HRV
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Re: How fast do you need to be to be competitive in S/ST?
[Re: 11secdart]
#310554
05/07/09 05:41 PM
05/07/09 05:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,475 SW Ohio
cgall
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,475
SW Ohio
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I did it for a number of years, tried a few different ways to run .90 with a .60 car. The most success I had was when I shifted into 3rd, I watched the tach and when it got close to 5500, I slowly lifted my foot to hold it there through the traps. The MPH would usually be 112-116.
My friend Frank Luckey won several NHRA events doing something similar, he would set his shift light around 5000, when the light came on in 2nd gear (powerglide), he would take his foot completely off the throttle and coast across at around 100 MPH. He had to quit doing that when some officials said that other racers were complaining of cheating.
These techniques probably sound goofy, but they go to show that you don't need to run big MPH if you know and trust your car, and practice, practice, practice.
One last comment, I went back to brackets for the reasons stated above by Bigdad, a whole weekend used for one shot at the tree on Sunday started to get ridiculous. I always liked the format, though.
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