https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...lity-will-take-several-years/ar-AA15qqYS

sample quote

As Farley told the engineers,
"We didn’t lose [quality] in just one or two years," and as everyone who's been sick knows, getting back to health almost always takes longer than getting sick.”
In comments about the issue to other audiences, reportage has always mentioned Farley's connecting the warranty issues to customer unhappiness and Ford's bottom line. This time, it was apparently all about Job One. "Until we fix quality," he told the engineers, "nothing else matters."

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I am reminded of the report several years ago where retired Toyota engineers “rebelled” against then board of directors members of Toyota.

I cannot help but think about the recent Boeing 737 problems,
and the recent F-35B crash.

I remember when Lee Iacocca was on Carson and Johnny asked Lee something like what are the biggest problems with a Chrysler vehicle. Lee replied without hesitation that it was the electrical system and the body. And I'm sitting there thinking......I didn't need him to tell the world what it already knew. So everybody has had quality problems. GM was the poster child for that in the early '80's as I recall.

Everyone has quality issues, look at all the recalls and customer satisfaction campaigns.

every large corp/gov is going to have quality issues.
whatever you make/do gets screwed up due to
1. bureaucracy
2. risk/reward system
3. complex machinery or the system
4. we have always done it like this.

the sheer number of people a single "job" has to go through is just insane.
not the guy putting on the lug nuts. it is his boss, his bosses boss, the people that are required to get bids for lug nuts, someone that inspects them, the people that make them, their source for materials etc..
I am the poor guy on the line putting them on, but notice they aren't quite right.
on the best of days, it takes 10 people to decide and get them changed out with new ones. again not physically right there on the line. but to source new ones going forward. that car that day is screwed probably, especially now with JIT ordering.

if I am getting bonuses because cars are going out the door, anything that slows that down goes by the wayside.
I am supposed to do x y and z, but z gets the cars out the door, so I am going to skip x and y till someone catches me. or someone makes it important to me.
that doesn't happen till someone audits the production and if audit has no teeth, then nothing changes till regulatory steps in and the .gov is going to fine you x millons of dollars and suddenly it is important till no one is looking again.

not one person can follow production of something from beginning to end. Gaps, or misses will occur because there isn't one person tracking everything or that understands everything from beginning to end.
each group is responsible for their slice of the pie, but don't understand the pie as a whole so you get flaws that build up and eventually crash something out.
the few people they do have trying to follow the line still have a narrow focus and limited knowledge of how things work, relying on the person in charge of that part of the line to tell them it is ok.
The higher up the food chain you go, the less likely they will understand the day to day because managers are now career managers, not people that worked their way up doing everything like the old days.
The military still takes the approach with officers that they need to do every job before they move up.
they limit it of course, none of them are actually able to do the job independently, but at least they put hands on to do the work at some point so they have a clue what they are ordering to get done.

no one wants to change how they do it.
as processes evolve, some jobs don't get removed, so people are doing things that don't need to be done anymore, but not knowing how the whole system works, prevents people from pruning dead branches.
you get vestigial tails so to speak, that don't do anything, but impede the system and adding bloat. sometimes these things do damage however causing other problems in the system.

Quality has to start with great component designs and everything has to be designed for manufacturability. So many young engineers are told to sit in front of a computer and design a part and they have no idea how it's manufactured. So the design becomes overly complex, almost impossible to manufacture with repeatability and the quality suffers for the life of the program. Ford has failed miserably on this on so many occasions it's hard to believe they have any customers left. So many issues come to mind, not the least being the breaking spark plugs in the past.

What Toyota does isn't rocket science, they use the same engines, platforms and components for YEARS and iron out any deficiencies. Time for a new model? Just re-skin the old one and keep everything the same under the skin. Lexus? Just re-skinned Toyotas.

Remember when Dodge quality went to #1 or something a few years back? It was because they dropped everything except the old charger/challenger and durango! Now watch it plummet again with the new hornet that has little 1.3L turbo engines and PHEV battery tech.

Correct. I have a '99 Toyota and the oil filter is identical to the 2010 I own (and fits my John Deere riding mower too).

Its even worse than that. I worked for Toyota when the "all new" highlander came out in 2019. All the buttons, vents, switches, lights, windows are in the exact same place as the previous one. They just doll up and re-do the dash and body work. Then I had a look at my 4th gen 4runner compared to the current 5th gen, exact same tricks, and you can do it with every model they make, including Lexus. No wonder they make cash hand over fist, they sell vehicles that were designed in the 90's.

This is not only smart engineering, but a huge cost savings too. Crank out hundreds of thousands of the same part number after a robust process is established and you're making money and a quality product. Don't change just for the sake of change. This also helps lower the dealers' cost since they don't have to stock 20 different oil filters. Kind of like Chrysler in the early 70's when the same starter fit almost every engine and model. This is the anthesis of Ford who may have three running changes of the same part in the same model year and none are interchangeable.

One irony in this coming from Ford: didn't the Falcon structure underpin some of their cars for almost 2 decades (Mustang, Maverick, etc) ?
Some of the problem is the perception that the public demands all-new stuff at a yearly rate. Combine that with ROI and stockholders, and something's gonna give.
Stir in Covid, personnel & supply problems, global sourcing, and Gov't mandated complexity, and you get a complex and all-but-intractable mess.
I think a large portion of the population would prefer much simpler vehicles, but that flies in the face of pushing new-vehicle sales with additional features.
Seems to me the car magazines are always pushing for additional features and gizmos as well.

Or maybe I'm just an outlier, content with simple vehicles...newest thing I own is a '97 model, and I find it electronically complex.
I'm perfectly happy tooling around in stuff from the '60s & '70s when I'm not in a hurry A-to-B on the Interstate.

The only way you're selling something against Toyotas quality record is to stuff it with features and options IMO. Then sell it for 10K + less.

Using the 4runner as an example, I dont even think it had a USB port until 2020 and I still dont think you can even get it with a heated steering wheel.

They need to simplify cars again, the computer systems are waaaaay to complex anymore, they are so concerned with keeping the aftermarket out of it that they can't even teach their own techs how to figure stuff out. Way too many "modules" in charge of way too many things relying on way too many sensors. Also engines are far more complex than needed, all the dual VVT, 19 feet of timing chain, twin turbos, intercoolers, and 4 valves per cylinder hasn't given them any magical edge over the cam in block 2 valve stuff.... seems they noticed this when they went back to the godzillla engine, it seems to be a decent blend of stuff they copied from gen III hemis and LS engines. The more parts and pieces and wires and computers the more places for stuff to go wrong. Go back to the basics, you don't need a module in every door. It would alss bring down cost and weight, in addition to helping reliability and resale value.

I don't envy any of these MFGs who have to meet demands of the customer, while meeting demands of the EPA, while meeting demands of sales, while meeting demands of shareholders, competing in a global economy. When the answer demands it be overly exotic this is what happens.

I know several people who took out loans to buy a nice used Ford- just to have to take out ANOTHER loan to replace the engine shortly after. Oiling issues=cam phasers. And a quote from a legit shop to change sparkplugs on the problematic engines starts at $300 but is left open depending on how many break off....or in the case of the late 90s early 2000s engines how many sparkplug holes need their threads replaced by a time cert.

Thinking about this subject again caused the thought;

“Dieter Zetche delayed the 5.7 V8 engine for more than a year when he found that the cam bearings were not going to last.”

Would he have made the same decision if he then knew that in a short time German Mercedes shareholders were going to rebel and make him sell Chrysler?

Remember the neon head gasket fiasco? That was the new CEO Bob Eatons doing. In the 11th hour he made them use a head gasket that was $5.00 cheaper and it was high fives all around, they were going to save millions! Well, until they had to recall them and replace them all.

Correct. All of the engineering simply for the sake of engineering is a waste. Last new car I bought was a 2019 Honda....absolutely HATE all of the added "features". Lane assist....infotainment system, heater/air controls, etc. If they made a version that had the three knobs for temperature, fan and mode select (like my '99) I would be all over it. Absolutely cannot stand all of the "features". Suspect the Wide Body Hellcat I have coming in will anger me at some point (maybe?) to realizing that I am still better off with the old technology rides...who knows.

I listen to several auto repair Q&A podcasts. All done by competent independent repair shop owners. Under The Hood Show- I feel does more promoting and bragging of high tech bells and whistles- maybe because the OEMs have a hand in their sponsorship? The Car Doctor flat out says- "How does any body expect to afford to have all this stuff repaired in 5 years when it all stops working!!!!???.

I have a 10 yr old F150 FX4 and a 9 yr old Fusion. Tires, brakes and a batt in each. Not gonna complain about either. Now if ya want the endless list of crap I put in an 04 Ram at 10 yrs and 65 k just let me know. I'll start writing it up!