Re: Head gasket question
[Re: Gabby63]
#3103058
12/17/22 11:03 AM
12/17/22 11:03 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,163 CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,163
CT
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What was wrong with the 1009 for your application? I’m between the 8519 and 1009 for mine and the 1009s are quite a bit more
Last edited by GTX MATT; 12/17/22 11:04 AM.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Head gasket question
[Re: GTX MATT]
#3103129
12/17/22 03:42 PM
12/17/22 03:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,223 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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What was wrong with the 1009 for your application? I’m between the 8519 and 1009 for mine and the 1009s are quite a bit more I believe the early 1009 head gaskets were design for the 426W and 383 bore size, 4.250 up to 4.310. The 8519 are for everyday rebuilders on 440 and 400 motors with the larger bores
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Head gasket question
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3103655
12/19/22 05:33 PM
12/19/22 05:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442 NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
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NW Chicago suburban area
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The early years(~1980s) of original Fel-Pro Performance (race) head gaskets featured a NON-pre-flattened internal wire ring (wrapped inside a stainless steel combustion armor).... this design did allow some minor brinelling into soft aluminum castings (head and/or block). It was actually preferred by some race-engine builders to allow the slight brinelling as it would provide a slightly better combustion seal at the armor.
The later years (~1990s up) of the Fel-Pro Performance (race) head gaskets featured a PRE-flattened internal wire ring (wrapped inside a stainless steel combustion armor)... this would deter the wire ring from brinelling into soft aluminum castings (head and/or block). This design had been implemented throughout the entire line of Fel-Pro Performance (race) head gaskets... and still provided superb combustion sealing.
The 8519 was originally for motor-home applications (example: 440-3) having two extra ~1/4" spark plug cooling holes per cylinder. I believe that was later implemented to all the big block head gaskets (7891 series). However, the 8519 later received its folded-over cylinder armor to become stainless steel (vs the 7891 just having traditional tin-plate... marketing and pricing issues always prevail).
The 7891 and 8519 series head gaskets never had an internal wire ring... instead, just the traditional folded over flat armor.
The Fel-Pro Marine head gaskets feature stainless steel metal core and flat folded cylinder armors... all to prevent potential rust from ever occurring... no internal wire rings under the folded over cylinder armors.
NOTE: I'm a former Fel-Pro applications engineer.... some things have changed since I departed the company several years ago, so, I might be slightly incorrect, but, I do recall the past history of the aftermarket gasket line while I was with them for many long years.
Last edited by Mopar Mitch; 12/19/22 05:38 PM.
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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Re: Head gasket question
[Re: Gabby63]
#3103966
12/20/22 02:51 PM
12/20/22 02:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285 West Coast, USA
jbc426
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master
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I'm in search of .030" over head gaskets that match the valve notches in my block and combustion chamber shape of my heads. If memory serves, I was running .038" compressed thickness Cometic MLS gaskets when I messed up plotting my timing curve.
I am speculating detonation lifted both aluminum Indy EZ heads on my stock block RB while attempting to integrate vacuum advance into my timing table. The detonation also damaged the heads, one piston and the fire ring on my Cometic MLS head gaskets. The fire ring was eroded away in places including where it was back away from direct exposure to the combustion chamber between the head and the block.
I'm assuming this was all as a result of my ham fisted attempt to set my timing up with the added vacuum advance. I'll attach my last timing table for the curious, experienced and knowledgeable. Prior to this new ignition, I was running an MSD Pro-billet locked out at 35*. The motor was easy to start and seemed happy. So. of course I had to mess with a good thing.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Head gasket question
[Re: jbc426]
#3103976
12/20/22 03:31 PM
12/20/22 03:31 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 713 Lake Villa Il
INTMD8
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super stock
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Lake Villa Il
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^ Adding timing in high vacuum/low load ranges shouldn't have been capable of knocking the thing apart.
Unless it was running through that at WOT (map sensor not calibrated/reading correctly)
69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
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Re: Head gasket question
[Re: INTMD8]
#3103980
12/20/22 03:38 PM
12/20/22 03:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,028 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
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Tulsa OK
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I assume you did verify timing with your timing light before sending it wide open?
My EFI system has a way I can I lock timing to a set amount to verify with a light. Then if everything lunes up you can resume to using a timing table like the one shown.
Just wanting to make sure that table wasn't adding timing to your 35*.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: Head gasket question
[Re: Bad340fish]
#3104321
12/21/22 07:40 PM
12/21/22 07:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285 West Coast, USA
jbc426
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I assume you did verify timing with your timing light before sending it wide open?
My EFI system has a way I can I lock timing to a set amount to verify with a light. Then if everything lunes up you can resume to using a timing table like the one shown.
Just wanting to make sure that table wasn't adding timing to your 35*.
The timing is fixed in the Progressive Ignition blue tooth distributor and is controlled electronically. The only connections to the distributor are the 2 wires (Same as MSD) and the vacuum line to the manifold. I did verify the base timing with several of my timing lights to see if they all read the same. They did. The program runs on my cell phone and shows where the timing is at that RPM and vacuum reading. Everything looked & felt like it was running correctly. I felt no power loss, but noticed white smoke coming from the exhaust when I arrived home after a 75 mile loop. The coolant steam cleaned my cylinders and my heads were etched along the fire ring.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Head gasket question
[Re: jbc426]
#3104382
12/21/22 11:01 PM
12/21/22 11:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,223 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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Bend,OR USA
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Did it damage the head? I hope not
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Head gasket question
[Re: jbc426]
#3104474
12/22/22 10:48 AM
12/22/22 10:48 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 715 Central TEXAS!!!!
sr4440
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Central TEXAS!!!!
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The timing is fixed in the Progressive Ignition blue tooth distributor and is controlled electronically. The only connections to the distributor are the 2 wires (Same as MSD) and the vacuum line to the manifold. I did verify the base timing with several of my timing lights to see if they all read the same. They did. The program runs on my cell phone and shows where the timing is at that RPM and vacuum reading. Everything looked & felt like it was running correctly. I felt no power loss, but noticed white smoke coming from the exhaust when I arrived home after a 75 mile loop. The coolant steam cleaned my cylinders and my heads were etched along the fire ring.
I have done a few of these on the dyno, but they seem a little different, they had 4 wires, 2 to MSD, 1 hot and a tech output, along with the vacuum line. Also those were set @ 10 BTDC before we turned on the timing table. Joe
Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.
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Re: Head gasket question
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3104552
12/22/22 01:20 PM
12/22/22 01:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285 West Coast, USA
jbc426
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Cab, both heads have what looks like erosion where the fire ring sits. I have to have them welded up and resurfaced. The Cometic MLS head gaskets look eroded in spots too. It's likely a combination of trying to get too much quench and detonation, but I can't figure it out fully. Hoping these changes eliminate any problems in the future. I didn't look at the ring to see if they butted. I will now.
I suspect the pistons were rocking and my quench clearance of .035" was a touch too close. Didn't really see any signs of contact though??? I ordered slightly oversized pistons with a touch less compression heigth and will have the block honed to fit them.
I also had the block resurfaced about .006" to clean it up. It wasn't properly square decked, as there was a .003" slant to both decks. Me thinks the original fixture was off on the previous build. Ordered new pistons. All the bearings looked brand new thanks to the Jomar 100% no bypass.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Head gasket question
[Re: 6PAX]
#3106265
12/29/22 03:35 AM
12/29/22 03:35 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,223 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
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Bend,OR USA
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that is the same head gasket I use in most of my BB Mopar stroker motor pump gas builds My old pump gas 517 C.I. Duster motor made 687 HP with a set of Eddy CNC ported RPM heads on Oregon pump swill on a DTS engine dyno in Klamath Falls ,OR at 4300 Ft. above actual sea level, I switch heads to a set of Indy SR Max wedge ports and those heads made 727 HP 2 weeks later with every other part the same including compression ratio, intake and carb, camshaft, lifter and rocker arms That motor had 10,78 to 1 compression ratio and a Indy400-3 intake with a Holley List 3 9375 1050 CFM Dominator carb, Comp Cams solid roller cam that was 260@.050 with .420 lobe lift on the intake lobes and it had 266@.050 on the exhaust lobes with .409 lobe lift Harland sharp 1.65 ratio roller rockers My message is those are good head gaskets for pump gas street motors with less than 11.0 to 1 compression ratio
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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