Head gasket question

Are Fel-Pro 8519 PT1 head gaskets O.K. to use with aluminum heads and 10.8 compression?

I've never had a problem.
Aluminum (RPM) heads on factory iron block (using studs), probably a few tenths more of compression, using that gasket.

yes

The only issue you may have is that the fire ring on the gasket may leave an impression in the aluminum head. So if and when you rebuild it again might have to have the head surfaced slightly. But as far as sealing never had an issue with that type of gasket on a mild build.

Is there another gasket that won't leave an impression that isn't too expensive? I already wasted almost $100 on a pair of 1009 gaskets that I can't use.

i use, and have used, 8519's on both my cars with never a hint of a problem. i've used them in situations where i thought nothing would seal and they did. i believe that the real deal is keeping that fire ring away from the combustion "fire". combustion chamber temps (1000f degrees) will rapidly burn thru any fire ring (wire in it or not) if it's too close to the heat source; been there done that! ive found that the 1039 gasket on a 4.37" bore and 12+:1 compression was very safe on a 470" race engine. of course as an end user you should do your homework by keeping water temps reasonable, proper timing, and avoiding excessive lean a/f ratios.

The 8519 is a good gasket, I have used it on my 14 to 1 all aluminum engine, not my choice for that application but they worked. The fire ring area on those gaskets have no ring in them, and therefore leave no grove when I have used them. The 1009 will.

i pay careful attention to head bolt torquing. i start out at 25ftlbs and continue with that setting until the pulls are always consistent on each bolt before i step up the torque. this may mean doing the 25ftlb step a half dozen times but it does insure an even clamping force as you move forward. i never do that tv crap where they just run three pulls and call it good. i try to build my stuff to work; not to be worked on.

when you do the 25lb pulls, are you using a beam wrench or click type ?

clicker

After using the 1009 & the marine gasket on my -1 heads there was no imprint of fire ring on heads . Gary

What was wrong with the 1009 for your application? I’m between the 8519 and 1009 for mine and the 1009s are quite a bit more

thanks Lew.

I believe the early 1009 head gaskets were design for the 426W and 383 bore size, 4.250 up to 4.310.
The 8519 are for everyday rebuilders on 440 and 400 motors with the larger bores

The early years(~1980s) of original Fel-Pro Performance (race) head gaskets featured a NON-pre-flattened internal wire ring (wrapped inside a stainless steel combustion armor).... this design did allow some minor brinelling into soft aluminum castings (head and/or block). It was actually preferred by some race-engine builders to allow the slight brinelling as it would provide a slightly better combustion seal at the armor.

The later years (~1990s up) of the Fel-Pro Performance (race) head gaskets featured a PRE-flattened internal wire ring (wrapped inside a stainless steel combustion armor)... this would deter the wire ring from brinelling into soft aluminum castings (head and/or block). This design had been implemented throughout the entire line of Fel-Pro Performance (race) head gaskets... and still provided superb combustion sealing.

The 8519 was originally for motor-home applications (example: 440-3) having two extra ~1/4" spark plug cooling holes per cylinder. I believe that was later implemented to all the big block head gaskets (7891 series). However, the 8519 later received its folded-over cylinder armor to become stainless steel (vs the 7891 just having traditional tin-plate... marketing and pricing issues always prevail).

The 7891 and 8519 series head gaskets never had an internal wire ring... instead, just the traditional folded over flat armor.

The Fel-Pro Marine head gaskets feature stainless steel metal core and flat folded cylinder armors... all to prevent potential rust from ever occurring... no internal wire rings under the folded over cylinder armors.

NOTE: I'm a former Fel-Pro applications engineer.... some things have changed since I departed the company several years ago, so, I might be slightly incorrect, but, I do recall the past history of the aftermarket gasket line while I was with them for many long years.

The issue was the bore size as Cab has said . I needed the larger bore gasket . Gary

I'm in search of .030" over head gaskets that match the valve notches in my block and combustion chamber shape of my heads. If memory serves, I was running .038" compressed thickness Cometic MLS gaskets when I messed up plotting my timing curve.

I am speculating detonation lifted both aluminum Indy EZ heads on my stock block RB while attempting to integrate vacuum advance into my timing table. The detonation also damaged the heads, one piston and the fire ring on my Cometic MLS head gaskets. The fire ring was eroded away in places including where it was back away from direct exposure to the combustion chamber between the head and the block.

I'm assuming this was all as a result of my ham fisted attempt to set my timing up with the added vacuum advance. I'll attach my last timing table for the curious, experienced and knowledgeable. Prior to this new ignition, I was running an MSD Pro-billet locked out at 35*. The motor was easy to start and seemed happy. So. of course I had to mess with a good thing.

^ Adding timing in high vacuum/low load ranges shouldn't have been capable of knocking the thing apart.

Unless it was running through that at WOT (map sensor not calibrated/reading correctly)

I assume you did verify timing with your timing light before sending it wide open?

My EFI system has a way I can I lock timing to a set amount to verify with a light. Then if everything lunes up you can resume to using a timing table like the one shown.

Just wanting to make sure that table wasn't adding timing to your 35*.

The timing is fixed in the Progressive Ignition blue tooth distributor and is controlled electronically. The only connections to the distributor are the 2 wires (Same as MSD) and the vacuum line to the manifold.
I did verify the base timing with several of my timing lights to see if they all read the same. They did. The program runs on my cell phone and shows where the timing is at that RPM and vacuum reading. Everything looked & felt like it was running correctly. I felt no power loss, but noticed white smoke coming from the exhaust when I arrived home after a 75 mile loop. The coolant steam cleaned my cylinders and my heads were etched along the fire ring.

Did it damage the head?
I hope not

that "notch" in the piston looks like a break not a burn. not enough end gap?

I have done a few of these on the dyno, but they seem a little different, they had 4 wires, 2 to MSD, 1 hot and a tech output, along with the vacuum line. Also those were set @ 10 BTDC before we turned on the timing table.


Joe

Cab, both heads have what looks like erosion where the fire ring sits. I have to have them welded up and resurfaced. The Cometic MLS head gaskets look eroded in spots too. It's likely a combination of trying to get too much quench and detonation, but I can't figure it out fully. Hoping these changes eliminate any problems in the future. I didn't look at the ring to see if they butted. I will now.

I suspect the pistons were rocking and my quench clearance of .035" was a touch too close. Didn't really see any signs of contact though??? I ordered slightly oversized pistons with a touch less compression heigth and will have the block honed to fit them.

I also had the block resurfaced about .006" to clean it up. It wasn't properly square decked, as there was a .003" slant to both decks. Me thinks the original fixture was off on the previous build. Ordered new pistons. All the bearings looked brand new thanks to the Jomar 100% no bypass.

Looks like ring end gaps too tight.

Used them on my 11:1 compression 451 stroker with B1-BS aluminum heads and never had a problem.

that is the same head gasket I use in most of my BB Mopar stroker motor pump gas builds
My old pump gas 517 C.I. Duster motor made 687 HP with a set of Eddy CNC ported RPM heads on Oregon pump swill on a DTS engine dyno in Klamath Falls ,OR at 4300 Ft. above actual sea level, I switch heads to a set of Indy SR Max wedge ports and those heads made 727 HP 2 weeks later with every other part the same including compression ratio, intake and carb, camshaft, lifter and rocker arms
That motor had 10,78 to 1 compression ratio and a Indy400-3 intake with a Holley List 3 9375 1050 CFM Dominator carb, Comp Cams solid roller cam that was 260@.050 with .420 lobe lift on the intake lobes and it had 266@.050 on the exhaust lobes with .409 lobe lift Harland sharp 1.65 ratio roller rockers
My message is those are good head gaskets for pump gas street motors with less than 11.0 to 1 compression ratio