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Head gasket question #3102593
12/15/22 03:57 PM
12/15/22 03:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,630
Detroit area
6PAX Offline OP
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6PAX  Offline OP
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Detroit area
Are Fel-Pro 8519 PT1 head gaskets O.K. to use with aluminum heads and 10.8 compression?

Re: Head gasket question [Re: 6PAX] #3102617
12/15/22 05:10 PM
12/15/22 05:10 PM
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Dallas, TX
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440Brian Offline
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Dallas, TX
I've never had a problem.
Aluminum (RPM) heads on factory iron block (using studs), probably a few tenths more of compression, using that gasket.

Re: Head gasket question [Re: 440Brian] #3102630
12/15/22 05:59 PM
12/15/22 05:59 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,992
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
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Apollo, PA.
yes

Re: Head gasket question [Re: 6PAX] #3102652
12/15/22 07:06 PM
12/15/22 07:06 PM
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Missouri
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jwb123 Offline
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The only issue you may have is that the fire ring on the gasket may leave an impression in the aluminum head. So if and when you rebuild it again might have to have the head surfaced slightly. But as far as sealing never had an issue with that type of gasket on a mild build.

Re: Head gasket question [Re: jwb123] #3102675
12/15/22 08:19 PM
12/15/22 08:19 PM
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Detroit area
6PAX Offline OP
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Is there another gasket that won't leave an impression that isn't too expensive? I already wasted almost $100 on a pair of 1009 gaskets that I can't use.

Re: Head gasket question [Re: 6PAX] #3102775
12/16/22 07:59 AM
12/16/22 07:59 AM
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usa
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lewtot184 Offline
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usa
i use, and have used, 8519's on both my cars with never a hint of a problem. i've used them in situations where i thought nothing would seal and they did. i believe that the real deal is keeping that fire ring away from the combustion "fire". combustion chamber temps (1000f degrees) will rapidly burn thru any fire ring (wire in it or not) if it's too close to the heat source; been there done that! ive found that the 1039 gasket on a 4.37" bore and 12+:1 compression was very safe on a 470" race engine. of course as an end user you should do your homework by keeping water temps reasonable, proper timing, and avoiding excessive lean a/f ratios.

Re: Head gasket question [Re: lewtot184] #3102780
12/16/22 08:44 AM
12/16/22 08:44 AM
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Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
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The 8519 is a good gasket, I have used it on my 14 to 1 all aluminum engine, not my choice for that application but they worked. The fire ring area on those gaskets have no ring in them, and therefore leave no grove when I have used them. The 1009 will.

Re: Head gasket question [Re: B1MAXX] #3102791
12/16/22 10:00 AM
12/16/22 10:00 AM
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usa
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lewtot184 Offline
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i pay careful attention to head bolt torquing. i start out at 25ftlbs and continue with that setting until the pulls are always consistent on each bolt before i step up the torque. this may mean doing the 25ftlb step a half dozen times but it does insure an even clamping force as you move forward. i never do that tv crap where they just run three pulls and call it good. i try to build my stuff to work; not to be worked on.

Re: Head gasket question [Re: lewtot184] #3102896
12/16/22 02:49 PM
12/16/22 02:49 PM
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north of coder
moparx Offline
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when you do the 25lb pulls, are you using a beam wrench or click type ?
beer

Re: Head gasket question [Re: moparx] #3102914
12/16/22 04:32 PM
12/16/22 04:32 PM
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usa
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lewtot184 Offline
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Originally Posted by moparx
when you do the 25lb pulls, are you using a beam wrench or click type ?
beer
clicker

Re: Head gasket question [Re: 6PAX] #3102927
12/16/22 05:02 PM
12/16/22 05:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 347
Indiana
Gabby63 Offline
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Indiana
After using the 1009 & the marine gasket on my -1 heads there was no imprint of fire ring on heads . Gary

Re: Head gasket question [Re: Gabby63] #3103058
12/17/22 11:03 AM
12/17/22 11:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,163
CT
GTX MATT Offline
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CT
What was wrong with the 1009 for your application? I’m between the 8519 and 1009 for mine and the 1009s are quite a bit more

Last edited by GTX MATT; 12/17/22 11:04 AM.

Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: Head gasket question [Re: lewtot184] #3103082
12/17/22 12:47 PM
12/17/22 12:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,449
north of coder
moparx Offline
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Originally Posted by lewtot184
Originally Posted by moparx
when you do the 25lb pulls, are you using a beam wrench or click type ?
beer
clicker



thanks Lew. up
beer

Re: Head gasket question [Re: GTX MATT] #3103129
12/17/22 03:42 PM
12/17/22 03:42 PM
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Posts: 43,213
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted by GTX MATT
What was wrong with the 1009 for your application? I’m between the 8519 and 1009 for mine and the 1009s are quite a bit more
I believe the early 1009 head gaskets were design for the 426W and 383 bore size, 4.250 up to 4.310.
The 8519 are for everyday rebuilders on 440 and 400 motors with the larger bores twocents scope


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Head gasket question [Re: Cab_Burge] #3103655
12/19/22 05:33 PM
12/19/22 05:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch Offline
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The early years(~1980s) of original Fel-Pro Performance (race) head gaskets featured a NON-pre-flattened internal wire ring (wrapped inside a stainless steel combustion armor).... this design did allow some minor brinelling into soft aluminum castings (head and/or block). It was actually preferred by some race-engine builders to allow the slight brinelling as it would provide a slightly better combustion seal at the armor.

The later years (~1990s up) of the Fel-Pro Performance (race) head gaskets featured a PRE-flattened internal wire ring (wrapped inside a stainless steel combustion armor)... this would deter the wire ring from brinelling into soft aluminum castings (head and/or block). This design had been implemented throughout the entire line of Fel-Pro Performance (race) head gaskets... and still provided superb combustion sealing.

The 8519 was originally for motor-home applications (example: 440-3) having two extra ~1/4" spark plug cooling holes per cylinder. I believe that was later implemented to all the big block head gaskets (7891 series). However, the 8519 later received its folded-over cylinder armor to become stainless steel (vs the 7891 just having traditional tin-plate... marketing and pricing issues always prevail).

The 7891 and 8519 series head gaskets never had an internal wire ring... instead, just the traditional folded over flat armor.

The Fel-Pro Marine head gaskets feature stainless steel metal core and flat folded cylinder armors... all to prevent potential rust from ever occurring... no internal wire rings under the folded over cylinder armors.

NOTE: I'm a former Fel-Pro applications engineer.... some things have changed since I departed the company several years ago, so, I might be slightly incorrect, but, I do recall the past history of the aftermarket gasket line while I was with them for many long years.

Last edited by Mopar Mitch; 12/19/22 05:38 PM.

Mopar Mitch "Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers! Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
Re: Head gasket question [Re: GTX MATT] #3103910
12/20/22 01:05 PM
12/20/22 01:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 347
Indiana
Gabby63 Offline
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Indiana
The issue was the bore size as Cab has said . I needed the larger bore gasket . Gary

Re: Head gasket question [Re: Gabby63] #3103966
12/20/22 02:51 PM
12/20/22 02:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426 Offline
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I'm in search of .030" over head gaskets that match the valve notches in my block and combustion chamber shape of my heads. If memory serves, I was running .038" compressed thickness Cometic MLS gaskets when I messed up plotting my timing curve.

I am speculating detonation lifted both aluminum Indy EZ heads on my stock block RB while attempting to integrate vacuum advance into my timing table. The detonation also damaged the heads, one piston and the fire ring on my Cometic MLS head gaskets. The fire ring was eroded away in places including where it was back away from direct exposure to the combustion chamber between the head and the block.

I'm assuming this was all as a result of my ham fisted attempt to set my timing up with the added vacuum advance. I'll attach my last timing table for the curious, experienced and knowledgeable. Prior to this new ignition, I was running an MSD Pro-billet locked out at 35*. The motor was easy to start and seemed happy. So. of course I had to mess with a good thing.

493 Timing Table.jpg

1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Head gasket question [Re: jbc426] #3103976
12/20/22 03:31 PM
12/20/22 03:31 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 713
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8 Offline
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^ Adding timing in high vacuum/low load ranges shouldn't have been capable of knocking the thing apart.

Unless it was running through that at WOT (map sensor not calibrated/reading correctly)


69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
Re: Head gasket question [Re: INTMD8] #3103980
12/20/22 03:38 PM
12/20/22 03:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,028
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
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I assume you did verify timing with your timing light before sending it wide open?

My EFI system has a way I can I lock timing to a set amount to verify with a light. Then if everything lunes up you can resume to using a timing table like the one shown.

Just wanting to make sure that table wasn't adding timing to your 35*.


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: Head gasket question [Re: Bad340fish] #3104321
12/21/22 07:40 PM
12/21/22 07:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426 Offline
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Originally Posted by Bad340fish
I assume you did verify timing with your timing light before sending it wide open?

My EFI system has a way I can I lock timing to a set amount to verify with a light. Then if everything lunes up you can resume to using a timing table like the one shown.

Just wanting to make sure that table wasn't adding timing to your 35*.



The timing is fixed in the Progressive Ignition blue tooth distributor and is controlled electronically. The only connections to the distributor are the 2 wires (Same as MSD) and the vacuum line to the manifold.
I did verify the base timing with several of my timing lights to see if they all read the same. They did. The program runs on my cell phone and shows where the timing is at that RPM and vacuum reading. Everything looked & felt like it was running correctly. I felt no power loss, but noticed white smoke coming from the exhaust when I arrived home after a 75 mile loop. The coolant steam cleaned my cylinders and my heads were etched along the fire ring.

piston2.jpgpiston3.jpg

1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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