Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... - Moparts Forums

Register Log In Moparts Forums Unlawfl's Race & Engine Tech Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs.....

Print Thread

Page 2 of 3

1

2

3

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: theclutcher] #310022 05/07/09 01:46 PM 05/07/09 01:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI patrick I Live Here
patrick I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI	expensive solution: multipoint EFI with twin TB's and the fuel rails/injectors internal to the cross ram. gets rid of a lot of wet-flow fuel distribution problems 1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod SOLD!* 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: theclutcher] #310023 05/07/09 01:53 PM 05/07/09 01:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,573 ...gently down the stream LAR_414 OP master
LAR_414 OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,573 ...gently down the stream	I would like to go MPFI....that would be sweet and cool...but that's beyond me and my $$. The way this intake is designed, I'd have to separate the right and left cylinders, not the front and back ones. Each carb sits over the ports for the opposite bank.

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: patrick] #310024 05/07/09 02:02 PM 05/07/09 02:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,004 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,004 U.S.S.A.	Quote: expensive solution: multipoint EFI with twin TB's and the fuel rails/injectors internal to the cross ram. gets rid of a lot of wet-flow fuel distribution problems there was a setup in a mag recently like that , multi point FI on a croaaram hemi , injectors and plumbing in the intake , to air horn throttle bodies on the top. Larry , you have 1300 cfm on a 408ish inch engine ? I would think a smaller pair of carbs as a test would be the first test ?

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: JohnRR] #310025 05/07/09 02:16 PM 05/07/09 02:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 11,179 Atco NJ DJVCuda I Live Here
DJVCuda I Live Here Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 11,179 Atco NJ	Quote: Quote: expensive solution: multipoint EFI with twin TB's and the fuel rails/injectors internal to the cross ram. gets rid of a lot of wet-flow fuel distribution problems there was a setup in a mag recently like that , multi point FI on a croaaram hemi , injectors and plumbing in the intake , to air horn throttle bodies on the top. Larry , you have 1300 cfm on a 408ish inch engine ? I would think a smaller pair of carbs as a test would be the first test ? I have a combined 780 cfm on my 360 and can idle at 700 rpm in drive - ( 2 holley 390's) but the tunnel ram dont have all those turns like a cross ram does, so fuel suspension is less of a problem for me

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: DJVCuda] #310026 05/07/09 02:21 PM 05/07/09 02:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,004 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,004 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Quote: Quote: expensive solution: multipoint EFI with twin TB's and the fuel rails/injectors internal to the cross ram. gets rid of a lot of wet-flow fuel distribution problems there was a setup in a mag recently like that , multi point FI on a croaaram hemi , injectors and plumbing in the intake , to air horn throttle bodies on the top. Larry , you have 1300 cfm on a 408ish inch engine ? I would think a smaller pair of carbs as a test would be the first test ? I have a combined 780 cfm on my 360 and can idle at 700 rpm in drive - ( 2 holley 390's) but the tunnel ram dont have all those turns like a cross ram does, so fuel suspension is less of a problem for me Dave 780 on the tunnel ram is like having a thermobog on a dual plane on your 360.

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: DJVCuda] #310027 05/07/09 02:26 PM 05/07/09 02:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,938 Sonora CA Mopar_Rich top fuel
Mopar_Rich top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,938 Sonora CA	I'm the guy that did the crossram EFI conversion with everything hid inside. I have done about 6 of these now and they all work pretty darn well (if I do say so myself). You can go to my web site(www.fastmanefi.com), click on "Photos" and scroll down past the Yellow E-Body to see lots of internal pictures. 5214228-Finished_Front_500pix.jpg (290 downloads)

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: JohnRR] #310028 05/07/09 02:29 PM 05/07/09 02:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 11,179 Atco NJ DJVCuda I Live Here
DJVCuda I Live Here Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 11,179 Atco NJ	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: expensive solution: multipoint EFI with twin TB's and the fuel rails/injectors internal to the cross ram. gets rid of a lot of wet-flow fuel distribution problems there was a setup in a mag recently like that , multi point FI on a croaaram hemi , injectors and plumbing in the intake , to air horn throttle bodies on the top. Larry , you have 1300 cfm on a 408ish inch engine ? I would think a smaller pair of carbs as a test would be the first test ? I have a combined 780 cfm on my 360 and can idle at 700 rpm in drive - ( 2 holley 390's) but the tunnel ram dont have all those turns like a cross ram does, so fuel suspension is less of a problem for me Dave 780 on the tunnel ram is like having a thermobog on a dual plane on your 360. yup - only faster! 12.56 @ 106 compares to a stock ported iron intake and 780 cfm holley at 13.2 @102

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: Mopar_Rich] #310029 05/07/09 02:30 PM 05/07/09 02:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,938 Sonora CA Mopar_Rich top fuel
Mopar_Rich top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,938 Sonora CA	Here's a shot from one of my customers. BTW: The fuel rails are actually above the intake ports so they don't have much affect on max HP. I dynoed the first Hemi at 675 HP with carbs on the same manifold. After conversion the engine actually made a little more HP on EFI, but that was because I was able to individually tune each cylinder independently. 5214233-Crossram_Installed_500PIX.jpg (4702 downloads)

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: LAR_414] #310030 05/07/09 02:49 PM 05/07/09 02:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,573 ...gently down the stream LAR_414 OP master
LAR_414 OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,573 ...gently down the stream	Wow that's some sweet work there on the EFI. That is sure nice. I'm sure it would be a challenge to get it inside this intake. Here's a pic, during mockup, before any damn's and such. On the carbs, No sense trying smaller ones. It's not overcarbed. Even though theres not sure fire way to pick CFM for an engine, I'm in the ball park. Remember, the carbs are rated at 1.5inches of vacuum. At WOT, you better not be pulling that kind of vacuum, or you have a major restriction. Assume your pulling 3/4 of an inch. A (rated 650 carb at 1.5 inches of vacuum), probably flows more like 450 cfm at 3/4 inch draw. Two of those is about 900cfm. My engine at 414 cubes and 6500rpm should need about 800 cfm at 100%VE. I'm Good! 5214254-Crossraminsidebeforemods.jpg (275 downloads)

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: Mopar_Rich] #310031 05/07/09 04:37 PM 05/07/09 04:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 428 wappinger falls new york J Jimi_Vignogna mopar
Jimi_Vignogna mopar J Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 428 wappinger falls new york	rich your work is awesome!!!! i love the cross ram hemi https://www.facebook.com/VignognaRacingEngines

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: LAR_414] #310032 05/07/09 05:15 PM 05/07/09 05:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,938 Sonora CA Mopar_Rich top fuel
Mopar_Rich top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,938 Sonora CA	Quote: Here's a pic, during mockup, before any damn's and such. I never tried one of those manifolds. The issue would be the vertical distance from the runners to the cover. The biggest problem with the EFI conversion is the cost. Not only are the manifolds expensive but you have to commit to the entire EFI process. NOT for the weak of heart. I don't have much input to your basic problem with the carbs. Sorry.

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: LAR_414] #310033 05/07/09 08:23 PM 05/07/09 08:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,945 WI Dcuda69 master
Dcuda69 master Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,945 WI	Quote: Wow that's some sweet work there on the EFI. That is sure nice. I'm sure it would be a challenge to get it inside this intake. Here's a pic, during mockup, before any damn's and such. On the carbs, No sense trying smaller ones. It's not overcarbed. Even though theres not sure fire way to pick CFM for an engine, I'm in the ball park. Remember, the carbs are rated at 1.5inches of vacuum. At WOT, you better not be pulling that kind of vacuum, or you have a major restriction. Assume your pulling 3/4 of an inch. A (rated 650 carb at 1.5 inches of vacuum), probably flows more like 450 cfm at 3/4 inch draw. Two of those is about 900cfm. My engine at 414 cubes and 6500rpm should need about 800 cfm at 100%VE. I'm Good! Maybe a spread bore type carbs? I know it would be work to fit them on that intake(spacer/adapter?)Smaller primarys(better signal/velocity)but still the CFM you need at WOT.Just a thought? I've been watching this thread as I have the same problem(as I said in your Q&A post),great reading BTW!!Please let us know what you find as I'm sure there are other members who have the same issues with low speed drivability.

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: theclutcher] #310034 05/07/09 08:45 PM 05/07/09 08:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,832 Fort Morgan 1OFNONE Has been a member for quite a few years, so relax.
1OFNONE Has been a member for quite a few years, so relax. Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,832 Fort Morgan	I spoke with Damon at Diamondback Engines in Texas who is the current foremost authority on these intakes. He told me to put a 1" 4 hole spacer under each carb. That made a huge difference. Next he said to put a 1/4 " spacer between the lid and the bottom to increase the radious the fuel has to turn in due to it just slams into the bottom of the plenium. I never did that cause the spacers cured my drivablity issues. Call him and pick his brain. Very smart man. Thats my 10 cents. So the bartender says to the horse " Gee, Why the long face?"

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: 1OFNONE] #310035 05/08/09 07:57 AM 05/08/09 07:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,573 ...gently down the stream LAR_414 OP master
LAR_414 OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,573 ...gently down the stream	I'm glad to hear that a 4 hole spacer made a huge difference. What EXACTLY was the issue that it helped with? THis obviously seems like the easiest thing to try (although I need to buy spacers and longer carb studs).

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: LAR_414] #310036 05/08/09 08:34 AM 05/08/09 08:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,720 Moved to N.E. Tennessee GomangoCuda master
GomangoCuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,720 Moved to N.E. Tennessee	Quote: I'm glad to hear that a 4 hole spacer made a huge difference. What EXACTLY was the issue that it helped with? THis obviously seems like the easiest thing to try (although I need to buy spacers and longer carb studs). weak signal to carb caused by huge plenum. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: LAR_414] #310037 05/08/09 09:49 AM 05/08/09 09:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,172 Ohio T theclutcher top fuel
theclutcher top fuel T Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,172 Ohio	The way this intake is designed, I'd have to separate the right and left cylinders, not the front and back ones. Thats what I'd do, then adjust hgt. as needed, could almost do that on car. After trying the 4 hole spacers... Last edited by theclutcher; 05/08/09 10:31 AM.

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: theclutcher] #310038 05/08/09 10:24 AM 05/08/09 10:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,495 Shelby mi. J JAKE68 pro stock
JAKE68 pro stock J Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,495 Shelby mi.	This morning I did a dyno tune on a 68 hemi dart with the mopar cross ram. It was weird that this thing did not have the typical surging idle. When I went to pull the carbs to do some jetting bingo there was a 4 hole spacer. Maybe we are on to somthing. Jake JAKES AUTOMOTIVE

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: JAKE68] #310039 05/08/09 10:33 AM 05/08/09 10:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,573 ...gently down the stream LAR_414 OP master
LAR_414 OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,573 ...gently down the stream	Gentlemen, Thanks for the healthy discussion here. I think we all gained something. I think the first thing I'll do (when time allows) is to get a couple of four hole 1" tall spacers and get them on there. Got to modify some linkage and the fuel lines a tad, and make sure there is enough hood clearance (no hoodscoop). I'll report back, on what that does, but it might take me while to actually get time to do this. If that doesn't do it, then I'll probably pop the top and try modifiying the inside of the intake. Take out some plenum volume, and /or modify the area under the carbs to get rid of the "valley" channel. Make more of a dome there. I can separate the two sides of the intake more, and just leave a little balancing opening/tube. Maybe make that opening adjustible too.

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: JAKE68] #310040 05/08/09 01:05 PM 05/08/09 01:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,720 Moved to N.E. Tennessee GomangoCuda master
GomangoCuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,720 Moved to N.E. Tennessee	Quote: This morning I did a dyno tune on a 68 hemi dart with the mopar cross ram. It was weird that this thing did not have the typical surging idle. When I went to pull the carbs to do some jetting bingo there was a 4 hole spacer. Maybe we are on to somthing. Jake Didn't ALL of the Mopar Mag and Aluminum, maxwedge and Hemi crossrams have 4 hole carb mountings instead of the square holes that the STR intake has? In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

Re: Cross Ram - inside work - dividers / block offs..... [Re: LAR_414] #310041 05/08/09 02:05 PM 05/08/09 02:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,720 Moved to N.E. Tennessee GomangoCuda master
GomangoCuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,720 Moved to N.E. Tennessee	Quote: I have an intake that almost nobody has messed with.....and I like it that way It's a STR-12 for a smallblock. I like being different also so I won't try to talk you out of trying to tame the STR but here is my limited experience with one. I had an STR crossram for a 440 back in the day. I called Edelbrock to ask what I should try for carbs (I was thinking crossram Hemi Holleys). The guy I talked to there said to sell the STR to a guy with a show car and buy a TM7 (Tarantula) and a 4781 850DP Holley. He said the TM7 850 combo was a lot cheaper and worth 10 HP over the STR without the drivability issues of the STR. He said I would hate the STR lol. I could have issues with fuel puddling, plenum explosions and broken lids. IIRC he said it wouldn't be happy below 3500 RPM, it would be all over before 6500 RPM and don't even try to use it without the Baddest MSD ignition available. Sooo I sold the STR unused to guy that was putting a 440 into a 57 Chevy (Honest, I couldn't make this up!) and bought the TM7 and 4781. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

Page 2 of 3

1

2

3

Moderated by Al_Alguire, Hotwheelsjr, moparts, not_a_charger, RangerDan440, tboomer

Hop To

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1