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so much info on EFI. What to choose
#3089290
10/26/22 09:21 AM
10/26/22 09:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,893
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,893
Athens, Greece
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I went from a Torker 440 with an 800 Holley to a Performer RPM with a 750 Edelbrock 20 yrs ago. Then about 10 years ago I swapped out to a CH28 Dual 500 Eddy setup and have been happy with low rpm torque response. Now I wanna go to EFI. I have a friend who wants me to go Holley Sniper route. I kinda wanna keep the look of Dual TBI for that aggressive underhood apearance but will sacrifice the look for performance and thats why I kinda like the Edelbrock Pro Flo4 XT. I will go the route of replacing the fuel tank with an appropriate tank with an interior fuel pump and a return line. I did some forum searches and found that the electrical wiring is finicky with the sniper, I am also reading you need to have a stout wiring system and grounds. I have that covered in all respects with grounds everywhere, 100a Delco Remy alternator single wire. I have xenon bulbs complete with ballasts and the factory mechanical clutch fan and an aftermarket 12" Hayden pusher fan which I turn on when I need. I have a cassette deck and two 6x9 speakers. The symphony is under the hood.
She's a weekend driver, Isky 280 Megacam, 2200 stall converter, 3.55s with Gear Vendors OD. 10.5:1 w/ aluminum RPM heads. Going from HP Man's to Hedman shorties this coming winter.
Side note...I had a 505 that I was building but a forest fire ended those dreams. The crankshaft is toast and therefore the engine block is also. I do have the parts from that engine build (they were in another storage area) and don't know if installing the B&M 3000 Holeshot, the 540 Roller Hydraulic camshaft and lifters (no way are the stock springs on the RPM heads gonna work with this), and roller timing chain....how well it would work with the EFI.
I dropped quite a bit of info in this but I would rather be clear than not
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: so much info on EFI. What to choose
[Re: Pyper70]
#3089368
10/26/22 01:24 PM
10/26/22 01:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
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I would call FITECH and look at Holley EFI (both companies) for dual throttle bodies, both dry and wet (with injectors inside of them). I bought and installed a Holley dual dry throttle body system for one of my local customers that wanted it for his 571 C.I. street hemi motor, I bought a KB Stage 5 dual inline intake that is made mainly for EFI systems, I can't remember who I had set that intake up for the direct port injectors  That motor made 799.6 HP at 6500 RPM and more torque than HP, good vacuum at idle 900RPM and it idled like your grandpa motorhome motor home did  Throttle injectors supposedly don't like dual plane intakes like yours  The direct port systems don't know what type of intake you're using, I would go with the direct port injectors on your intake and run both throttle bodies hook up 1 to 1 That type system is a lot more tunable also   IHTHs 
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/26/22 07:08 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: so much info on EFI. What to choose
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3089380
10/26/22 02:04 PM
10/26/22 02:04 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
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Just an opinion but I would prefer carbs over dual throttle body injection.
I went to Holley EFI/Multi-port but only because I wanted to run it on E85.
69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
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Re: so much info on EFI. What to choose
[Re: AndyF]
#3089403
10/26/22 03:21 PM
10/26/22 03:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021
Tulsa OK
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You might consider having fuel rails put on your current manifold and run two 4 barrel throttle bodies. You would have port injection and dual throttle bodies. I run a setup like this but on an old Holley Pro Dominator tunnel ram. I think that would get you the best performance, I do not know how it would work out from a money standpoint. In 2017 it cost me $450 to have my intake modified for fuel injectors and -8 fuel rails.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: so much info on EFI. What to choose
[Re: Pyper70]
#3089449
10/26/22 05:42 PM
10/26/22 05:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 154
Canada
cuda499
member
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member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 154
Canada
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I went from a Torker 440 with an 800 Holley to a Performer RPM with a 750 Edelbrock 20 yrs ago. Then about 10 years ago I swapped out to a CH28 Dual 500 Eddy setup and have been happy with low rpm torque response. Now I wanna go to EFI. I have a friend who wants me to go Holley Sniper route. I kinda wanna keep the look of Dual TBI for that aggressive underhood apearance but will sacrifice the look for performance and thats why I kinda like the Edelbrock Pro Flo4 XT. I will go the route of replacing the fuel tank with an appropriate tank with an interior fuel pump and a return line. I did some forum searches and found that the electrical wiring is finicky with the sniper, I am also reading you need to have a stout wiring system and grounds. I have that covered in all respects with grounds everywhere, 100a Delco Remy alternator single wire. I have xenon bulbs complete with ballasts and the factory mechanical clutch fan and an aftermarket 12" Hayden pusher fan which I turn on when I need. I have a cassette deck and two 6x9 speakers. The symphony is under the hood.
She's a weekend driver, Isky 280 Megacam, 2200 stall converter, 3.55s with Gear Vendors OD. 10.5:1 w/ aluminum RPM heads. Going from HP Man's to Hedman shorties this coming winter.
Side note...I had a 505 that I was building but a forest fire ended those dreams. The crankshaft is toast and therefore the engine block is also. I do have the parts from that engine build (they were in another storage area) and don't know if installing the B&M 3000 Holeshot, the 540 Roller Hydraulic camshaft and lifters (no way are the stock springs on the RPM heads gonna work with this), and roller timing chain....how well it would work with the EFI.
I dropped quite a bit of info in this but I would rather be clear than not
There is a lot of good systems out there. If its an OEM engine that makes over 10 inches of vacuum then FI tech might be an option, but i wouldn't suggest them by any means. I put a Holley dominator on mine, lots of guys around my area running their systems and are familiar with them. The Holley snipers seem to be hit and miss with RF interference, but work great when they work.
Last edited by cuda499; 10/26/22 05:44 PM.
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Re: so much info on EFI. What to choose
[Re: Bad340fish]
#3089455
10/26/22 06:02 PM
10/26/22 06:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,893
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,893
Athens, Greece
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You might consider having fuel rails put on your current manifold and run two 4 barrel throttle bodies. You would have port injection and dual throttle bodies. I run a setup like this but on an old Holley Pro Dominator tunnel ram. I think that would get you the best performance, I do not know how it would work out from a money standpoint. In 2017 it cost me $450 to have my intake modified for fuel injectors and -8 fuel rails. If I lived in the US I could probably find a reputable shop to do that kinda work but I live in Greece and I can't trust a shop to that level. Plus its theory, its piecing together injectors,throttle bodies and software while basically making it a frankenstein situation. I prefer a bolt on application that the manufacturer can't turn around and say "its not our product's fault because you aren't using our dedicated manifold/injectors/TBI"
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: so much info on EFI. What to choose
[Re: AndyF]
#3089457
10/26/22 06:04 PM
10/26/22 06:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,893
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,893
Athens, Greece
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The Holley Sniper is a really good product and Holley has continued to expand the product line so now it is a complete bolt on kit including the ignition system. You do need some computer knowledge to install the Sniper. If you aren't up to speed on how find files on a hard drive or move files from the internet to a SD card then you'll need help. You'll need a Windows laptop so you can interface to the Sniper and program it. The Sniper electrical install can be tricky, especially on a Mopar. There are several ways to solve the puzzle of IGN 1 and IGN 2 so if you decide to go that way just post a question. I have various Sniper install and tuning videos on my website and youtube channel. I was a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer in the past, mostly forgotten but I remember some stuff. I build PCs and tinker with electronics. This isn't a problem for me.
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: so much info on EFI. What to choose
[Re: INTMD8]
#3089459
10/26/22 06:09 PM
10/26/22 06:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,893
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
OP
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,893
Athens, Greece
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Just an opinion but I would prefer carbs over dual throttle body injection.
I went to Holley EFI/Multi-port but only because I wanted to run it on E85. I am trying to get the most out of my weekend bruiser. My fuel has consistently been over $7 a gallon here in Greece. This last weekend I killed a battery cranking for 30 minutes, removing fuel inlet pipes and filling fuel bowls with a syringe. Using starter fluid and constant cranking. I finally caught a lucky break and she kicked over....In the winter she can sit for a month and I can giver her 2 pumps and turn the key and she fires right up but the Summer was very hot here and even in my garage, the fuel evaporate after a weeks time. They are forcing me to go from Hoistorical plates to State plates and my registration goes from $40 a year to $1800 a year. So I might as well make use of the State plates and travel more with my car, get some better fuel numbers 
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: so much info on EFI. What to choose
[Re: Pyper70]
#3089482
10/26/22 07:23 PM
10/26/22 07:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,998
Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,998
Oregon
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The Holley Sniper is a really good product and Holley has continued to expand the product line so now it is a complete bolt on kit including the ignition system. You do need some computer knowledge to install the Sniper. If you aren't up to speed on how find files on a hard drive or move files from the internet to a SD card then you'll need help. You'll need a Windows laptop so you can interface to the Sniper and program it. The Sniper electrical install can be tricky, especially on a Mopar. There are several ways to solve the puzzle of IGN 1 and IGN 2 so if you decide to go that way just post a question. I have various Sniper install and tuning videos on my website and youtube channel. I was a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer in the past, mostly forgotten but I remember some stuff. I build PCs and tinker with electronics. This isn't a problem for me. You should be good to go then. The Holley EFI system is all based on Windows so you need to be familiar with moving files around, using pull down menus, using a mouse to drag and drop and stuff like that. It is all routine stuff for someone who uses Word or Excel on a regular basis but I've run into a ton of car buys who have no idea how to attach a file from their hard drive to an email.
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Re: so much info on EFI. What to choose
[Re: Pyper70]
#3089527
10/26/22 10:42 PM
10/26/22 10:42 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 620
Deep DEEP SOUTH
LAD 524
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 620
Deep DEEP SOUTH
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Having spent a lot of time in Greece and knowing how consistently hot it gets there in the Summer, it can be brutal on our cars. If it were me, I would go with port EFI with dual (air only) throttle bodies. This will retain your dual quad look that you want, and allow for greater tuneability, cyl to cyl capability and allow for growth down the track. The heat can and does affect the throttle body mounted ECU on the Snipers and FiTechs. Just my 
Last edited by LAD 524; 10/26/22 10:56 PM.
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Re: so much info on EFI. What to choose
[Re: Pyper70]
#3089574
10/27/22 08:57 AM
10/27/22 08:57 AM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 875
Missouri
jwb123
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 875
Missouri
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I have installed and messed with both Sniper, and FiTech both have performed well and since you have the dual quad intake a pair of bolt on throttle bodies would be easy and quick. I would prefer the FiTech for one main reason, it has the capability to set failure codes to tell you what is wrong with it. For some reason Holley systems cannot do this. Failure codes have been with OEM automotive system since the 1980's Holley it is time to get with the program. As a technician trained to work on OEM EFI systems, failure codes are how we fix them. If you have an issue with a Holley system, yes it can be diagnosed, but the skill level required is much higher. And I have very mixed results talking to either companies technical assistance over the phone, long wait times and sometimes it seems to me I know more about the systems than they do. Several times I have offered to email scope traces of the suspected components, and none of the tech people had any training or knowledge on scope patterns. As far as performance it has been shown many times that a well tuned carb will make a little more HP than EFI, I doubt that you could feel the difference driving the vehicle. I would also recommend, when you set up the system use the computer to adjust the ignition timing. The advance curve is a lot more of the drivability than the fuel curve on a lot of performance street driven vehicles, computer makes it very easy to tweak the ignition timing.
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Re: so much info on EFI. What to choose
[Re: Pyper70]
#3089577
10/27/22 09:11 AM
10/27/22 09:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021
Tulsa OK
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You might consider having fuel rails put on your current manifold and run two 4 barrel throttle bodies. You would have port injection and dual throttle bodies. I run a setup like this but on an old Holley Pro Dominator tunnel ram. I think that would get you the best performance, I do not know how it would work out from a money standpoint. In 2017 it cost me $450 to have my intake modified for fuel injectors and -8 fuel rails. If I lived in the US I could probably find a reputable shop to do that kinda work but I live in Greece and I can't trust a shop to that level. Plus its theory, its piecing together injectors,throttle bodies and software while basically making it a frankenstein situation. I prefer a bolt on application that the manufacturer can't turn around and say "its not our product's fault because you aren't using our dedicated manifold/injectors/TBI" You could still source everything from Holley to maintain vendor support. But I do understand finding a shop to fabricate the injector rails could be difficult in your situation. I built my entire system(the ECU was a kit) so I can only turn to the guy in the mirror in most situations lol.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: so much info on EFI. What to choose
[Re: Bad340fish]
#3089581
10/27/22 09:40 AM
10/27/22 09:40 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
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I work with OEM EFI cars as well. Personally rely on data list more than codes (as many issues won't/take forever to set a code for anyway).
Don't find it necessary for aftermarket efi to have this but guess it could make some diagnostics easier.
69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
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Re: so much info on EFI. What to choose
[Re: LAD 524]
#3089597
10/27/22 10:31 AM
10/27/22 10:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,893
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
OP
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,893
Athens, Greece
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[quote=LAD 524 The heat can and does affect the throttle body mounted ECU on the Snipers and FiTechs. Just my [/quote] and my hood doesn't have fresh air induction which might have improved this problem, I would love to install a GM style cowl induction like the 70 Chevelle has but I have done away with the factory brake booster setup and my headlight doors are being converted this winter to electric actuators. I would need to install a 2" electric throw actuator but thats a whole other topic to bring up at a later date. Lets not open too many cans of worms 
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: so much info on EFI. What to choose
[Re: Pyper70]
#3089604
10/27/22 10:57 AM
10/27/22 10:57 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,384
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,384
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Well, it sounds like you have not used one of the current EFI offerings...So there are things to consider.
Self learning
Software update ability
Amount of wiring needed to hook up and install
Throttle body options vs. modifying your intake and adding rails to it....
Ease of programing
Expandability....Many are just a boxed offering and cannot be used but for one purpose, others are not.
I have used Classic FAST, and also their newer TB style as well as a Holley Sniper....
I really like the Holley over FAST for a few reasons....The software is awesome. It keeps the learn table separate from the base table, you can merge them if you want and clear the learn table, which I really like. Or leave it be and watch it build the whole table as it passes thru all the different cells.
And for it to learn, you only need the cursor to flash thru that cell, it does not need to sit there for 5 mins to determine the VE....
You can use a laptop with the Holley Sniper if you want, but most of the base operations are accessible thru the hand held..
I forgot how many wires were needed to hook it up, but it wasn't much, had it running in like an hour.
And the data logging with the Holley is very good, set a sensor reading to trip it, and go look at the logs...Just super easy.
The only thing that worries me about the Sniper is the ECU is built into the TB....The later/more expensive models they divorced it.....If your under hood heat is an issue.
Last edited by Dragula; 10/27/22 11:05 AM.
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Re: so much info on EFI. What to choose
[Re: Dragula]
#3089706
10/27/22 06:31 PM
10/27/22 06:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,893
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
OP
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,893
Athens, Greece
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Loads of information...seems most here have gone the route of FAST or Sniper. I wonder why the Edelbrock isn't on anyone's preferred installation.
What do you guys do for the fuel supply part of the EFI? For those using the Holley, have you purchased the new fuel tank or used an aftermarket sump pump. What size line do you have to plumb for the high pressure? 3/8"? 1/2"? I perused Summit last night and saw some nice tanks from Aeromotive. What do you suggest for the tank?
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: so much info on EFI. What to choose
[Re: Pyper70]
#3089712
10/27/22 06:56 PM
10/27/22 06:56 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,384
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,384
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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So for a fuel system for efi, I really like the Aeromotive A1000....And one of Aeromotives universal bypass regulators. If its a throttle body type system, I return the fuel off the regulator, but dead head it up to the TB for a nice clean install. The regulator down on the frame rail, or there abouts along with the return line, and then up to the throttle body with one line, typically AN08....
The universal regulator comes with two springs one for efi, one for carb.....comes in real handy, and I plumb it all so I can switch between them....My Big Hemi is done this way and so were some of my previous setups.....Full on efi with rails, well, that you will have to do the traditional way...
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Re: so much info on EFI. What to choose
[Re: Pyper70]
#3089725
10/27/22 08:10 PM
10/27/22 08:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,998
Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,998
Oregon
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Loads of information...seems most here have gone the route of FAST or Sniper. I wonder why the Edelbrock isn't on anyone's preferred installation.
What do you guys do for the fuel supply part of the EFI? For those using the Holley, have you purchased the new fuel tank or used an aftermarket sump pump. What size line do you have to plumb for the high pressure? 3/8"? 1/2"? I perused Summit last night and saw some nice tanks from Aeromotive. What do you suggest for the tank? If it is a popular car then Holley will have an EFI gas tank available for it. I'd use the integrated EFI gas tank if possible since it will have the pump and regulator built in so you just have a single high pressure line to run from the tank to the throttle body. 3/8 inch line is more than enough for a street engine. In fact, 5/16 will work for most street cars.
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