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AFB Lobotomy #3081803
09/29/22 08:29 PM
09/29/22 08:29 PM
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West Palm Beach, Florida
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Craig J Offline OP
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I like AFB carbs. I am not sure why, probably because so many people seem to hate the later Edelbrock versions, in particular the 1407 that have a terrible off idle lean spot after the transfer slot is fully exposed but the main circuit has not started flowing.

Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: Craig J] #3081811
09/29/22 08:47 PM
09/29/22 08:47 PM
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Craig J Offline OP
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I got this one for $125 with an air cleaner. I know I overpaid, but it was close to home and I wanted to sell the bling setup on my car that would not fit under the hood.

AFB Carb.jpg20220416_123320.jpg
Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: Craig J] #3081817
09/29/22 09:04 PM
09/29/22 09:04 PM
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West Palm Beach, Florida
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Craig J Offline OP
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The previous owner of my car was very optimistic in his description of the engine, so eventually I got a stockish 440 for it that has way too much piston to wall clearance, but at least it has camshaft bearings that stay in the block and doesn't leak a quart of oil every 150 miles. .




QIVQ1004.JPG
Last edited by Craig J; 09/29/22 09:05 PM.
Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: Craig J] #3081819
09/29/22 09:07 PM
09/29/22 09:07 PM
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West Palm Beach, Florida
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Craig J Offline OP
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I never tried this modification before. In the past I just used a wire in to reduce the air bleed area.


IMG_0955.JPGIMG_0956.JPGECQM2176.JPGIMG_0959.JPG
Last edited by Craig J; 09/29/22 09:08 PM.
Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: Craig J] #3081824
09/29/22 09:13 PM
09/29/22 09:13 PM
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West Palm Beach, Florida
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Craig J Offline OP
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A little more material removed.

IMG_0960.JPG
Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: Craig J] #3081828
09/29/22 09:18 PM
09/29/22 09:18 PM
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West Palm Beach, Florida
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Craig J Offline OP
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A little more with a dremel

IMG_0968.JPGIMG_0967.JPG
Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: Craig J] #3081831
09/29/22 09:22 PM
09/29/22 09:22 PM
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Craig J Offline OP
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I think this will be enough to change air bleeds without removing the cover.

IMG_0964.JPGIMG_0963.JPG
Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: Craig J] #3081893
09/30/22 08:13 AM
09/30/22 08:13 AM
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lewtot184 Offline
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not sure what you're trying to do but the idle air bleed and idle jet size are pretty close on those carbs, keep in mind there are more than one bleeds that feed air to the idle circuit. afb's have more air bleeds and emulsion bleeds than holleys. the main metering on those edelbrock electric choke carbs is too lean. the idle jet should be around .037" but can be opened up to .040" if need be.

Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: Craig J] #3081895
09/30/22 08:21 AM
09/30/22 08:21 AM
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I'd be interested to see what the air bleed changes are worth. I raced my car 8 years with a pair if 1407s. There was definitely an issue leaving off the foot brake even at 3000 rpm. Getting ready to run these carbs on my sons racecar. I've opened up the secondary well feeds. Tried heavy/light air doors. Various squirters. Raised the float levels. Run the idle fat. Never messed with the idle restrictions or bleeds. Never messed with the transfer slot location. At times we ran quick. But not near as consistent as the Holley's.
Doug

Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: dvw] #3081899
09/30/22 08:49 AM
09/30/22 08:49 AM
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This is a neat post!

Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: Craig J] #3081903
09/30/22 09:09 AM
09/30/22 09:09 AM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Online rolleyes
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Originally Posted by Craig J
I like AFB carbs. I am not sure why, probably because so many people seem to hate the later Edelbrock versions, in particular the 1407 that have a terrible off idle lean spot after the transfer slot is fully exposed but the main circuit has not started flowing.



The CarterBrocks are not bad carbs, it's just that their tunes are antiquated and they are much more work to dial in than their competitors. Just like you are finding out.

Can anyone answer why they have never done any updates to their circuits when their problems are so well known?


Master, again and still
Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: DaveRS23] #3081922
09/30/22 09:52 AM
09/30/22 09:52 AM
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lewtot184 Offline
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the size of the idle jet can be a big deal on these carbs. i would think the more plenum volume the more critical this can be off idle. i don't think the passages from the jet to the main wells in the edelbrocks are as large as the old afbs. comparing emulsion tubes on the edelbrocks to the old afb/avs is an eye opener for race builds. the edelbrocks and older afbs have a lot of places where they introduce air in the fuel stream and some of that can be blocked in a race car. juggling the secondary opening rates with the velocity air valves is kind of trial and error. an avs top would make these carbs more ideal for performance, but edelbrock won't sell tops seperately.

Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: lewtot184] #3081952
09/30/22 11:20 AM
09/30/22 11:20 AM
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dragon slayer Offline
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Those holes will disturb the airflow into the primary introducing a side shear effecting distribution, no???? It would have been interesting to see an AF ratio before and after mod. Including cylinder to cylinder on a dyno. Carter and the OEM had a lot of different strategies with the AFB. For some of the Chevy versions the anti perc tube was hidden and not exposed above the top.

Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: Craig J] #3082024
09/30/22 03:34 PM
09/30/22 03:34 PM
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NE Ohio
DoubleD Offline
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changing to adjustable air bleeds is not complicated on an AFB

AFB1.jpg
Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: DaveRS23] #3082039
09/30/22 05:52 PM
09/30/22 05:52 PM
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hysteric Offline
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Originally Posted by DaveRS23
Originally Posted by Craig J
I like AFB carbs. I am not sure why, probably because so many people seem to hate the later Edelbrock versions, in particular the 1407 that have a terrible off idle lean spot after the transfer slot is fully exposed but the main circuit has not started flowing.



The CarterBrocks are not bad carbs, it's just that their tunes are antiquated and they are much more work to dial in than their competitors. Just like you are finding out.

Can anyone answer why they have never done any updates to their circuits when their problems are so well known?


The issue with the late Federal Mogul and Edelbrock 750 carbs is they use the wrong length booster in the primary. If you look at an earlier "correct" Carter 750 you will notice the booster is longer and that places the booster where it actually needs to be which is just after the minimum restriction of the venturii. I have swapped boosters and logged where they begin to flow after the transfer slot slows stops and from memory its was around 500 rpm so thats where the dreaded lean issue comes from. You can raise the float level a little to get the primary booster to flow sooner.

If it were me I would make them have 4 transfer slots 2 pump shot wells and convert them to solid fuel metering. win win win.


Last edited by hysteric; 09/30/22 05:57 PM.
Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: DoubleD] #3082041
09/30/22 05:52 PM
09/30/22 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleD
changing to adjustable air bleeds is not complicated on an AFB


Yep that's how its done.

Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: DoubleD] #3082107
09/30/22 11:07 PM
09/30/22 11:07 PM
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West Palm Beach, Florida
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Craig J Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DoubleD
changing to adjustable air bleeds is not complicated on an AFB


Can you change all of them without removing the cover?

Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: dragon slayer] #3082109
09/30/22 11:14 PM
09/30/22 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by dragon slayer
Those holes will disturb the airflow into the primary introducing a side shear effecting distribution, no???? It would have been interesting to see an AF ratio before and after mod. Including cylinder to cylinder on a dyno. Carter and the OEM had a lot of different strategies with the AFB. For some of the Chevy versions the anti perc tube was hidden and not exposed above the top.


I am not sure.... the holes are big, but are also significantly offset from the main airflow. I suppose the hole could be covered but that was never my intention.

Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: Craig J] #3082123
10/01/22 07:23 AM
10/01/22 07:23 AM
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lewtot184 Offline
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Originally Posted by Craig J
Originally Posted by dragon slayer
Those holes will disturb the airflow into the primary introducing a side shear effecting distribution, no???? It would have been interesting to see an AF ratio before and after mod. Including cylinder to cylinder on a dyno. Carter and the OEM had a lot of different strategies with the AFB. For some of the Chevy versions the anti perc tube was hidden and not exposed above the top.


I am not sure.... the holes are big, but are also significantly offset from the main airflow. I suppose the hole could be covered but that was never my intention.
i think the real issues with the added holes is the chance of dirt getting in the air bleed. the added holes really are of no value. plugged/dirty air bleeds make the engine run poorly.

the primary booster actually has two air bleeds that influence low rpm operation. there should be a small brass air bleed on the side of the booster that runs in conjunction with the one on top of the booster.

Last edited by lewtot184; 10/01/22 07:26 AM.
Re: AFB Lobotomy [Re: Craig J] #3082289
10/01/22 04:08 PM
10/01/22 04:08 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Why did you do this? confused


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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