Does anyone know the month, year and name of the magazine in the A12 Playground Registry Road Tests, which features an A12 Road Runner test titled "The Original Hot Rod Test" and "The Original 440 6-BBL Drag Test"?
Also if anyone can give me references for any magazines over the years, be it recent or "back in the day" with original tests or restorations of A12 Road Runners only, once again with magazine name, month and year it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for any help you can offer.

Try looking up “Six Pack to Go”. That one was a look back at the original article on the Ronnie Sox A12 test. I’m going to say that one came out 20 years ago.

Some links over on the A12 Registry, you may have already seen?

http://sixpacksixbbl.homestead.com/a12roadtests.html

http://a12mopar.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=print

http://a12mopar.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=print/40

http://a12mopar.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1232584911

Drag Racing Magazine June 1969 I think was really the first test of the A12 or co-happened at or about the same time as the Six Pack To Go Y'all, A12 Road Runner/Ronnie Sox versus the magazine editors?

http://sixpacksixbbl.homestead.com/a12roadtestspage12.html



LOVE this homologation story about the A12 and the NHRA and especially the bad@$$ driver of the Gratiot A12 Road Runner Lou Mancini

http://a12mopar.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1514655330

Mike

Super Stock & Drag Illustrated, June 1969 ==> http://sixpacksixbbl.homestead.com/a12roadtestspage12.html

I don't have my A12 RR any longer , but I still have a copy of that magazine I picked up years ago which is kept in a Zip-Loc bag

Ro McGonegal also wrote an article a couple(?) of decades later giving more background on the whole SS&DI article, including what the factory "may" have done to the pre-production car to give it a leg up on a true off-the-showroom-floor car. I had a copy of one of the magazines in which that article was published, but think it was pitched during The Great Car Magazine Purge years ago... can't find a link online to it, either.

Thanks for all the help. The magazine title, issue number and date i'm after is: http://a12mopar.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1232584911. i'm looking to purchase this book and any others from back in the day or recent restoration articles of A12 Road Runners only. If any of you have issues you would sell, let me know, i have already purchased a few featured on the A12 Play Ground through Ebay
Cheers

At one point I had a number of magazines w/ articles on the A12 RR & SB. When I sold the car and then later got rid of years of magazines I'd kept, I probably tossed most of them. I'll look and see if I kept anything besides that one SS&DI issue, for reference, if nothing else.

A12 - your inbox is full.

Nice picture of that A12 at Indy.

Sure is


Transman try again, hopefully I deleted enough?

Mike

How about a couple more?

Mike

x

Brett, I searched for the cover of the Hot Rod Magazine article on the re-visit to the original Super Stock and Drag Illustrated (June 1969 issue) and sorry but no luck so far. I know I have it in a "safe" place, so safe even I can't find it , I looked at the properties of the scanned images (I posted in the A12 Registry) and see Febuary 15, 2004 so I'm guessing the Hot Rod issue with the behind the scenes on the original '69 Ronnie Sox/magazine editors drag test is somewhere around there?? Here are some scans of those articles:

Mike

Here's the Super Stock Drag Illustrated June 1969 article:

Mike

If they would just remove those two, 2-SEAT SPORTS CARS from the list guess what would be at the top of the list of quickest MID-SIZE, 5/6 PASSENGER, STEEL BODY, MUSCLE CARS! (Ok, I'm ready for the from you Vette and Dorf Cobra kit SPORTS CAR LOVERS )

(And sure it should "maybe" have been on the bottom "ringer" list but then again so should a lot of those cars on the top list like maybe the TWO, 2-SEAT, FIBERGLASS AND ALUMINUM, SPORTS CARS

Mike

Mike - Yep, that's the other article I mentioned. It was published originally in Hot Rod, but I also saw it show up in another publication some years later. I don't think I have my original any longer, but you got the details right there.

Look at those pics from Cecil County in that article: everybody is wearing jackets and the trees haven't got any leaves on them. It was still late winter or really early spring when they ran that test and I'm guessing the air was killer that day.

That same car was tested later that year by some other long-forgotten car magazine and they were nowhere near the MPH the SS&DI crew saw on that day at CC. The other tests were done at Suffolk Raceway in SE Virginia, which was also right on the coast and had a number of records set there. But if the SS&DI test was Feb / March and the other magazine was in the summer, that's a major difference in atmospheric conditions.

(((EDIT)))

Brad for some reason I think this may have been the very first magazine test or maybe at the least the first to hit the newsstands ?? EDIT I'm wrong about this as I just read where they say this "This was proven LATER at Cecil County Drag-O-Way where in 36* degree weather (proves your point about the temps that day ) , at a weight of 3765 pounds, (now how much do the aluminum Cobra and Vette fiberglass body cars weigh?, another dig sorry ) he cranked 12.98 - 111.66. So this test had to have been after the CC DOW test.

Mike

I'm pretty sure it was Speed and Supercar magazine in their Oct 1969 issue that had the test of the same car used at Cecil County and could only manage a 13.88 at 106.13. I can only find a reference to it, but not the actual article, unfortunately.

Brad, I think I have it and will post it later.....................(heading to the Penton Owners meeting )

Mike

Thanks for all the replies and effort you have put in with this!! much appreciated. Further to my post, does anyone know if HOT ROD magazine did a feature / test or anything on the 69 A12 Road Runner only, back in 1968 / 69 and not the later article i have been looking for? If so would you know the month and year and also the same for Car Craft Magazine. The later Registry featured article is proving hard to find. Thanks again

Brett, I don't think Hot Rod mag did a feature on the A12 back in the day, could be wrong but I have never seen one? BUT this photo did show up in Hot Rod magazine BUT again I think it was in a much later issue in I think a "looking back" type last page article. But that might mean it was a photo from an article from back so now you have me needing to research that

Mike

Okay here's one that I get a chuckle out of because of what Buddy Martin is captured by the camera checking out.

Again another "Hot Rod Magazine" HRM image of an A12 Road Runner

Mike

Brad, is this the article you're thinking about? I have the original "back in the day" magazine and article somewhere but this is a "retro" of it done much later but it seems to be for the most part a reprint of the original mag test.

Mike

So are we saying there may be a back in the day Hot Rod article, although it's the same as the Super Stock magazine article that i have purchased? Once again thanks for the help guys.

Mike - The one I was thinking of definitely talked about taking it to Suffolk Raceway, but that one above just mentions playing on the streets of NYC with it. Unless there's more to the article than you posted, I don't know if it's the same one. I don't see a magazine name or issue date on the pics to compare, either.

The rest of the article Brad,

(what's the arrow about? For me when I was trying to figure if that might be an alarm key switch like I had back in '72 on my van I used for mx racing? Figured seeing the car was in NYC and the story of the Ronnie Sox A12 getting the hood, intake and carbs "stolen" thought maybe someone put an alarm on it that were key activate back in the day? The other arrow is for confirming it had a radio, long story.

Mike

Brad, one thing that has always been confusing when discussions about all of those A12 RR's being the same car is that none of them had the same factory "MANUFACTURE" license plate??? I know that when we would issue a manufacture plate to a bike for anything from a magazine test to demo ride bikes to VIP loans the same plate stayed with the same bike. I don't see Chrysler, even if they brought it back to get it ready for another magazine test, issuing another plate. Here's one (First image) with the 17M 737 manufacture's plate from a factory media photo when it still body color steel wheels. This should have been weeks or maybe a month or two before the magazine test that had the original media issued 17M 737 plate on the (2nd image front). Thinking there were two possibly three A12 RED R4 test cars for those magazines.

Mike

Brad were any of these your old A12?

The articles were written in 69, why does the one engine picture in color show the pass side breather and center carb vent used on 70 and later ?

Transman, I think that might be a media department supplied photo as that engine isn't even in a car. It looks like someone installed the valve covers on the wrong sides

I have a factory media 8x10 black and white photo for the A12 Road Runner. Here is a scan of it, the original is so sharp you can read the carb number and date code along with the Delco Remy high idle solenoid part number, etc.,

Mike

Love this article and how Dick Maxwell and Tom Hoover played the NHRA when they approved that Vette that Dick and Tom knew GM didn't have the number of cars delivered or even produced to get the certification/homologation approval. Dick Maxwell told me this back when I first got my A12 RR. Dick also told me about how he got the lift-off-hood approved for production, with no hinges or no way to open and close the scoop for bad weather (rain, snow) by proving the engine would not be affected and shut down or have problems. Dick proved it to upper management by putting the A12 car's rear wheels on rollers, having someone hold the rpm at half throttle on the rollers, he told management the half throttle rpm was because no one would drive the car with this much power in the rain any higher then that. Then Dick and another person sprayed the front of the car with garden hoses for 30 minutes. This is the God honest truth that Dick Maxwell told me this. Some may not know this but Dick Maxwell (IMO) was the father of the A12 package and he told me it was his Woodward car and daily driver. (RIP Dick).

Those magazine cars were called long lead press cars. LLPC They were one level up from per-production prototypes. PPP The pre-production prototypes did not have a conventional vin, however some of the long lead press cars could have had vin if it was made from a production car. That did happen when building the "mule". They still build mules today. Driving the interstates of MI around Detroit has produced some interesting pics. Dodge Ramcharger 2 door mule in the 90's headed toward the proving grounds on a open trailer was one. PPP Buick Rivera another - being driven in the rain with 2 suits in the car etc. I knew a driver who hauled mules for GM so i got to see what was in the trailer when our paths crossed on the interstate, and i spent time in the big 3 manufacturing plants and some of their skunk-works facilities. Saturn R&D as well. Typical LLPC did not have a regular vin and were built typically before March for use in the spring by the press. A couple cars over the years that were LLPC's did escape - one valiant and one imperial so far. Magazines had long lead times in those days. Manufacture's plate is like a dealer plate. Those cars did not come with a title....

I know this from correspondence with those famous magazine names in those articles when i went looking for the 1972 440+6 Road Runner Magazine test car

Mike:
1. Yes, that's the article; part of the confusion on my part was they tested at Suffolk County Raceway (NY), not Suffolk Raceway (VA) which closed in the early '90s
2. That magazine article did say it was the same car Ronnie Sox tested, FWIW
3. Yes, those are pics of my old A12 RR... you're killing me! But thanks for the shots, since I don't know where my originals of those are today.

My question is the fact that this article was written in early 1969 - the pass side breather has more than the one nipple that the A12 cars had. Looks like at least a 1970 breather. I never messed with anything passed the A12 car so I am not familiar with the changes to the breathers. Was just wondering how they got their hands on something so far in advance of it’s release.

And yes, that is a great shot of the engine.

Sorry Brad and I did have second thoughts about posting the photos of your A12.....................................but on the other hand I did it for another reason too, check out the banner in the background

Mike

Transman knowing what I know from doing EPA and NHTSA (FMVSS) certification, compliance and homologation there is always a minimum of two years of "phase-in" for manufactures to either comply or start to comply with any new federally mandated standard(s). The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards regulation was passed in 1966 so that's why most all of the 1968 "model" year vehicles started to have things like seat belts, collapsible steering columns, the VIN in the corner of the windshield, safety glass, break away inside rear view mirrors, seat back latches, side marker lights and then reflectors and then both a light within a reflector (front amber, rear red and still done to this day that way) . Every safety item was listed on the Monroney/window sticker/label and then as of January 1, 1969 mandatory "head restraints" (head rests). That mandatory head restraint regulation of 01/01/69 phase-in is the reason you will not find a real A12 (SPD 3/29 + 4/26) without head restraints/head rest.

So back to the breather with the multiple nipples would most likely be for a '70 and forward EPA emission regulation phase-in (also of two years) and most likely for "EVAP" or evaporative emissions containment when the engine is not running. You'll see the '70 air cleaner snorkels with the vacuum valves, "butterflies" that close when the engine is shut off to contain the carburetor fumes from going out the snorkels or the air cleaner inlets. Another reason for the '70+ Air Grabber hood scoops to shut automatically when the engine was off, and why the '69 lift-off-hood was NEVER going to be used again. EVAP IMO was the reason there was no (official) 3X2 SIX PACK/6BBL for model year '72 because from what I know about the regulation Holley was not going to modify the 2-bbl carbs for a float bowl that would or could be vent to a carbon EVAP canister for only a few models. I was told by a Chrysler engineer that they had hand modified the Holley carbs and got them to meet the EVAP standards, but Holley was not going to make the modifications cheap enough to satisfy the Chrysler bean counters to go into production especially with all of the emission expense BS they had already had to deal with. Bye, bye 3X2 carbs . Hey long winded again, sorry. I dealt with the EPA, NHTSA (DOT) Transport Canada, Environment Canada, Euro TUV and CARB for over 30 years as my job so there is so much that mostly is never seen by the consumers that manufactures have to deal with and deal with two or more years in advance.

Mike

Thanks for the write up Mike.

Now Transman check this factory media actual mistake :

(hint: it's not the timing spec label that should be on the inner fender near the fender tag that is now on the air filter cover)

Mike

You mean the reversed negative ?

This one has the later center bowl too.

And the missing fuel line ?

That intake manifold looms pretty scuzzy for being aluminum, and not that old. Or is it just the pic?

My friend checking the tire and his brother Al, I’ve heard some GREAT stories with those two and some other great guys👍

Does anyone have any further information on "The Original Hot Rod Road Test " article? I'm trying to purchase the original magazine and need to know the date and year that it was published in. The article was reprinted in Hot Rod Magazine December 1999.
Thanks

Brett, I looked and searched, and I still think the original Cecil County Drag-O-way Ronnie Sox and the magazine editor test was not in Hot Rod Magazine but in Super Stock & Drag Illustrated magazine and the Hot Rod was just a "looking back" at that test. As I said I could be totally wrong, but I have not found any HRM test on that article except the looking back issue of much later which I think may have been around 2004/2005 right before the 2005 A12 Carlisle Reunion?

Mike