Re: Amp Gauge deflects down w/Brake light ??
[Re: Suregrip391]
#306630
05/03/09 04:50 PM
05/03/09 04:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,936
Richmond, VA
VT_Dart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,936
Richmond, VA
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Yup, normal. Any light going on creates a draw, which will make your gauge indicate discharge.
Darrah Heath
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Re: Amp Gauge deflects down w/Brake light ??
[Re: Suregrip391]
#306632
05/03/09 07:16 PM
05/03/09 07:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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everything exc the starter large cable will show a draw on the ammeter and the brakes/horn/dome & headlights are always hot even w the key/eng off.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Amp Gauge deflects down w/Brake light ??
[Re: NachoRT74]
#306635
05/03/09 08:14 PM
05/03/09 08:14 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
If you are still running an Amp gauge, make sure that you have a good fire extinguisher ! I suggest that you bypass the Amp gauge and install a Volt meter. 
NO NEED FOR THAT IF YOU HAVE EVERYTHING REVISED AND BALANCED:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33574.0.html
with everything checked and properly upgraded ( of course after 30 years anything needs to be checked ) you won't need to get a fire extinguisher 
This is false reasoning. You need to wire the car so that a WORST CASE in either situation, IE battery discharge-as when running radios/ stereos whatever when parked, engine off, versus being able to toot down the road while the alternator is catching up.
Years ago, I upgraded the wiring on my 70 car--I'm an amateur operator--by drilling out the connectors in the bulkhead connector and threading no8 or larger (I've forgotten) right straight through the connector.
Back in those days I had a 100W trunk mount VHF (2 meters) as well as a fairly high current "tube" UHF receiver, landing lights (2 -4537's--100W each) and a few other things.
I did have the dash apart at one time and took GREAT care to be sure the ammeter connections were secure. I MAY have soldered the internal shunt, I've forgotten.
The point is this. Overanalyzing the problem, and think claiming that the answer is to "balance" everything does not allow for extreme situations---the very thing that can "get ya."
In this day and age of very big stereo amps, hugh electric fans, you MUST be prepared to upgrade as necessary.
I spent years and years in electronics and HVAC/ refrigeration service, as well as a few years dealing with E911 telco. I have a pretty good idea on how to not blow stuff up
To put this into so many words, your method in my opinion is the wrong approach
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Re: Amp Gauge deflects down w/Brake light ??
#306637
05/03/09 09:10 PM
05/03/09 09:10 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
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definitelly there is no way to make understand to some ppl, HOW electricity works and where the loads runs and stays, and how or wich side must be feeded correctly. The fact is if you have a good alternator, everything clean and tight AND EVERYTHING HOOKED on the right side of the charging system, ammeter won't feel anything so no loads there... just by pass on the right way the bulkhead. Ammeter works allmost like a power valve, so if you feed from alternator side with A GOOD ALTERNATOR ( definitelly not the old stock one, or unmodified ) the ammeter barelly will feel the power going through. POWER goes through ammeter ONLY when batt is discharged and alternator is getting the juice back, when alternator is not able to feed the car and batt needs to suply, OR when you have everything hooked to the batt ( what is in some if not in all cases REALLY WRONG ) and ammeter feels like batt is ALLWAYS discharged, being alternator the feeding source ( if does have the power to ) and making the power running through ammeter ALLWAYS, registering discharge what is not completelly true. whatever!!! Maybe I'm totally wrong after 4 YEARS since the upgrade made on my DAILY DRIVER car and never get heat anywhere with all relays working to A/C, Halogen beams etc... after all I think I'll get the fire extinguisher ( I mean to get a good ornament around )  Please, take good and tested experiences!!!! P.S.: I just got heat and melt on fuse box at hazzards/brakes fuse terminal, but thats nothing to do with charging system/ammeter really.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Amp Gauge deflects down w/Brake light ??
[Re: NachoRT74]
#306638
05/03/09 10:58 PM
05/03/09 10:58 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
definitelly there is no way to make understand to some ppl, HOW electricity works and where the loads runs and stays, and how or wich side must be feeded correctly.
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I have an excellent understanding of electrical systems and how they work. I didn't post this to start a pissing war. The FACT is that if the wiring in/ out of the firewall is large enough (upgraded) if the connections at the connector are good (or eliminated) and if the ammeter is made and mounted to something besides plastic, the original system will work just fine.
The OTHER fact is that for most of these guys the easiest thing to do is simply run a bypass around the problem. Of course now the ammeter won't work anymore, but that can be answered also.
There are at least three specific areas of the stock Mopar system that are lame, and it has nothing at all to do with "feeding" or "balance" or depending on some magic whereby current does not need to flow
1 The stock wiring is simply too small
2 The firewall connector is a poor deal all the way around, and the connectors either should have been bigger or the connector used as a wire feedthrough WITHOUT any breaks
3 The ammeter in most cases is put together in loose form, and depends on the plastic dash itself for the physical mount so far as the nuts and bolts.
A shunt type ammeter (remote shunt) could have been used, but Ford, Chrysler, and others tried these with poor success, because they simply didn't spend enough time designing them. Most of these are "numb" that is it takes one hell of a lot of current to move them
Another souloution would have been to use some relays here and there, such as for headlights and the heater, etc. Once again, though, the deadly FIREWALL CONNECTOR would be to blame.
Nacho, buddy, I know EXACTLY what causes heating in wiring, connectors, and switches. It's called I squared R
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Re: Amp Gauge deflects down w/Brake light ??
[Re: Pentastar440]
#306639
05/03/09 11:40 PM
05/03/09 11:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,822
Colorado
denfireguy
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,822
Colorado
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Quote:
If you are still running an Amp gauge, make sure that you have a good fire extinguisher ! I suggest that you bypass the Amp gauge and install a Volt meter.
I will grant you that a lot of Mopars and other vehicles that used an Ammeter had a potential weak point routing all the power into the car and back out to the battery. The two trips through the firewall with ohmic connections cause heat and increased corrosion if not maintained properly. Why did those dumb engineers do it that way? Not because it was cheap, heavy wiring is not needed for a voltmeter connection. Not because voltmeter technology had not been developed yet, they were invented at the same time. It was because a voltmeter really does not tell you nearly as much as an ammeter does. A voltmeter can tell you that the battery is dead, but you knew that when it did not start. A voltmeter will tell you when a battery is sulfated because the cell voltages increase because internal resistance is increasing. That is about all I can think a voltmeter is good for.
Maintaining the wiring, keeping the bulkhead connectors packed in silicon grease to prevent corrosion and checking them all when you do oil changes will keep your wiring from frying.
If you are putting in a higher output alternator, remember Chrysler did not use the bulkhead connector for alternators with outputs of 60 or more amps. They routed 8 gauge wires through grommets in the firewall on the police and taxi packages and they used ammeters. Fury, Imperial,Monaco used shunt style ammeters that did not route as much current through the firewall.
If I remove my ammeter, I wont replace it. The brightness of the gauge lights is just as reliable as a voltmeter and cheaper.
Also, on an electrical fire, until the current stops flowing, an extinguisher is worthless.
2014 Ram 1500 Laramie, 73 Cuda
Previous mopars: 62 Valiant, 65 Fury III, 68 Fury III, 72 Satellite, 74 Satellite, 89 Acclaim, 98 Caravan, 2003 Durango
Only previous Non-Mopar: Schwinn Tornado
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Re: Amp Gauge deflects down w/Brake light ??
[Re: denfireguy]
#306640
05/04/09 12:38 AM
05/04/09 12:38 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
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totally agree with both of you, thats why I told with the propper revision, manteniance and UPGRADE the stock system is able to work just fine without ANY risk  is noticeable you didn't check the link I posted, specially talking about the 8 gauge wire through firewall "BYPASSING" the bulkhead terminals  I'M TALKING ABOUT THAT on the link  . fixing/upgrading it on a Mopar way 
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Amp Gauge deflects down w/Brake light ??
[Re: Suregrip391]
#306641
05/04/09 10:08 AM
05/04/09 10:08 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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What worked for me was to completely clean each & every connection, run Nacho's 8ga parallel bypass of the bulkhead and keeping my ammeter & adding a voltmeter. running an 8ga(w a 12 ga fusible link) from alt to batt would solve some problems but I've grown accustomed to my ammeter. I dont have any added on electrical draws
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Amp Gauge deflects down w/Brake light ??
[Re: NachoRT74]
#306642
05/05/09 09:27 AM
05/05/09 09:27 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,822
Colorado
denfireguy
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,822
Colorado
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Quote:
totally agree with both of you, thats why I told with the propper revision, manteniance and UPGRADE the stock system is able to work just fine without ANY risk
is noticeable you didn't check the link I posted, specially talking about the 8 gauge wire through firewall "BYPASSING" the bulkhead terminals
I'M TALKING ABOUT THAT on the link .
fixing/upgrading it on a Mopar way
Exactly! I have done this modification to both the Satellites I owned. I ran the wires in parallel to harnesses but just taped back the harness wires so I could restore it to factory if need be. They both went to 200,000 miles before retirement and never went back to factory.
Craig
2014 Ram 1500 Laramie, 73 Cuda
Previous mopars: 62 Valiant, 65 Fury III, 68 Fury III, 72 Satellite, 74 Satellite, 89 Acclaim, 98 Caravan, 2003 Durango
Only previous Non-Mopar: Schwinn Tornado
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