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msd ignition #305469
05/02/09 01:37 PM
05/02/09 01:37 PM
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btomasko Offline OP
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btomasko  Offline OP
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would a msd distributor and ignition setup be a good idea for faster start ups or would it be a waste of money l964 max wedge. thanks

Re: msd ignition [Re: btomasko] #305470
05/02/09 03:24 PM
05/02/09 03:24 PM
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Chesterfield, MIch
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Cuda67 Offline
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I just installed a MSD 6al (only) ignition on my 383. Starts easier and runs better cold. (no choke)
Also opened spark plug gap from .035 to .048. Much hotter spark and plugs don't fuel fowl like they use to. Glad I did it.

Re: msd ignition [Re: Cuda67] #305471
05/02/09 05:02 PM
05/02/09 05:02 PM
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florida
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74fldart Offline
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i also had one in my charger 383 . it is worth it i think. i didnt have the dizzy tho, just the 6a box and a good aftermarket coil. it idled better and started faster.

Re: msd ignition [Re: btomasko] #305472
05/02/09 09:18 PM
05/02/09 09:18 PM
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St. Charles, MO
wingman Offline
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St. Charles, MO
Yes! But most of the benefits come from the ignition box, though. The distributor is mostly there just to trigger the box (through the reluctor) and provide the advance.

I ued to have an MSD Pro-Billet dizzy, but now run my 6al off my mopar electronic distributor and it does just as good.

Last edited by wingman; 05/02/09 09:19 PM.

1969 Dodge Coronet Super Bee 383 A4
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 440 FC7 (sold)
Re: msd ignition [Re: btomasko] #305473
05/02/09 11:54 PM
05/02/09 11:54 PM
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Chesterfield, MIch
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Cuda67 Offline
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If you are using the Chrysler electronic dist and no vaccumn advance. Weld the plates together. The pick-up plate is not held very well and it moves around at higher RPM's and that changes the air gap. I have read that Chrysler dist's are the worst made until you do this. I did it on my cars and they run great.

Last edited by Cuda67; 05/02/09 11:56 PM.
Re: msd ignition [Re: Cuda67] #305474
05/03/09 12:02 AM
05/03/09 12:02 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

If you are using the Chrysler electronic dist and no vaccumn advance. Weld the plates together. The pick-up plate is not held very well and it moves around at higher RPM's and that changes the air gap. I have read that Chrysler dist's are the worst made until you do this. I did it on my cars and they run great.


excellent upgrade


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: msd ignition [Re: Cuda67] #305475
05/03/09 12:06 AM
05/03/09 12:06 AM
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Gainesville,FL
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goldmember Offline
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What is the gain? Have you any testing or just repeating second hand info?

Re: msd ignition [Re: goldmember] #305476
05/03/09 12:17 AM
05/03/09 12:17 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Me or him It stopped my reluctor from getting chipped teeth on my race only dist(stock with the vac adv removed). (& it was gapped at .008")


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: msd ignition [Re: goldmember] #305477
05/03/09 12:28 AM
05/03/09 12:28 AM
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Chesterfield, MIch
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Cuda67 Offline
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It was awhile ago when I read it, and I forget where I read it. Like Robert said his pik-up and relucter don't hit anymore and that has to make a difference. Also I heard the timing lights have a problem with the multi spark. Read that when your trying to set your (2500 or so)the light jumps all over the place,that is caused buy the plate jumping around. I set my timeing with the Snap on advance light and have no problems at all.

Re: msd ignition [Re: goldmember] #305478
05/03/09 12:50 AM
05/03/09 12:50 AM
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Gainesville,FL
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I must be lucky.LOL I'd never recommend a street car with a locked out dist,but what do I know.I've had no problems with the factory distributor thru 7200 rpm and it may be fine higher. Thanks for the info. The MSD box does seem to help idle and low rpm street use but can't find any et difference at the track with a mild combo.

Re: msd ignition [Re: goldmember] #305479
05/03/09 01:01 AM
05/03/09 01:01 AM
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Chesterfield, MIch
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Cuda67 Offline
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I don't take my cars to the track, so I have no way of being sure. I do the things that make sense to me and I read alot before making changes. I have a mild 383 and it seems to me that it runs very well. Best I can tell it runs mid to high 12's by some of the cars I have raced, but I really don't know. It's auto with a 3.55. One more thing. I am retired and have alot of time to play. Thanks for everything. This pic is before going to MSD.

5204053-RtHeaders.JPG (158 downloads)
Last edited by Cuda67; 05/03/09 01:03 AM.
Re: msd ignition [Re: Cuda67] #305480
05/03/09 01:07 AM
05/03/09 01:07 AM
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Very nice pic.I street raced for many years and have been racing on the track for close to 20 years. Yep, I'm close to retired at 45yrs and I can relate. I used to really enjoy trying every combo I could think of,now I tune mine with a laptop.

Re: msd ignition [Re: goldmember] #305481
05/03/09 01:08 AM
05/03/09 01:08 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

I must be lucky.LOL I'd never recommend a street car with a locked out dist,but what do I know.I've had no problems with the factory distributor thru 7200 rpm and it may be fine higher. Thanks for the info. The MSD box does seem to help idle and low rpm street use but can't find any et difference at the track with a mild combo.


You know alot & if fact I have learned alot from your posts. I was thinking that he was referring to pinning the 2 plates together rather than locking out the adv which is what I did(pin the plates) on my stock car 360(stock dist required). No vac adv & it worked good. On a street car I would not do without vac adv but race only it worked excellent.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: msd ignition [Re: RapidRobert] #305482
05/03/09 01:11 AM
05/03/09 01:11 AM
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I could have misunderstood the point he was making.A race car doesn't need vac advance and it's something else to cause a problem,on the street I'll work with it.

Last edited by goldmember; 05/03/09 01:20 AM.
Re: msd ignition [Re: btomasko] #305483
05/03/09 06:56 AM
05/03/09 06:56 AM
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Answering the call of the wild
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ThermoQuad Offline
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Street driven cars need vacuum advance. They usually require a custom timing curve as well.
MSD ignition is a nice system and now they make several flavors, however you still need vac adv for the street.

The only problem with a mopar vac adv dist is the phasing. I have yet to check one and find it in phase.

I respectfully disagree that the timing jumps at high rpms [street car below 6500 rpm]and that you need to lock in the advance plate. Small blocks without a timing chain tensioner may see some timing jump, but that is not the distributor's fault.

An unphased distributor causes all sorts of problems esp at the upper rpm limit. It
is not rocket science to check the phasing on a mopar distributor and it has been discussed before. Check the tech archive.

Re: msd ignition [Re: ThermoQuad] #305484
05/03/09 07:50 AM
05/03/09 07:50 AM
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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Geez I have had my GTX for 33 years on the street and no vacuum advance??
Well for a couple weeks once it had vacuum advance then I got rid of it!

Re: msd ignition [Re: ThermoQuad] #305485
05/03/09 01:08 PM
05/03/09 01:08 PM
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Chesterfield, MIch
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Cuda67 Offline
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Mopar Distributors


Mopar distributors have some inherent design problems that although are challenging can be overcome with the right equipment and knowledge.

The biggest problem is in the advance plate itself, if you disassemble the distributor you'll see how it just sort of floats in a slot. As the vacuum advance unit moves the plate is doesn't stay flat and true, it lifts up and down causing fluctuations in the timing and an engine that just doesn't run consistent.

We have found the best way to cure the inherent problems with these units is:

1. Weld the advance plate solid.

2. We weld in our adjuster tubes and using the set screws limit the total mechanical timing to the appropriate number of degrees to keep your total advance to what ever the correct number is from our experience for your application.

3. Once this done we can then take the distributor to the Sun Machine and start to adjust the timing events to suit the application by carb type, vehicle weight, cam and gearing from the convertor to the tire diameter. At the same time for a nominal charge we can run your box, coil, wires, cap and rotor and let you know all the numbers on your box and coil output up to 8800 RPM or to their fail point. We also test each plug wire for acceptable resistance levels and give you a complete report on your system.

Because we like to use only mechanical advance (Stage 2) for performance applications we can set the timing events by engine RPM and bring each event in at a specific RPM for launch, shift points and reduce the chance of detonation by limiting the total advance and at what RPM this occurs.

These numbers come from about 40 years of tuning on dirt tracks, drag strips and on heated up street cars, these numbers are not pulled out of thin air they come off a spread sheet that records the success's AND failures of all testing done over the past 12 years and probably over 5000 distributors including Ford and Chevrolet.

One other thing we have found in all this R&D that unless your running a dome piston (Greater distance for the flame front to travel) or your motor has been stroked, 34 degrees in a Mopar is about all they need. The plug position in a Mopar Iron head is probably the best of the big 3, it's very close to center (as in Hemi) this characteristic gives the flame front a shorter distance to travel by allowing it to travel nearly 360* from ignition point thereby achieving the maximum expansion point quicker. Timing numbers much higher than 34 are not necessary to achieve complete combustion at the correct piston position 12-15 ATDC and therefore the most power. Remember the optimum pressure on the crank needs to occur at about 70* ATDC

If your running 14:1, aluminum heads, C17 fuel, dome pistons and whizzing the thing to 8,000 RPM you may need more total advance, we can also calculate timing events on these engines.

The bottom line is, if we do our performance curve, phase and rebuild on your distributor they perform flawlessly up to 8000 RPM and for $125.00 you won't find a cheaper or easier HP and drivability bolt-on anywhere. Not to mention the ease of mind you'll have in knowing that there's no detonation going on that your not hearing over the roar of open headers, loud street exhaust or your favorite Tex Ridder 8 track tape.
This is just a quick review of the information available for your ignition system in our 38 page Tuning Guide available Via Email for $10.00. Hard copies should be available in February of 2006 for $20.00.

Click here to learn more about our book.

Of course you can use the spring kit and keep the vacuum unit and do allot of guesswork or have a Buddy sit on the fender with the dial back timing light as you run it down the road at WOT...Yikes...hang on ...NOT RECOMMENDED

We can do your distributor or we have cores here we can build to your specific application for an additional core charge, refundable on receipt of your core.

Some mild performance and stock motors will run better with a vacuum advance unit, give us your specs and let us make that decision.




Mopar Performance Distributors


These distributors are not ready to run out of the box. They have an extremely light set of springs that will bring your timing in at about 1600 RPM and unless you have a 4000 stall convertor and 4.10 or better gear set in a 2600# car your timing is way to early and will cause detonation.

They are a pretty decent distributor and with the proper curve and phasing they work pretty good and can be used for most applications from an almost stock to 11 second bracket car after they are set up properly.

NOTE:
You can not run a magnetic pick-up electronic distributor with a points style voltage regulator, you must convert to either the new style electronic regulator or use one of our Resto Voltage Regulators.

http://www.4secondsflat.com/regulator_tech.html



2 Pin/4 Pin Ballast Resistor


Unbolt the old ballast resister and install the new ballast resistor in it�s place.
Note: The ballast resistors used from 1972 through 1979 had four terminals. The new performance resistor has only two terminals. The two extra terminals fed the fifth pin used on the early ECU; and are not required with the performance four pin ECU.



On the first connector of the new ballast resistor, plug the terminal containing the 14-gauge brown wire onto one terminal of the new ballast resistor. On the second connector, plug the terminal containing the 16-gauge dark blue wire onto the other terminal of the new ballast resistor. The unused terminal on each connector will be left empty. As stated in step #5, they fed the fifth pin on the ECU and are not required on the new four pin ECU.

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