Extended flat torque curve
#3021248
03/06/22 12:32 PM
03/06/22 12:32 PM
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 910 Washington
hemienvy
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OP
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Washington
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Why do some engines have a long flat torque curve in the upper register ?
What engine characteristics produce this ?
Long rods, good intake/exhaust balance, not too much overlap, high compression, maybe these, I don't know what else ?
Sufficient valve spring, fuel, and ignition too, but those are not design parameters.
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Big valves for the displacement ?
Last edited by hemienvy; 03/06/22 01:34 PM. Reason: more info
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Re: Extended flat torque curve
[Re: hemienvy]
#3021271
03/06/22 01:47 PM
03/06/22 01:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,513 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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Boiling it down to the basics.........
The required air flow(and trapped VE) is keeping up with the demand as the rpm goes up.
That can be done by a variety of methods, and/or by mixing and matching different methods.
Different engine platforms need help to accomplish that in different areas.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Extended flat torque curve
[Re: ek3]
#3021275
03/06/22 02:00 PM
03/06/22 02:00 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 713 Lake Villa Il
INTMD8
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It's the combination of parts working together. Wouldn't say it's mostly -cam -heads -valvetrain stability, induction/exhaust flow, or anything else because just one thing off in the entire combination can cause the high rpm VE to drop like a rock
69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
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Re: Extended flat torque curve
[Re: INTMD8]
#3021287
03/06/22 03:06 PM
03/06/22 03:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570 UK
rb446
mopar
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mopar
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And here's a good example of exactly that with VE on our mild 10:1CR 589 wedge motor, 572-13's 365cnc heads, 260/270@.050 s/roller, 440-2, 1.55 Jesels, bit of a mismatch of parts as it came all built/dyno'd but it runs real well with that small carb, the small venturi probably shows up on the ET rather than on the dyno hp. Torque holds on reasonable as well through 1100rpm, it did what we wanted it to do ET wise in the car and then some.
Last edited by rb446; 03/07/22 02:48 PM.
1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990 1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
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Re: Extended flat torque curve
[Re: rb446]
#3021290
03/06/22 03:22 PM
03/06/22 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,513 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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This one has a torque curve that’s within 20ft/lbs for over 1500rpm........
It has all the usual stuff to achieve that. Good heads, nice cam, high CR, stable valvetrain, big intake and carb, good oil pan.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Extended flat torque curve
[Re: hemienvy]
#3021300
03/06/22 04:17 PM
03/06/22 04:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,259 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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Bend,OR USA
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Almost all the pump gas stroker motor BB Mopar V8 I've built, and dyno tested that had less than 10.5 to 1 compression made more torque than HP, especially with iron heads below 10.0 1 to 1 compression ratio My first 400 stroker motor I built had a 4.25 stroke crank with 6.8 long Chinese H beam steel rods with 9.25 to 1 comp ratio 23.0 CC dished pistons with a set of iron 906 heads with big valves, low deck six pack intake and carbs, solid roller cam that motor made 612 HP at 55000 RPM with 644 Ft.. Lbs. of tire frying torque at 4500 RPM I don't remember the exact torque numbers now but we started the first pulls at 2500 RPM and it made a hoop of torque from down their to 4500 RPM where it started to taper off slowly
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 03/06/22 04:18 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Extended flat torque curve
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3021305
03/06/22 04:35 PM
03/06/22 04:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,379 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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Here area few I have online. Not sure what you consider broad and flat but see if these fit the bill. I believe they qualify. We also have one in our dragster that is not really flat but the thing is a torque monster for sure as it peaked at 960 ft/lbs. This engine was within 56 ft/lbs from beginning of pull up til peak HP, 2300RPM Predator headed race gas 604" sheet metal intake This one is 25ft/lbs from start til peak HP, 1200rpm. This one is a pump gas 536" deal. Here is another. 59 ft/lbs from start to peak power, 2100 rpm. 610" Predator with a single 4 cast intake
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Extended flat torque curve
[Re: hemienvy]
#3021338
03/06/22 07:02 PM
03/06/22 07:02 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,489 northern,Ohio,USA
Clanton
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446" 14# 112 LSA .631 lift Edl Vic heads std port,2.19" int/1.81"exh 4.35 bore
Last edited by Clanton; 03/07/22 03:30 PM.
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Re: Extended flat torque curve
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#3021343
03/06/22 07:10 PM
03/06/22 07:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,513 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I Live Here
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Using Al’s criteria of tq variation from the start of the pull up to peak HP.......... the one I posted still fares pretty well.......
41lbs variation over 23 lines on the sheet.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Extended flat torque curve
[Re: hemienvy]
#3021424
03/07/22 12:36 AM
03/07/22 12:36 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,210 New York
polyspheric
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IMHO biggest single source of big dip/spike in torque: strong exhaust wave return at the wrong/right time.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Extended flat torque curve
[Re: hemienvy]
#3021446
03/07/22 09:53 AM
03/07/22 09:53 AM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570 UK
rb446
mopar
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mopar
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Gents, Thank you all, the charts don't lie. "Extended torque" is relative I know. I have an idea about valve sizing. Essentially, bigger engines don't have valve sizes that are proportionately as big as the valves in smaller engines. The dyno charts are good, could I further ask what heads and valve sizes are in those engines ? Indy 572-13 365CNC heads have 2.30/1.88 valves.......
1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990 1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
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Re: Extended flat torque curve
[Re: polyspheric]
#3021457
03/07/22 10:49 AM
03/07/22 10:49 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 713 Lake Villa Il
INTMD8
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super stock
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Lake Villa Il
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IMHO biggest single source of big dip/spike in torque: strong exhaust wave return at the wrong/right time. I agree. That dip on my graph 4200-4500 range I think could be fixed with tri-y's.
69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
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Re: Extended flat torque curve
[Re: hemienvy]
#3021490
03/07/22 12:28 PM
03/07/22 12:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,210 New York
polyspheric
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master
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New York
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During OL, slightly off TDC either way depending on symmetrical IO/EC or not
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Extended flat torque curve
[Re: hemienvy]
#3021536
03/07/22 03:09 PM
03/07/22 03:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,379 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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The dyno charts are good, could I further ask what heads and valve sizes are in those engines ? Two of the ones I posted were Predators as I listed on the post. 2.45/1.84. The middle engine was a 2.30/1.88 B1
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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