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cranking psi question? #300476
04/26/09 08:50 PM
04/26/09 08:50 PM
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southern illinois
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yellowscamp Offline OP
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southern illinois
I currently have 150 cranking psi in my 340 with a comp xe274. I was wanting to down grade to either a xe262 or the xe268. How much of a bump in cranking psi will I get with these cams and what is the max you can get on a iron headed motor with 93 octane before the dreaded PING!

Re: cranking psi question? [Re: yellowscamp] #300477
04/26/09 08:52 PM
04/26/09 08:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 132
Kingman, Az
Scojodak Offline
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Changing a cam will not affect cylinder PSI.


Dakota for life!
Re: cranking psi question? [Re: Scojodak] #300478
04/26/09 09:01 PM
04/26/09 09:01 PM
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Kissimmee Fl.
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dusturbd340W5 Offline
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Quote:

Changing a cam will not affect cylinder PSI. [/quote


cams will change cranking compression based on the different duration


70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake

best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
Re: cranking psi question? [Re: dusturbd340W5] #300479
04/26/09 09:11 PM
04/26/09 09:11 PM
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New York
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Ken25 Offline
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just to throw a nut in the mix, on my 2-stroke race quad i can run 216 psi on 93 octane. my 440 octane is determend by timing and jetting. back it off and richin it up i can run 87.etc.

Re: cranking psi question? [Re: dusturbd340W5] #300480
04/26/09 09:13 PM
04/26/09 09:13 PM
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southern illinois
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yellowscamp Offline OP
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Is there a rule of thumb for figuring this out?

Re: cranking psi question? [Re: yellowscamp] #300481
04/26/09 09:16 PM
04/26/09 09:16 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
No rule of thumb that I know of but a shorter cam like that will probably bump up the cranking psi by 10 lbs or so.

Re: cranking psi question? [Re: dusturbd340W5] #300482
04/26/09 09:18 PM
04/26/09 09:18 PM
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Posts: 132
Kingman, Az
Scojodak Offline
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Quote:

cams will change cranking compression based on the different duration


I was "generally speaking"...

Last edited by ScojoDak; 04/26/09 09:20 PM.

Dakota for life!
Re: cranking psi question? [Re: Scojodak] #300483
04/26/09 09:30 PM
04/26/09 09:30 PM
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Posts: 204
southern illinois
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yellowscamp Offline OP
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southern illinois
what is the max psi A person should go on pump gas?

Re: cranking psi question? [Re: yellowscamp] #300484
04/26/09 09:48 PM
04/26/09 09:48 PM
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Nelson-New Zealand
BIG-MIKE-500 ci Offline
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Nelson-New Zealand
Now lets see; Yes, "generally speaking" changing the cam "will" affect cranking pressure. If the closing event of one cam is say, 13 degrees & the new is 9 degrees, both @ 050 approx,after bottom dead center then you will have more cranking pressure on the cam with the smaller degrees.
Even just advancing a cam on the ajusting slots of 4 degrees can give significant increase in pressure.
I have a programne download from comp cams that has a calculator for cranking pressure; haven't used it for a long time, but when you load all the specs of cylinder & combustion chamber in, plus stroke & bore, it gives the effective cranking pressure to the opening event of your intake valve.
cheers, Mike.

Re: cranking psi question? [Re: BIG-MIKE-500 ci] #300485
04/26/09 10:08 PM
04/26/09 10:08 PM
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Baltimore/Denver
64Post Offline
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One should solve for dynamic compression vs cranking pressure or static compression. There are still other variables to consider as well such as quench.

By using online calculators such as the one below, you can change intake closing points to get the dynamic compression where you want it, then spec/order a cam.

http://www.wallaceracing.com/dynamic-cr.php

Last edited by 64Post; 04/26/09 10:12 PM.
Re: cranking psi question? [Re: yellowscamp] #300486
04/26/09 10:46 PM
04/26/09 10:46 PM
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Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Lincoln Nebraska
Quench or no quench & this calculator may help you. http://kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: cranking psi question? [Re: BIG-MIKE-500 ci] #300487
04/27/09 12:24 AM
04/27/09 12:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 132
Kingman, Az
Scojodak Offline
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Kingman, Az
Quote:

Now lets see; Yes, "generally speaking" changing the cam "will" affect cranking pressure. If the closing event of one cam is say, 13 degrees & the new is 9 degrees, both @ 050 approx,after bottom dead center then you will have more cranking pressure on the cam with the smaller degrees.
Even just advancing a cam on the ajusting slots of 4 degrees can give significant increase in pressure.
I have a programne download from comp cams that has a calculator for cranking pressure; haven't used it for a long time, but when you load all the specs of cylinder & combustion chamber in, plus stroke & bore, it gives the effective cranking pressure to the opening event of your intake valve.
cheers, Mike.




I've been schooled. Thanks


Dakota for life!
Re: cranking psi question? [Re: Scojodak] #300488
04/27/09 12:59 AM
04/27/09 12:59 AM
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Gainesville,FL
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goldmember Offline
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Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now lets see; Yes, "generally speaking" changing the cam "will" affect cranking pressure. If the closing event of one cam is say, 13 degrees & the new is 9 degrees, both @ 050 approx,after bottom dead center then you will have more cranking pressure on the cam with the smaller degrees.
Even just advancing a cam on the ajusting slots of 4 degrees can give significant increase in pressure.
I have a programne download from comp cams that has a calculator for cranking pressure; haven't used it for a long time, but when you load all the specs of cylinder & combustion chamber in, plus stroke & bore, it gives the effective cranking pressure to the opening event of your intake valve.
cheers, Mike.
Your correct and if your swapping the same camlobe familys pretty easy to get a pattern,the problem is the .050 duration is has little bearing on the seat duration,most calculators are pretty general therefore gigo.

Re: cranking psi question? [Re: yellowscamp] #300489
04/27/09 11:32 AM
04/27/09 11:32 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 34
Sydney, Australia
B-STUNG Offline
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Sydney, Australia
There is quite an interesting article that analyses cam timing vs. compression, at the following url:

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/cam-tech-c.htm

You can download an excel spreadsheet that estimates cylinder pressure. With my 541ci RB, using that spreadsheet and associated formula's, my measured cranking compression is actually within a few PSI of the predicted value.

For a given engine, the key determining factor to cranking compression is static compression and the intake valve closing point ABDC. You need to use the advertised value (not the value at 50'), as compression cannot start until the valve is fully closed.

Ive taken the liberty of inputing some values into the spreadsheet for your 340.

Based on the calculations, if all 3 cams are installed on the same ICL then:
XE268 calculated to be 154psi
XE262 calculated to be 158psi.

Remember, this is only a theoretical calculation, and your results may vary, as there are numerous real world factors that are not taken into account. I would be interested to see how well the spreadsheet calculations match up to other users known engine parameters vs. predicted values.







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