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Help me detune this motor #2990642
11/30/21 09:01 PM
11/30/21 09:01 PM
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wine country
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8urvette Offline OP
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I have a 4.5 stoke 55 over 440 = about 540"
It has std port cleaned up VICTOR heads 10.5 to compression
victor intake manifold (soon have Holley EFI (HOLLEY HP) ) waiting on a few parts to arrive.- 1000 cfm throttle body at big injectors.
Full length 2" x 2 1/8" step headers
4 speed
dana 60 w/ 4.10s and 31 x 12.5 et streets

CAM IS ALL WRONG- it is 680 lift, and 287 duration @ 50. Solid roller
It comes on at 5k and pulls way too hard - for street use.


I want this engine to last for a while, i dont want to throw the rods out the side of the block so i need to make less power at less RPMS it also needs to have better manners on the street.

What would be a good cam choice for this motor that doesnt just crush the HP level?
It will see lots of street miles.

Re: Help me detune this motor [Re: 8urvette] #2990650
11/30/21 09:11 PM
11/30/21 09:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,867
Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
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Originally Posted by 8urvette
I have a 4.5 stoke 55 over 440 = about 540"
It has std port cleaned up VICTOR heads 10.5 to compression
victor intake manifold (soon have Holley EFI (HOLLEY HP) ) waiting on a few parts to arrive.- 1000 cfm throttle body at big injectors.
Full length 2" x 2 1/8" step headers
4 speed
dana 60 w/ 4.10s and 31 x 12.5 et streets

CAM IS ALL WRONG- it is 680 lift, and 287 duration @ 50. Solid roller
It comes on at 5k and pulls way too hard - for street use.


I want this engine to last for a while, i dont want to throw the rods out the side of the block so i need to make less power at less RPMS it also needs to have better manners on the street.

What would be a good cam choice for this motor that doesnt just crush the HP level?
It will see lots of street miles.





Talk to Dwayne porter he sell cams, Fast68plymouth is his handle here, he knows what he is doing


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Help me detune this motor [Re: 8urvette] #2990675
11/30/21 10:14 PM
11/30/21 10:14 PM
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Posts: 43,249
Bend,OR USA
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Try having that cam reground by Bullett for your street use twocents scope
I'm thinking around 245 to 260 @.050 with as much lobe lift you can get on a 108 LSA installed around 104 ILC up twocents
I'm not a big fan of that much stroke either tsk 4.0 , 4.15 and or 4.250 stroke with BB Chevy rod journals and 7.1 long rods twocents

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 11/30/21 10:17 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Help me detune this motor [Re: Cab_Burge] #2990707
11/30/21 11:07 PM
11/30/21 11:07 PM
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Lake Villa Il
INTMD8 Offline
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If you're still thinking you might run E85 I would raise the compression.

Where do you want it to make peak power?

For that much displacement I would run a 4500 over a 4150 throttle body.


69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
Re: Help me detune this motor [Re: INTMD8] #2990716
11/30/21 11:24 PM
11/30/21 11:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
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wine country
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8urvette Offline OP
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Originally Posted by INTMD8
If you're still thinking you might run E85 I would raise the compression.

Where do you want it to make peak power?

For that much displacement I would run a 4500 over a 4150 throttle body.


Thanks, but I am trying to go the other way with power. LOL, i want less power for the street.

Re: Help me detune this motor [Re: 8urvette] #2990738
12/01/21 12:55 AM
12/01/21 12:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Retard the cam.. might take a couple of changes
wave

Re: Help me detune this motor [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2990744
12/01/21 01:28 AM
12/01/21 01:28 AM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I agree with Cab. Take some duration out of it to move the torque peak down at least a thousand rpm, and the usable power starting at say,,,, 2200? Ultimate horsepower will drop, but it should be a lot more responsive and you may decide to try taller rear gears since it is a street car.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Help me detune this motor [Re: 8urvette] #2990746
12/01/21 01:37 AM
12/01/21 01:37 AM
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Boise
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Moparteacher Online content
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Boise
With that compression ratio you will need to be mindful of the intake valve closing. Shorten the duration without spreading the LSA and/or retarding the timing events and it may be undriveable on pump gas. What is the current LSA, installed intake centerline, and do you know when the intake valve is currently closing?

Re: Help me detune this motor [Re: Moparteacher] #2990756
12/01/21 07:21 AM
12/01/21 07:21 AM
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Hot Rod Ridge
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Call Comp

Re: Help me detune this motor [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2990782
12/01/21 09:32 AM
12/01/21 09:32 AM
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Posts: 1,520
West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart Offline
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Originally Posted by MR_P_BODY
Retard the cam.. might take a couple of changes
wave

Isn't it "advance" the cam for lower RPM power and retard it for higher RPM power? shruggy twocents
Copper


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Re: Help me detune this motor [Re: Copper Dart] #2990789
12/01/21 09:59 AM
12/01/21 09:59 AM
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Romeo MI
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Originally Posted by Copper Dart
Originally Posted by MR_P_BODY
Retard the cam.. might take a couple of changes
wave

Isn't it "advance" the cam for lower RPM power and retard it for higher RPM power? shruggy twocents
Copper


It will pull power out until high rpm when retarted and if someone wants to do this it would
most likely be in a street ride where you dont need high end power but it will still be lower
in power... if its advanced it will make power in the lower rpm range
wave

Re: Help me detune this motor [Re: 8urvette] #2990813
12/01/21 11:40 AM
12/01/21 11:40 AM
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Lake Villa Il
INTMD8 Offline
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Originally Posted by 8urvette


Thanks, but I am trying to go the other way with power. LOL, i want less power for the street.


Originally Posted by 8urvette
so i need to make less power at less RPMS it also needs to have better manners on the street. What would be a good cam choice for this motor that doesnt just crush the HP level?



Right, and considering the above, that you want better street manners, lower power peak that doesn't crush the HP level, less cam would move the power range down, more compression would retain some of the lost power from the smaller cam while helping power everywhere. (if you're running good enough fuel).


Just changing the cam will get you into the rpm range you want to be (and help driveability) but will drop a considerable amount of hp.

Still, I think it's best to start with a goal. (What do you want to target for hp/tq and rpm range)


69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
Re: Help me detune this motor [Re: Cab_Burge] #2991052
12/01/21 09:40 PM
12/01/21 09:40 PM
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NC
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Try having that cam reground by Bullett for your street use twocents scope
I'm thinking around 245 to 260 @.050 with as much lobe lift you can get on a 108 LSA installed around 104 ILC up twocents

I like the way Cab is thinking. With such a "low" CR, you should run less duration. Now the big CID will allow some duration. I am thinking 255-265 at 0.050"

Re: Help me detune this motor [Re: 440Jim] #2991432
12/02/21 10:38 PM
12/02/21 10:38 PM
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wine country
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8urvette Offline OP
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i will call bullet and see what they say, thanks for the advice

Re: Help me detune this motor [Re: INTMD8] #2991967
12/04/21 12:36 PM
12/04/21 12:36 PM
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Plymouth, MI
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Originally Posted by INTMD8
If you're still thinking you might run E85 I would raise the compression.

Where do you want it to make peak power?

For that much displacement I would run a 4500 over a 4150 throttle body.


X2 on all of this. 10.5:1 with aluminum heads and E85 is pretty low. The current cam in your motor with that CR is one of the reasons it turns on like a light switch at 5k.

I'd pick a HP goal and work backward from there, possibly raising the CR and definitely swapping the cam. I am thinking if your power curve was more linear you'd be happier with it.

If you're going FI, also make sure you incorporate timing control. By pulling timing you could have a more docile street tune and then a race tune for when you want it spicy. Pulling timing on your current motor will just make it even more sluggish under 5k though, so it has to start with changing the cam.


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Help me detune this motor [Re: Blusmbl] #2992037
12/04/21 04:54 PM
12/04/21 04:54 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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I’d take 25-30* of duration out of the cam and spread the lobes out a bit.

It will behave like a completely different engine.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads






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