Body work question
#2985262
11/14/21 09:40 PM
11/14/21 09:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,269 ILLINOIS
volaredon
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,269
ILLINOIS
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this on an 85 D150, 8' bed. I want to do a complete total paint job on this truck. I have some bodywork to do 1st. Minimal rust, especially for a NW Indiana truck all its life. More body work because the old coot of a PO, couldn't pull in or out of a barn without scalping the door jambs, than because of rust.
There is a little rust at the wheel lips, I could certainly buy the repair patch panels, and splice them in/ and finish straightening the cave ins on both sides and call it good.
But, (1) I've done the wheel well patch a few times and can get it looking GOOD and stays that way for only a couple years. not long enough duration for amount of work involved. Every time after 2 years you see the line popping thru the welded seam between original and new metal. Right thru the paint. My son has that on his 99 and he bought it "freshly redone". Looks as bad or worse than it originally did with the rusty wheel wells. I have my thoughts on that.
and (2) I have a pair of rust free, straight, complete bedsides here, whoever salvaged them cut the front wall of the bed, down the length of the bed floor all the way, just inboard of the wheel wells. Original metal from "back in the day". Like I had said, I have my thoughts on what causes welded in patch panels not to last. One of those thoughts is that the replacement metal used in the patch panels is somewhat incompatible, with the original parent material. some kind of reaction between original metal, MIG wire, and the pig metal from overseas that most patch panel material is made from. I have seen many, and done a few myself, trucks around here that have had that area cut out and repaired, (my originals, really AREN'T that bad, rust wise)
Anyways, I have the full bedsides. Went down to Georgia earlier this year, myself/ and hauled them back. It may be overkill/more work than I may "need" to do to make this right, but my plan is to, this winter, pull the bed and set it onto sawhorses in the garage. Then, Drill all the spot welds out of my original bedsides, do the same on the rust free bedsides, and plug weld the Southern bedsides to my original truck bed. No new seams around wheel wells to rust, replacing with original metal, rewelded at original attachment points/ Better, longer lasting repair, right? I am NOT gonna cut my new bed side panels into "patch panels", I want to use them "whole", or not at all. For what these bedsides cost me, vs the price of patch panels, it was a no brainer. and I figure I'll have less shrinkage and distortion to fight, vs patch panels.
Anyways, now that that is outta the way here goes..... I believe the Georgia bedsides may be off of an '88. I know there will be a gazillion spot welds to drill out. I'm up for it. The question comes in, what are the chances that the drilled out spot weld holes will match up, between the 2 truck beds? I had planned to buy a pile of Cleco's to hold the "new" bedsides to the old inner bedsides, and remove them/ as I fill in, and weld up the spot weld holes?
Next question; my 85 has the chrome trim at the top bodyline, and the 3-ish" wide, black n chrome trim at the bottom bodyline/ the length of the truck. My 85 is a 2 tone, white and maroon. Replacement bedsides are 1 solid color, (don't care, whole truck will be repainted after bodywork is complete anyway,) and the truck that the Georgia bedsides came from, didn't have the wide trim at the lower body line. I've seen vehicles that have had the trim clips simply sheet metal screwed onto a panel before, really don't want to do that. The trucks that had it from the factory, had some "rivets"/nails that the clips slid onto and lock into place. What is the "right way" to attach these plastic trim clips to something that never had them?
What I am getting at here, is that on my truck, the 2 tone color change happens beneath the trim. I am not sure that I want to retain the trim/ because to me, that wide trim, [having nothing to do with how it makes the truck look (or not)], is nothing but a big "water trap," holding moisture against the body panels beneath them, and opening me up to increased chances of rusting out down the road. I do like the way the 2 tone looks, and will probably duplicate that with the new paint job. If I don't hide the color transition under that trim, what's a good way to do that color transition without the "benefit" of said trim? Make sense?
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Re: Body work question
[Re: volaredon]
#2985786
11/16/21 02:57 PM
11/16/21 02:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,750 North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,750
North Dakota
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this on an 85 D150, 8' bed. I want to do a complete total paint job on this truck. I have some bodywork to do 1st. Minimal rust, especially for a NW Indiana truck all its life. More body work because the old coot of a PO, couldn't pull in or out of a barn without scalping the door jambs, than because of rust.
There is a little rust at the wheel lips, I could certainly buy the repair patch panels, and splice them in/ and finish straightening the cave ins on both sides and call it good.
But, (1) I've done the wheel well patch a few times and can get it looking GOOD and stays that way for only a couple years. not long enough duration for amount of work involved. Every time after 2 years you see the line popping thru the welded seam between original and new metal. Right thru the paint. My son has that on his 99 and he bought it "freshly redone". Looks as bad or worse than it originally did with the rusty wheel wells. I have my thoughts on that. Hmm. I've never see that on a fully welded panel ground such that there is no visible remnants of the weld. I did use some elcheapo patch panels once and rust started coming through the paint and, yes, that did leave a line. But it was IMHO due to poor quality panels rather than the welding itself.
and (2) I have a pair of rust free, straight, complete bedsides here, whoever salvaged them cut the front wall of the bed, down the length of the bed floor all the way, just inboard of the wheel wells. Original metal from "back in the day". Like I had said, I have my thoughts on what causes welded in patch panels not to last. One of those thoughts is that the replacement metal used in the patch panels is somewhat incompatible, with the original parent material. some kind of reaction between original metal, MIG wire, and the pig metal from overseas that most patch panel material is made from. I have seen many, and done a few myself, trucks around here that have had that area cut out and repaired, (my originals, really AREN'T that bad, rust wise)
Anyways, I have the full bedsides. Went down to Georgia earlier this year, myself/ and hauled them back. It may be overkill/more work than I may "need" to do to make this right, but my plan is to, this winter, pull the bed and set it onto sawhorses in the garage. Then, Drill all the spot welds out of my original bedsides, do the same on the rust free bedsides, and plug weld the Southern bedsides to my original truck bed. No new seams around wheel wells to rust, replacing with original metal, rewelded at original attachment points/ Better, longer lasting repair, right? I am NOT gonna cut my new bed side panels into "patch panels", I want to use them "whole", or not at all. For what these bedsides cost me, vs the price of patch panels, it was a no brainer. and I figure I'll have less shrinkage and distortion to fight, vs patch panels.
Anyways, now that that is outta the way here goes..... I believe the Georgia bedsides may be off of an '88. I know there will be a gazillion spot welds to drill out. I'm up for it. The question comes in, what are the chances that the drilled out spot weld holes will match up, between the 2 truck beds? If they do it probably would be pure coincidence. I'm not sure when Mopar went to fully automated lines but the newest vehicle I worked on ('74 Dart) none of the spot welds on the quarters matched. I had planned to buy a pile of Cleco's to hold the "new" bedsides to the old inner bedsides, and remove them/ as I fill in, and weld up the spot weld holes?
Next question; my 85 has the chrome trim at the top bodyline, and the 3-ish" wide, black n chrome trim at the bottom bodyline/ the length of the truck. My 85 is a 2 tone, white and maroon. Replacement bedsides are 1 solid color, (don't care, whole truck will be repainted after bodywork is complete anyway,) and the truck that the Georgia bedsides came from, didn't have the wide trim at the lower body line. I've seen vehicles that have had the trim clips simply sheet metal screwed onto a panel before, really don't want to do that. The trucks that had it from the factory, had some "rivets"/nails that the clips slid onto and lock into place. What is the "right way" to attach these plastic trim clips to something that never had them? If you have, or have access to, a stud gun (Unit-Spotter), they can weld the studs on for trim cilps.
What I am getting at here, is that on my truck, the 2 tone color change happens beneath the trim. I am not sure that I want to retain the trim/ because to me, that wide trim, [having nothing to do with how it makes the truck look (or not)], is nothing but a big "water trap," holding moisture against the body panels beneath them, and opening me up to increased chances of rusting out down the road. I do like the way the 2 tone looks, and will probably duplicate that with the new paint job. If I don't hide the color transition under that trim, what's a good way to do that color transition without the "benefit" of said trim? Make sense? Put a piece of pinstriping over the junction of the two colors. AMC did that a lot.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Body work question
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2985899
11/16/21 09:20 PM
11/16/21 09:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,625 Freeport IL USA
poorboy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,625
Freeport IL USA
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I suspect a lot of the panel weld seams you have seen is because the shops failed to remove the protective coating the patch panel came with. A lot of shops think that protective coating will "burn away" in the weld process, it does indeed burn away, but it usually leaves a residue that causes contamination at the weld joint. That contamination causes weld porosity which leaves holes in the weld line which is often just ground off and left as is. The issue is compounded when the weld joint is a butt weld, there is a better chance of the holes to exist. Then they cover the holes with filler to create the perfect rust line at the weld seam.
A poorly welded panel joint will show up on every poorly welded panel at some point. There have been a lot of poorly welded panel joints over the years, probably as many poorly welded joints as there has been good weld joints. You will eventually see the bad joints, but the good joints will probably never be exposed. Unless you know the panel has been patched, and the good welded joint doesn't ever show, you won't know it was ever patched, so you only see the bad joints. Gene
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Re: Body work question
[Re: volaredon]
#2986026
11/17/21 11:07 AM
11/17/21 11:07 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,357 central Florida
VL21
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,357
central Florida
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The studs are called weld studs, but if you weren't lucky enough to save enough of those plastic clips that hold the trim on I wouldn't bother, and grind/twist the ones on the cab off.A tape pinstripe will be your friend here. Hire a stripe guy, it'll be worth it. The last of the plastic do dads I bought were like $11 or 12 each, and as you know there are a bunch of them. I believe there is a plastics company repro-ing them now, out of the Tampa area. But they are still not cheap, maybe $7 or $8 each.
If you were willing to drive to Georgia, I am reasonably sure there was a complete long bed somewhere between Illinoisey and Georgia, hell not long ago I sold one (I am a short bed guy and parted out the long bed truck) the cab and front frame stuff was all I wanted, for $200, to make a trailer out of. Florida.
As for the weld seam showing, it is likely poor surface prep, back when I was young and dumb I couldn't gas weld, no wire welder, so I brazed. That generally didn't work out well over the long haul.
It takes gasoline to interest me.
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Re: Body work question
[Re: volaredon]
#2987177
11/20/21 01:54 PM
11/20/21 01:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,008 rust belt
Moparite
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,008
rust belt
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To weld a patch section(around the wheel well) you need to butt weld the two pieces together. This is the correct way and it takes more prep work to get it to fit correctly before welding. Body shops usually opt for the quick and easy rather then spending the time to butt weld it. Also takes more of an experienced person to do it. You can use magnets to hold the panels and tack them or use these... \ These can be hard to use on curved surfaces where a magnet will work better. When done correctly you should not even know the panel was welded. If you are installing a complete panel and don't have a spot welder plug welds are the best bet. So you will need a hole in either the new panel or what it is getting welded to. If that's case you can just use an ordinary drill bit to drill out the spot welds and use that for plug welding. As mentioned you need a weld threw primer not just plain metal. https://www.amazon.com/Welding-Clamps-Sheet-Metal-Fender/dp/B0787XV8SX
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