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Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle?
[Re: cudaman1969]
#2970912
10/05/21 12:57 PM
10/05/21 12:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
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Any and all aftermarket pumps where copy’s of the factory pump.
Not an accurate statement. Both Dailey and Wescott pumps only similarity to stock stuff is they bolt to the same place. Otherwise they are wildly different in design(think BBC pump, or roots style rotors in Daileys case).
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle?
[Re: BSB67]
#2971356
10/06/21 02:38 PM
10/06/21 02:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 8
Queen Creek, AZ
Buster
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 8
Queen Creek, AZ
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Thanks to all who have replied, lots of knowledge here!
In reply to various questions, I'm using VR1 20w50 and a K&N filter (I cut open the PH8A that was on it and didn't find any metal, babbit, etc.) It has a 6 quart pan stamped 854, it's blue and has a decent size dent in the bottom. Can't tell you exact RPM at cruise, trying to get my eBay Sun SuperTach II to work correctly. When I put 12V to it the motor stalls, I'll do another thread about that. Anyway, estimated RPM at cruise 3000 give or take, I get just under 30 PSI in 4th at 50 mph when it's fully warm. (It's got 3:54's, you math wizards can work it if you want to). It gets 60 PSI when I start it cold, it gradually drops as it warms up to the point where it only gets 10 PSI at idle. PSI goes up as RPM does, a blip of the throttle gets 25-30. I honestly didn't think to check the bypass spring. Intended use: cruising and car shows, I want it to be a street car that I can drive for 2-3 hours straight, city, highway, whatever.
Very cool idea to install the HV oil pump by taking the cover off to slip it in and then reassemble, I might try that. But- I don't think there's any doubt I need to pull the pan.
I'm taking another car to a show this weekend, then I have travel plans to drive the Natchez trace in a motor home with li'l sis and her husband, may be a couple of weeks 'til I get serious again. I'll let you all know.
Thanks again, you guys are really helpful!
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Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle?
[Re: Buster]
#2971506
10/06/21 08:39 PM
10/06/21 08:39 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,145
Arizona, USA
gsmopar
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,145
Arizona, USA
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Thanks to all who have replied, lots of knowledge here!
In reply to various questions, I'm using VR1 20w50 and a K&N filter (I cut open the PH8A that was on it and didn't find any metal, babbit, etc.) It has a 6 quart pan stamped 854, it's blue and has a decent size dent in the bottom. Can't tell you exact RPM at cruise, trying to get my eBay Sun SuperTach II to work correctly. When I put 12V to it the motor stalls, I'll do another thread about that. Anyway, estimated RPM at cruise 3000 give or take, I get just under 30 PSI in 4th at 50 mph when it's fully warm. (It's got 3:54's, you math wizards can work it if you want to). It gets 60 PSI when I start it cold, it gradually drops as it warms up to the point where it only gets 10 PSI at idle. PSI goes up as RPM does, a blip of the throttle gets 25-30. I honestly didn't think to check the bypass spring. Intended use: cruising and car shows, I want it to be a street car that I can drive for 2-3 hours straight, city, highway, whatever.
Very cool idea to install the HV oil pump by taking the cover off to slip it in and then reassemble, I might try that. But- I don't think there's any doubt I need to pull the pan.
I'm taking another car to a show this weekend, then I have travel plans to drive the Natchez trace in a motor home with li'l sis and her husband, may be a couple of weeks 'til I get serious again. I'll let you all know.
Thanks again, you guys are really helpful!
Let me know if you need a hand. I’m car sitting one of our C&C friends. If we can get him to pick up his car, we can install the pump at my house.
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Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2971695
10/07/21 01:37 PM
10/07/21 01:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,241
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,241
fredericksburg,va
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Any and all aftermarket pumps where copy’s of the factory pump.
Not an accurate statement. Both Dailey and Wescott pumps only similarity to stock stuff is they bolt to the same place. Otherwise they are wildly different in design(think BBC pump, or roots style rotors in Daileys case). Should of been more specific, cast iron stock stuff.
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Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle?
[Re: cudaman1969]
#2971771
10/07/21 05:02 PM
10/07/21 05:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,108
Chicago Blackhawks
hemicar1971
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,108
Chicago Blackhawks
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Many years ago Brother Inlaw had his Hemi Motor rebuilt from his 1969 RT Coronet. Put it in and never had good Oil Pressure. 35-40 max maybe 11 lbs idle. Tried a pump, tried a shim finally pulled the motor took off the pan, I wanted to see if the clearance between the PU and Pan and if it was too close and blocking oil to the pick up. It was fine. Took a look at the pan rail and saw the 1.5M on the rail. I said to him you got the parts list this builder used on the motor. He had put standard Bearings in the motor. The motor from the factory was all read down 1.5. The clearances on the mains were to great. Pulled a 1010 crank out of the garage and off to the builder and told him to pull a main cap and and start measuring. Yes the crank was down and he looked at us with a blank stare. Pulled the crank out and told him to find the sweet spot to putt the crank out and use the 1010 crank and new bearings and rod bolts. Motor has been together since the 80s with out a oil pressure problem. In my street motor that is about 612 HP on start up it read over 100 lbs cold. The race motor is over 100 lbs at RPM. I use 40 weight. So pro mod motors run 200+ lbs and have a 135 shut off but that is a completely different oil system. Stock pans are not big enough if you are going to use it hard. I never run hemi without a 10 or more quart pan on it unless it is some kind of trailer queen restoration.
1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
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Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle?
[Re: hemicar1971]
#2971869
10/07/21 09:02 PM
10/07/21 09:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
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The pickup screen must be at least 1/4" away from the pan bottom, or it will restrict suction.
3/8" is preferred, but some pans are not deep enough to have enough oil volume above the pickup to keep it submerged no matter what the car does (wheelie, hard braking, spin out). If the oil level in the pan was a foot deep, 3" from the pickup to the pan would be safe.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle?
[Re: polyspheric]
#2971946
10/08/21 08:44 AM
10/08/21 08:44 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,321
VA
dragon slayer
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,321
VA
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The pickup screen must be at least 1/4" away from the pan bottom, or it will restrict suction.
3/8" is preferred, but some pans are not deep enough to have enough oil volume above the pickup to keep it submerged no matter what the car does (wheelie, hard braking, spin out). If the oil level in the pan was a foot deep, 3" from the pickup to the pan would be safe. What is funny about this; is the Service manual does actually say touch the pan. The way the pickup head is built even if touching pan there is access for flow. Most builders do recommend a gap though.
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Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle?
[Re: dragon slayer]
#2971956
10/08/21 09:36 AM
10/08/21 09:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,069
Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,069
Michigan
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The pickup screen must be at least 1/4" away from the pan bottom, or it will restrict suction.
3/8" is preferred, but some pans are not deep enough to have enough oil volume above the pickup to keep it submerged no matter what the car does (wheelie, hard braking, spin out). If the oil level in the pan was a foot deep, 3" from the pickup to the pan would be safe. What is funny about this; is the Service manual does actually say touch the pan. The way the pickup head is built even if touching pan there is access for flow. Most builders do recommend a gap though. The pickups on Chrysler products were designed to contact the pan to keep them from breaking due to vibration. You are correct, the pickup basket is designed to provide for flow when the basket is in contact.
Last edited by Transman; 10/08/21 10:32 AM.
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Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle?
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2971988
10/08/21 10:43 AM
10/08/21 10:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,241
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,241
fredericksburg,va
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Isn’t that’s what that shield on the pickup is for, to touch the pan? Then the screen is up above about the 1/4 that was mentioned.
Last edited by cudaman1969; 10/08/21 10:44 AM.
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Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle?
[Re: cudaman1969]
#2972082
10/08/21 02:47 PM
10/08/21 02:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,069
Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,069
Michigan
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Isn’t that’s what that shield on the pickup is for, to touch the pan? Then the screen is up above about the 1/4 that was mentioned. You are correct.
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Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle?
[Re: A727Tflite]
#3035957
04/22/22 10:53 AM
04/22/22 10:53 AM
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Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 8
Queen Creek, AZ
Buster
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 8
Queen Creek, AZ
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Ok, long past time for an update. Took more than a while to get to this, but here's what I found. Pulled the pan and the pickup was beat up, crooked corresponding to the dent in the bottom of the (non-original) pan,and had some junk on the screen. Glad I didn't just put a HV oil pump on and cross my fingers, but now suspicious of what else I'd find. Dropped the windage tray and planned to Plastigauge some bearings. I'd heard that #7 rod bearing was a common failure (less oil at the rear of the engine?) so I pulled the cap. Bearing pitted and scored, crank scored enough that it catches on my fingernail. Bummer. Took the Plastigauge back to the parts store. It's gotta come out, now it's a much bigger project. Oh well, I'm disappointed but not surprised. This car has a race history and then sat for 27 years before seeing the light of day again. This is the price for super low miles- neglect is worse than use.
Thanks to everyone who chimed in, once I get it out and pick a machine shop/builder I'll let you know how it goes.
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Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle?
[Re: Buster]
#3036035
04/22/22 01:37 PM
04/22/22 01:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,707
North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,707
North Dakota
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Look on the bright side. You found potential problems before you could see the interior of the engine from the exterior.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle?
[Re: 6PakBee]
#3036067
04/22/22 03:30 PM
04/22/22 03:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,480
Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,480
Minnesota
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Well it's a good thing that you found the problem so you can correct it before you did major damage to the engine. Thanks for updating us on this.
Maybe now you want to consider a stroke or crank, some modern rods, and lightweight pistons?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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I've seen and heard of guys at the races use a knife wet fine finish stone to remove the high spots off of the ridges from the bolt marks and have no problems with new bearings on those patched up journals 
